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Mileaos2

stoneage, copperage, bronze age way to fast (modified)

34 posts in this topic

I'm fine with the copper age being relatively short -- that matches history (it's often considered just the beginning phase of the bronze age).

 

While the stone age could be extended with more technology steps (but honestly I don't see the suggestions above extending it very far), the historical reason the stone age was so long was the acquisition of knowledge.

 

One way to simulate this (though I'm not really recommending/suggesting it) would be to randomize the names and appearance of ores for every seed (fantasy names probably, not "bismuth is this seed's copper") so the goal becomes to figure out which ones are "the copper" by finding enough nuggets to try smelting them and see if you can make a tool from them. With 14 different ores currently, you might get lucky and pick up 10 nuggets which happen to be the copper, or it might take over a hundred nuggets and a dozen smelting attempts.

 

Once you've figured out at least one of the coppers, you have metal tools (yay!), but figuring out which ores to use to make bronze gets even more complicated. Tin bronze is the relatively easy one to shoot for, requiring on average a half dozen smelting attempts to discover (though you could draw that out by randomizing the proportions too); bismuth and black bronzes would be much harder to figure out (might wait until you need them for Tier 5+ alloys).

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You could just wait to move from age to age in till youhave made the anvil, armors and tools for the age your at.

 

ie:

 

-stone age make copper tools,armors and then anvil

-copper age make bronze tools, armors and anvil 

-So on

 

that adds a bit of a story line to your play and will made the ages go by much slower ;). Don't limit your self to just the rules the mod gives you be creative.

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One of the things that i like most about TFC is how it made survival more believable.

I like the idea of extending the time it takes to evolve from stone age to bronze.

I don't really know historically about bronze, but what if you could only smelt bronze with coal instead of wood and needed a copper chisel to create a kiln-pit  only with smooth stone?

As far as stone age goes I like the idea of hand tools that could not cut trees of course we need sticks for the firepits and to be used as fuel.

With the addition of body temperature we need some kind of leather for early game (maybe scraped leather done only with a knife) (We should be able to make a cape to keep body heat and leather strips to finally have handles for the tools.

Only stone axes with a handle can cut down trees.

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Bronze is smeltable in temperature in a kiln, and if we need a pit-kiln to make copper, so I don't think needing copper to make a pit-kiln is a good idea.

I mean, I need a pit kiln to get a copper chisel to make a pit kiln. Not a good idea.

The only problem with hand tools is, you have sticks, you have tool heads, why aren't you putting them together?

 

To make hand tools a possibility, you'll need something to use when sticking tool heads on sticks. so people can't simply pick up a stick and some stones and go right to tools with handles.

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Thanks

 

Bronze is smeltable in temperature in a kiln, and if we need a pit-kiln to make copper, so I don't think needing copper to make a pit-kiln is a good idea.

 

I am suggesting needing two different kind of kilns one just a hole on the ground with straw and wood logs for copper and another made of smooth stone straw and charcoal.

Some research prove me wrong. As far as temperature goes you can smelt bronze on the same range as pure copper. Looks like it was more a question of early men learning to work with the different alloys and mining techniques.

Now since it took humanity 2000 years to move from copper age to bronze age I think we should not be allowed to jump straight to bronze. 

 

 

 

 

To make hand tools a possibility, you'll need something to use when sticking tool heads on sticks. so people can't simply pick up a stick and some stones and go right to tools with handles.

That could be achieved by adding scraped hide made just with a knife (a low quality leather  used for capes and leather strips)

 

 for 

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The best way to limit bronze-age that I can think of is to prevent making bronze cast tools or eliminate some small ores from being found so you need to mine for them(or possible make them 'impure ores' or something). Since the only thing really limiting the transition from copper to bronze was knowledge, something we already have, it's really hard to think up of a good way to put things apart though.....

 

For the scraped hide, I think we could just use rawhide strips and that'd work fine

But if it's something easy as hide, the transition from hand tools to tools with handles will be a simple matter of finding a animal, and then, unless you can find lots of animals or start breeding them snapish, you'll be hard-pressed to keep up the supply, especially since animals can be hard to find.....

 

Actually, needing to rove around looking for animals until you gather enough things to settle down and get a steady source of hide and such.. hmm sounds attractive, actually.

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The time it takes between different ages is a very interesting question.

I see some problems with all levels.

 

Tier 0 -> Tier 1:

You're right that it's extremely easy to create copper tools, because of the panning system.

