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CreeperVon

Build 77

64 posts in this topic

You don't need planks to make a saw, you can cast a copper or bronze saw and use a stick as the handle.

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ah. I still thought you had to use the scribing table to make a saw plan.I just am living in the past, I guess. 

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I'm really enjoying the new casting and alloying processes.  I'd like to see the crucible report how many units of alloy are present, though.

 

Tuyeres seem to have a damage value, what do they take damage from?  The amount of ore they've been used to process?  The number of times the bellows has been used?  Whereas there's only one kind of bloomery, does the metal used not matter?

 

Haven't tried the new anvils yet, but they look keen in the video!

 

Getting back to the alcohols, I'm a little surprised there's no wine.  Also, as far as a a brewing process is concerned, the type of wood the barrel is made of might be important.  Oak would be ideal, of course.

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Haven't gotten too far yet but I'm loving the early game changes.  I dig the thatch building material and the pottery, but is the ceramic jug supposed to break after you take one sip?  Seems rather...  fragile.

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One sip? thats just bad luck i guess.

The jug can, sometimes, break after being used.

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Now, please don't mistake this as me winching away because someone stole my sweetroll. I played about 4 or 5 worlds until this day, and I'm going into Terra Firma with the mindset, play to play the game. Somewhat like I play Wurm Online. Not to achieve the highest score, level, or get blue steel as early as possible. I play at a pace I'm comfortable with, basically like a sloth "Live slow, die whenever." and just enjoy the game. But the 77 build actually frustrated me somewhat.

 

I spawned in the far north-west, at about +9800, -12000, in a very cold climate between 8 and 11 degrees Celsius. I was already having varied feelings about the 20°C change to grow saplings, and how did all that stuff "grow" here then?

 

And as is often the case this far out, land masses were small, and oceans vast. Unable to craft planks with an axe, you find yourself in a dilemma. Yes, it's possible, but nobody in their right mind would spend like over an hour to swim through an ocean, I think. At this point I'd consider it game breaking.

 

Not enough rocks to gather enough ore for a saw.

No sluice (no planks).

Ragequittingly hard to hit spiders.

Vast oceans to swim]/b] across.

Unable to sleep through the night (no planks/bed, can't sleep on a crude thatch/straw bed).

 

I think the axe change put the difficulty or progression barrier to a level, where the game is not fun to play anymore in certain cases. Now you could say, just re-create new worlds until you find one where you can live, or that this never happened to you. Well, but if my leg is broken and I say I can't walk, it's like you're saying that I should be able to walk because your leg is fine and this never happened to you.

 

I do strongly believe that you should be able to chop a few planks off a block of log, and I'm all for adding the recipe back in. Or, for example make logs work like planks, making the recipes practically more expensive and effort, if you think that adds to the difficulty. Another idea I gathered from IRC was changing the recipes for say, a boat, so it doesn't need planks and you can get off that blasted island.

 

As well as the crafting table, I feel that it eludes reasonable logic. Technically you need it, because it has a 3x3 crafting grid, but I never had to use a workbench to say, nail together 6 sticks to make up a piece of fence IRL. Yet you don't need one for stone knapping, still making delicate tool heads. Where is the much needed believability in that? For all I immerse in Minecraft in this specific regard, you could as well use a log block as workbench.

 

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak for this now, and probably just end up making tweaks of my own, but I'm still wondering about other people's thoughts.

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Is it just me or does thirst decrease a lot quicker now? Could this be related to climate? Do you think it's more realistic?

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Thirst decreases quicker for me too. 

 

However, I do think that the idea that we had a long time back about different tiered beds should be implemented, or at least considered. Especially with the new thatch, I think it could be viable. Perhaps thatch would be too easy of  bed, but it could have it's debuffs.

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I'd like to talk about the new monsters, and how they've found a box of weapons grade plutonium before meeting me.
 
(I love 77, no planks until metal is challenging, pottery is fantastic, everything is really great.. except the monsters)
 
Let me explain deeper, using the Damage Indicators mod as some explanation. One or two mobs would be okay as it is in vanilla, but since there are usually no nearby caves in TFC, all of the mob spawning weight gets shoved to the surface at night where they can spawn, leading to zombie AI lag, 20 skeletons, and much much more. 
 
Don't open spoilers unless you're okay with seeing monster health numbers.
 
The 'Humble' Zombie

  The zombie used to be Minecraft's cannon fodder enemy, but since some vanilla 1.6 changes, it's become one of it's most fearsome, using numbers to overwhelm and their sight range to lock on. Zombies, by default, have 20 health (10 hearts) like most of the hostile enemies, and have 1 armor as well. Their sight range is 80 blocks, and they call other zombies to help them when they've been hit (a random roll EVERY HIT, so punching them is a death sentence.) Your fists do 1 damage.
 
