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PaoloEmilio

Ingame money

77 posts in this topic

I got the idea of being able to make coins ingame to use for trade in multiplayer servers. They could be made of any metal, resulting on copper coins, iron coins, zinc coins, or even bronze coins, brass coins, steel coins and gold coins etc. To make them, you should need to knap a coin mold, from clay. It can be done this way:

X = untouched

O = Knap out this in the knapping slot.

XXXXX

XOXOX

XXXXX

XOXOX

XXXXX

Then, cook the mold in a pit kiln to have ceramic coin mold. Then, smelt your metal and pour it in your ingot mold. Then right click and put the coin mold where you would put a tool mold wait, and you should have a coin mold filled with metal. Put this into the crafting table as a shapeless recipe and it will yield 64 coins of the metal you chose. Eureka! You made money! (Literally).

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Coins have always been stamped.

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I really don't see the point in this. As hoseja said, Coins have always been stamped, Another thing is, you said that the coin mould would give you 64 coins. How would a mould filled with liquid metal suddenly give you 64 smaller pieces of it? 

 

But back to my first sentence, while coins were used since around 600 BCE or so, I don't think it's necessary to be able to make coins. Bartering works just fine right now in multiplayer, and adding coins would mean an economy which means lots of things having to do with balance, and all the things that make real life economies hard to manage would be indirectly implemented in TFC. 

 

Another point. Why would you want to trade in 64ths of an ingot? That's such a small denomination that it's not really viable to trade in that. And anyway, if you were trading in something with no value other than the metal it's made out of, it makes more sense to just trade in the ingot itself, especially with the small denomination it's already at. 

 

And finally, for me at least, TFC just fits the bartering theme. There are other points to be made about this, but in short, I don't think coins will have a purpose in TFC, and it's just not necessary to trade in coins when bartering is perfectly viable.

 

While this idea might have some worth, if you're essentially suggesting something as complicated as adding an economy into the game, you definitely need to expand more.

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It's a nice idea but monetary economies can complicate things - especially if everyone can mint their own coins. You could simply trade the metal bar directly when you're bartering with other players instead of breaking it into smaller pieces (that could max out your inventory slots).  Alternatively, if your community is set on using money you could use gems since the various qualities of these could correspondence to various denominations. It all comes down to what you and your community want to do.  If you and your friends in SMP want to use something as money in your game and you have fun playing with those rules then it works :)

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Coins have always been stamped.

 

 

Sorry, you are wrong. In Japan they did cast some coin, like these copper one : http://www.moneymuseum.com/moneymuseum/library/pictures/image.jsp?lang=en&ix=20&i=2

 

 

 

 

 Another thing is, you said that the coin mould would give you 64 coins. How would a mould filled with liquid metal suddenly give you 64 smaller pieces of it? 

 

 

 

Well, you can see in the picture that the casting process give a coin tree, so you do not cast coins one by one, so his idea make sense. Right here you have the mold for Chinese coins : http://hua.umf.maine.edu/China/Xian/Shaanxi_History/pages/156_History_Museum.html

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I would love to refer you to an earlier topic discussing this: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/3647-coinage-and-coining/

I think it would be an excellent idea to add coinage to the available technology, especially with the inclusion of metal casting via clay moulds. There has been plenty of detail included by others in this earlier topic that can shed light on how this can be done.

 

As for their purpose, it matter little that TFC features pre-historic and early history tech - Minecraft is a social game. There are valuable resources to trade and services to provide and a developing economy eventually moves towards some kind of standardization. In smaller servers this is no big deal, but in larger ones, it would be especially appropriate to have a currency available to standardize trade; even more so as more and more people advance in technology. Besides, a smaller denomination makes it easier for newer members of a large server to become productive and allows others to make smaller exchanges.

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It's a nice idea but monetary economies can complicate things - especially if everyone can mint their own coins. You could simply trade the metal bar directly when you're bartering with other players instead of breaking it into smaller pieces (that could max out your inventory slots). Alternatively, if your community is set on using money you could use gems since the various qualities of these could correspondence to various denominations. It all comes down to what you and your community want to do. If you and your friends in SMP want to use something as money in your game and you have fun playing with those rules then it works :)

Well, it is true, everyone could mint their own coins, but as metal is also needed for tools and coins can only be minted with clay molds, eventually you will have to stop using it to make potteries and other tools. And its true it would max out your inventory slots, but gems come in many kinds, so that, for example, 10 gems of any kind and of any quality (chipped, normal, flawless...) would take up more inventory slots than 64 coins. And about turning the ingot into smaller slots, I won't trade a full copper ingot for 5 wheat grains. That's why I would reduce it unto smaller pieces.
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I really don't see the point in this. As hoseja said, Coins have always been stamped, Another thing is, you said that the coin mould would give you 64 coins. How would a mould filled with liquid metal suddenly give you 64 smaller pieces of it? 