With a bit of luck you can find tin / silver / bismuth & zinc, and just skip copper tools (but not anvil, remember that!)

But you need to remember that the stone age is very boring.

You need to stay home half of the time because you cannot fight mobs, and there is very little content.

Making it longer will make the beginning very long, exhausting and boring.

 

Tier 1 -> Tier 2:

The copper age consists only of finding a vein of tin, gold (rose gold anvil), or bismuth & zinc.

This is a very short age, and it should be longer.

As you have basic armor, and tools like chisel and saw, you can start building things, dealing with mobs, making farms and such.

 

It is not realistic that you need a better kiln for bronze, but maybe it's worth it for making this age longer.

Maybe the crucible idea is a good one, even though finding graphite & kaolinite is very hard with only copper tools.

(Remember, until now a crucible is needed only for tier 4 metal, not tier 2).

As Allen said /, the main limit was knowledge, and a way to simulate it could be casting limiting.

 

I have ideas for other ages as well, but I don't want to get off topic.

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From what i have seen since i started with this mod, witch is about a RL month orso now on an off, is that how quick you progress all kind of depends on how lucy/pacient you are finding a good map seed (or rather more a good spawn point it seems).

 

That being sad i think needing graphite & kaolinite to get past say copper or bronze, is a bad thing to begin with. Many people are allready sort a stuck on getting a crucible from time to time (from what i read on the forums that is) simply because the ores are not that commonly seeded.

 

For example: i have loads of ores where i started, i managed to venture out (upto 2000 blocks atleast) and get some kaolinitte by sheer luck, but im mostly surounded by ocean bodys and the landmass i am on has no graphite that i could find so far (and trust me i tried hard, even went into massive caves going to the middle layer and wasted a pro-pick or 2 on the 2000 block venture i made). I dont think it would be good for the game-play to restrict progression to iron depending on your luck factor, not that i think exploring is bad thing to do, but in the first few tiers traveling long distances can be rather anoying. As it stands now those 2 ores arent holding you back from reaching the iron age, witch allowed me to enjoy the seed im on in that world untill i get around finding me that Graphite deposite i need so badly (simply cause iron is a lot more durable) :P

 

While on the other hand i also experienced the flip side of the coin, and had one in a world before i even got into the Bronze age and dint even know how to use it properly since that was my second world i played (first one was a ocean island with no trees it dint last long i can tell yah :P).

 

I really like the idea behind moving the pit kiln away from the Bronze age though, aside from the basic needs obviously, i think smelting bronze in jars should not be possible to begin with. Im not sure Blooms would be the way to go, but maybe something along those lines would be cool.

 

Short Example:

Maybe a more primative Crucible can be added that requires copper age materials and that can only smelt ore for bronze alloys when used in a multi-block structure in combination with a forge (much like the Blastfurnace idea, but easier to build then say a bloomery). That way you remove the need to cast the liquid bronze from a jar into a ingot mold, without having to bloom things up like with iron. If there are plenty restrictions (like this crucible will only work with the multi-block structure and can only hold slighly more the the current jar system) so that you can only process ores into said bronze ingots of choice, its would also retain the usefullness of the normal crucible at later stages of the game. Only thing im stuck on is how to move them into ingots from this crucible, cause i was thinking of version that has no GUI, while still retaining the need for ingot molds.

 

This would also be a great change to start mapping in some other ores that are seeded quite frequently but are not used at all so far, they might need some tweaking to fit into the whole gameplay, Galena seems to be quite common on most of the worlds i seen so far. Lead also has a low smelting point, so it would fit into the copperbronze ages rather nicely in terms of smelting ores in a pitkiln, one could make this a needed metal to make plates or doors (insert random object here) or what ever for the primative Crucible and/or structure.

 

PS: This being said i also quite like the idea behind researching things, it has many options to use things that are currently not that usefull or important but are still included in the game.

Edited by lordbufu
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The Mantra is Survival Mode as it should have been.

It took humanity 200.000 years to go from paleolithic ( broken stone ) to neolithic ( polished stone ).

I know the only thing that made all those ages take that long was knowledge.

And there is no way to make the player forget all that he knows.

But think about it. Suppose you are a astronaut stranded in another world very similar to earth. Or a castaway on a very large island.

Your ship got destroyed and you have nothing. not even clothes.

How long would it take for you to have a basic shelter and secure food source to even think about metals?

How many of us would in real life survive the first days?

Is ok for me if I dye a few times until i learn enough to survive.

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