Zombies in TerraFirmacraft have 2500 health. Your fists do 10-12 damage. A javelin throw does around 60 damage. You're NEVER going to be fighting ONE zombie, so fighting zombies is completely foolish now. It takes 25 hits with a bronze sword and 10 with a RED STEEL sword, the best sword in the game, to kill a SINGLE zombie.
 
Damage Suggestion: Weak to slashing, neutral to crushing, strong to piercing (with the reasoning that you decapitate them, but they have no organs to stab)
 
Solution? Do you want zombies to be the mass grouping guys they are, or be tanks in their own right? If you want them to walk in groups and have massive sight range like zombies do, reduce their health by a SIGNIFICANT amount. 500 maximum. As it stands, having more than 10 zombies near you at a door will lag your game due to mojang's 'great' zombie AI. You can't kill them if you don't have metal tools (even then, you can kill about 10 zombies with your bronze sword before it breaks.)

The Deceptive Spider

Spiders in vanilla are an auxiliary hostile mob, climbing walls and (recently) spawning with random potion effects. They don't hit hard, but they're very fast and can jump on you to overwhelm you if you have enough of them on your trail. They have 16 health and no armor. They're one of the weaker mobs, but don't underestimate their small cave dwelling cousins' venomous bite.
 
Spiders in TFC have 1800 health, and have a hitbox that doesn't depict their size at ALL. 18 hits with a bronze sword. They can fit through 1x1 gaps, making early game a nightmare since you can't even make a door. Again, like the zombies, they have far too much health.
 
Damage suggestion: Weak to crushing and piercing, strong against slashing, with the reasoning that you damage their exoskeleton or hit an organ. Sword blows would glance off their tough body.
 
Solution? Make them their original size again, or severely reduce their health.

Skeletons and Javelin Skeletons

In vanilla, skeletons are a fight to be had if you don't have armor. Fighting more than 1 up close gets extremely dangerous, due to their quick firing speed knockback. They have 20 health and do damage based on how close you are.
 
In TFC, which also adds the Javelin skeletons (awesome), skeletons have 1500 health and can spawn with powerful armor.
Their arrows pack a punch, and their javelins will damage you quite a bit as well. Of all of the current TFC monsters, I think the skeletons are the most balanced, only requiring a little bit of health decrease, OR making maces(crushing damage) do MASSIVE damage to them, DnD style.
 
Damage Suggestion: Critically weak to crushing, neutral to slashing, immune to piercing
 
Solution? Just reduce their health down to reasonable levels (2 hits with a steel mace should kill them)

The Adamantium Enderman

Same as vanilla mostly, except for the fact they have 4000 health. Really? 17 hits with a red steel sword? I hope these numbers aren't here to stay, at all. I can almost understand 1500 health for such a hearty mob (40 health in vanilla), but nothing else.
 
Damage suggestion: Neutral to all damage types
 
Suggestion? Their health is WAY TOO HIGH. At least they're not hostile...

The Iconic Creeper

Creepers in vanilla are a FEARSOME opponent if you let your guard down, otherwise they're not bad to kill. They destroy homes, kill players instantly that have lower armor, and cause havoc. 
 
Creepers in TFC are almost a joke. They do minimal land damage (which is ok with me, honestly), do next to ZERO damage, and only have 500 health. 500 is a great number for the other mobs! That's two hits with a red steel sword! Why such high numbers for the other mobs?
 
Damage suggestion: Weak to slashing, neutral to piercing, strong against crushing (or crushing makes them instantly explode)
 
Solution? Creepers need some more explosion health damage (not land damage). One good point blank blast should do well over 750 damage to a player. Their health is perfect. 5 hits with a bronze sword, or 2-3 with a red steel. More mobs should follow this 500 baseline.

 
TL;DR
I'm very satisfied with b77 so far in general, but am sorely disappointed at how unbalanced most of the monsters are.
 
 
Oh, and taking 20 javelin throws to kill a cow or squid is kind of absurd, too.
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Wasn't there going to be a ceramic lesser replacement for chests and barrels in the stone age?  Ceramic vessels do hold objects, but when you place them they just sit there and rotate, which seems odd.  Don't seem to despawn, at least.

 

No barrel equivalent that I can see, though there's a 'Ceramic Pot' and a 'Ceramic Vessel [Large]' in Creative that don't seem to be used yet.

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I'm very satisfied with b77 so far in general, but am sorely disappointed at how unbalanced most of the monsters are.
 
 
Oh, and taking 20 javelin throws to kill a cow or squid is kind of absurd, too.

 

Dang, are these numbers for standard difficulty?  Because I'm playing on hardcore difficulty and I have broken every stone tool against one of those zombies and haven't landed a single hit on a spider.  Does the mob damage/health scale even more with difficulty?

 

I can accept this as "stone tools are terrible," but the tool progression overall seems unsatisfying.