 

But back to my first sentence, while coins were used since around 600 BCE or so, I don't think it's necessary to be able to make coins. Bartering works just fine right now in multiplayer, and adding coins would mean an economy which means lots of things having to do with balance, and all the things that make real life economies hard to manage would be indirectly implemented in TFC. 

 

Another point. Why would you want to trade in 64ths of an ingot? That's such a small denomination that it's not really viable to trade in that. And anyway, if you were trading in something with no value other than the metal it's made out of, it makes more sense to just trade in the ingot itself, especially with the small denomination it's already at. 

 

And finally, for me at least, TFC just fits the bartering theme. There are other points to be made about this, but in short, I don't think coins will have a purpose in TFC, and it's just not necessary to trade in coins when bartering is perfectly viable.

 

While this idea might have some worth, if you're essentially suggesting something as complicated as adding an economy into the game, you definitely need to expand more.

 totally agree with you there kimbbles, coins and such are rather useless when you can just trade and barter, it just makes things more complicated than they need to be

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TFC? Complicated? Nawww.... X3

But in all seriousness, vanilla Minecrafters might make the same argument about the TFC mod. Some of us just like more complexity, is all. (and see my previous post for why coins aren't useless)

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I don't like bartening. It is very primitive and I would like something more civilized. And as Ardent said, we in TFC look for complexity, that's why we left vanilla minecraft, right? To make things realistic and complex. And coins would serve to make TFC even more realistic.

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Alice, thanks for the links of the coin trees. I wasn't aware that coins were made like that. :)

 

Anyway, while I do like the added complexity and believably in TFC, and more of this is welcome, I don't believe that it's necessary to add in features that are really just complexity for the sake of complexity. 

 

Bartering may be primitive, but that's no reason not to use it. And while you do bring up a good point Paolo:

 

 And about turning the ingot into smaller slots, I won't trade a full copper ingot for 5 wheat grains. That's why I would reduce it unto smaller pieces.

 

bartering works fine for that too. That's what I prefer about bartering. The flexibility. Who says you have to trade in copper coins? If I don't want to trade a full copper ingot for 5 grains of rice, I wont. Instead I'll trade for something of lesser value, like 3 calamari or a few Native Copper ores.

 

Also, making coins out of every metal might get hard to manage. Although I must admit that coin piles would be cool. :P

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that making these coins won't be worth the effort. In TFC, why would i want to spend clay, logs, straw and metal to make smaller denominations of copper(or whatever metal)? I would just trade something I already had instead of going to the trouble of spending more resources for the ability to trade in a lower denomination. That's just what I think though. :)

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About making coins of every metal, I suggested that part to give a bit of realism, but your community can use like only copper coins, for example, or only iron coins, or only brass coins, or only gold coins, or use brass and gold coins to determine that gold values the double as brass, for example.

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About making coins of every metal, I suggested that part to give a bit of realism, but your community can use like only copper coins, for example, or only iron coins, or only brass coins, or only gold coins, or use brass and gold coins to determine that gold values the double as brass, for example.

 

It's too contrived of an idea.

A bar of metal is useful to me.  1/64th of a bar of metal... or anything short of a whole bar... is less useful.  Even if I have 64 coins, I still have to smelt them back into a bar, so a bar would be worth more to me than 64 coins.  When I trade it's because someone has something I want.  I want bars, I can use them.  I don't want coins.

 

Besides, ground nuggets stack... i think up to 64... why not use them as coins if you're so keen on it?

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money is only usefull in a society where not everyone can collect resources for themselves, which is not how TFC or even minecraft for that matter works

 

for example, a blacksmith is paid to make tools for farmers who don't know how to make the tools themselves, and the farmers in turn sell their crops, because not everyone in the village knows how to properly raise livestock and grow crops

 

this is just simply not how minecraft works, everyone can do or get anything they need by themselves, making currency a moot point

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Believe me, my community is big and we have divided professions, and most of us want a coinage system, that's why I went with this idea. Some people other than me wants coins. If you won't use them, ok, don't use them, but if me, my community, and who knows who else wants a coinage, at least let them be included in the game. If you want to go on bartening, ok, your decision, but our towns want something more advanced and we are just tired of bartening.