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Dang, are these numbers for standard difficulty?  Because I'm playing on hardcore difficulty and I have broken every stone tool against one of those zombies and haven't landed a single hit on a spider.  Does the mob damage/health scale even more with difficulty?

 

I can accept this as "stone tools are terrible," but the tool progression overall seems unsatisfying.

-------------

Funnily enough, those numbers are for Easy. (health doesn't change per difficulty afaik)

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Just read the latest 77.4 notes and looks like the ceramic jug breaking, spider hit box, and skeleton super-speed were fixed in 77.3 and .4.  Fantastic!

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What is bronze proportion? I've place 3 stacks of tetrahedrite and 1 stack of casseterite into ceramic vessel, fired it in a kiln but it didnt became a bronze... What did I do wrong?

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I think bronze is an eight to one ratio of copper to tin. And I agree about the hitpoints of mobs being too high. It takes away a lot of believability with all the effort it takes to slaughter a cow.

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 tetrahedrite is copper? I thought I was silver.

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it was a mix of silver and copper, now it's copper

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I think that thirst is still too fast, even with the doubled thirst pool. The first thing I do in the morning after the short days (used to play on 48000 day length) is downing at least 5+ jugs of water because I have to, and they're rather fragile.

And, not sure, but I doubt there's a drink that works similar to food, and adds a thirst saturation. But maybe that's something to be considered when introducing thirst, too?

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However, I do think that the idea that we had a long time back about different tiered beds should be implemented, or at least considered. Especially with the new thatch, I think it could be viable. Perhaps thatch would be too easy of  bed, but it could have it's debuffs.

 

I think this is a really great idea.  There absolutely needs to be a way to reset one's spawn, given how far you sometimes have to walk to find any ore.

 

And I agree about the hitpoints of mobs being too high. It takes away a lot of believability with all the effort it takes to slaughter a cow.

 

Killing a cow with a javelin is indeed an exercise in frustration;  with a knife it isn't so bad.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if animals bled.  If they did, you could actually do the cursorial hunting our ancestors did;  put a few javelins into one, then run after it until it drops.

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Were cave spawns changed?  Last build I was able to find large cave systems relatively quickly, but I haven't even found a small cave yet on this build, and caving is one of my favorite activities in TFC.

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Wasn't there going to be a ceramic lesser replacement for chests and barrels in the stone age?  Ceramic vessels do hold objects, but when you place them they just sit there and rotate, which seems odd.  Don't seem to despawn, at least.

 

No barrel equivalent that I can see, though there's a 'Ceramic Pot' and a 'Ceramic Vessel [Large]' in Creative that don't seem to be used yet.

I was expecting the same thing too. I thought there would be vases that would take up a whole block, and would be placeable like a normal block.

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Has Dunk or Bioxx said anywhere if the time system will be re-implemented at any point? I greatly dislike playing at 24000. The day goes by so fast that you can't really accomplish much of anything, and with zombies able to spot you from beyond the horizon, there's nothing much that can be done at night. Between the zombies and the constant need to drink countless jugs of water, I find the early game is really kind of obnoxious and unplayable now :(

 

Also I'll second the comments on caves and such. I mentioned in this thread about surface metals too; between the two it seems that the world gen needs some serious tweaking. No caves makes for boring times under ground.

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I'm really liking the new early game, except one thing.

 

When I started to make my first copper anvil I tried to shape my unshaped copper on a stone anvil to keep its temperature. This old way of shaping ingots doesn't seem to work at all so I had to reheat all my copper ingots just to weld them. Is there something I'm missing or was that working into ingots been taken out completely?

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Early game now with the (seemingly) much more aggressive 1.6.2 mobs is an absolute nightmare.

Once the first mobs have spawned, then there are always "bad guys" around - skellies that are wearing armour, for instance, don't burn - and zombies even if they're burning come at you with a vengeance and set you on fire.  If you jump into water to put out the fire they come in after you and hit you - I'm guessing that if you hit them they'll call their buddies over to join the party...

Also, it seems that spiders don't get pacified any more when day hits, although when I lured one into water it did calm down... (this is at about hour 6/7)

 

Am I correct in thinking that only the spiders head now counts as far as the game is concerned - It certainly seemed that when I was hitting its body there was no effect - I had to hit its head.  Also they move so darn fast these days (or maybe that's my computer being slow)...

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Spiders being agressive in daylight has been an issue for a while.  Typically if you run from them for a few seconds, they'll update and stop chasing.

 

Early game, I just dodge most of the critters.  The only exception is baby zombies since they don't burn, but 10-12 axe blows gets rid of them.  Regular zombies move slow, easy to avoid or run through leaves to lose them.  Skeletons hug shadowy areas, even when in armor and not burny.  Creepers suck, but arent really hard to kill.

 

Admittedly, you can't just laugh them off like you could in previous builds, but I kind of like that.  Tougher mobs add difficulty which makes earning better armor and weapons worthwhile.  And there's always Peaceful mode if early game critters are too tough.

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