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For me, if I needed anything less that a bar, I would just trade in ores or small ores. And Paolo, just because you and your community want coinage, it doesn't mean that if coinage isn't added, they can't be included in the game. One 64th of a bar of metal isn't even worth anything anyway. A small ore is 1/10 of a bar...Yeah.

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Well, if you don't like the 64th of a bar, why not 20 coins then? And I won't use small ores because they are hard to come by: you rarely see enough ores in the surface to have enough to use as money, and sluices also yield too few. Believe me, I thought a lot before raising this topic. The most aspiring items to be used as money only stack until 16, including useless minerals like jet and olivine, and metal sheets. The others just seem to have too few value.

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It's too contrived of an idea.A bar of metal is useful to me.  1/64th of a bar of metal... or anything short of a whole bar... is less useful.  Even if I have 64 coins, I still have to smelt them back into a bar, so a bar would be worth more to me than 64 coins.  When I trade it's because someone has something I want.  I want bars, I can use them.  I don't want coins. Besides, ground nuggets stack... i think up to 64... why not use them as coins if you're so keen on it?

Need ingots for tools? Then you could use lead, silver, gold, bizmuth or zinc coins? And you don't want coins? Just don't make them and let the others enjoy them. Or earn them from me... If you want, coins can be coded to be smelted in a forge to recover the metal. And not, i am not keen on using nuggets. You don't want coins, but I do. Sorry.
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I got the idea of being able to make coins ingame to use for trade in multiplayer servers. They could be made of any metal, resulting on copper coins, iron coins, zinc coins, or even bronze coins, brass coins, steel coins and gold coins etc. To make them, you should need to knap a coin mold, from clay. It can be done this way:X = untouchedO = Knap out this in the knapping slot.XXXXXXOXOXXXXXXXOXOXXXXXXThen, cook the mold in a pit kiln to have ceramic coin mold. Then, smelt your metal and pour it in your ingot mold. Then right click and put the coin mold where you would put a tool mold wait, and you should have a coin mold filled with metal. Put this into the crafting table as a shapeless recipe and it will yield 64 coins of the metal you chose. Eureka! You made money! (Literally).

Now this is great

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Need ingots for tools? Then you could use lead, silver, gold, bizmuth or zinc coins? And you don't want coins? Just don't make them and let the others enjoy them. Or earn them from me... If you want, coins can be coded to be smelted in a forge to recover the metal. And not, i am not keen on using nuggets. You don't want coins, but I do. Sorry.

 

Im sorry to say, but i don't think coins fit in well with TFC or minecraft at all, and while there is a working system (bartering) that has no problems at all, i don't think coins will be implemented as they will take up useful time to be coded, time that could be well spent somewhere else.

 

If you still think coins would be good, think about the iron coins that were implemented into IC2. No one ever used them as they were worthless and just caused more hassle.

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I actually quite like the idea of money and it would suit TFC as specialization could be an important factor on SMP servers.

However the OP's suggestion does have some flaws in the details, for example 64 coins from 1 ingot seems way too many. I would rather suggest 8 or 12 coins, perhaps even 4.

Here is a graphic I made with some suggestions:

Posted Image

Concerning stamps, it would probably be better if the coins contained the name of the stamp in their name instead of as a tooltip, so for example a stamp named "Dollar" would create coins by the name "Golden/Bronze/... Dollar" which would stack with eachother whereas they wouldn't stack with coins of other names. 

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I would very much recommend that coins be fractions of ingots that divide the number 100 evenly. there are 100 units in a single bar so 1/2, 1/4, 1/5, 1/10, 1/20 etc is much more appropriate than 1/64 or 1/12.

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I would very much like someway to divide ingots (Heck that would make making alloys much easier) but if it's the real deal with coins and all that i'd say that sevi's way would (Out of all the once here) be the best way to go!

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A question, won't coins still just be another item for barter? Coins only have value because someone (or government) says so, and that value fluctuates based on demand. So, having coins does not eliminate the barter, it just brings in another, perhaps common, medium for the transactions. You'd still need, I think, a "value chart" showing how much any given item costs, and in that case you can just take items of a similar value (or multiple of one for a single of another) and trade directly rather than use the coins.

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