Transportation Infrastructure

[Moress 27]

There was discussion a while back about horses and carts. Wheels certainly do better on flat surfaces, and not so well on 1 metre cliffs. If they get added to the game, roads may have a purpose, if not as an explicit structure, but that running carts over stone or cobblestone might be faster than dragging them over grass, dirt or sand.

 

Dunk you do love me!

 

>

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

That isn't wrong, but we can go back on our word too

 

There was discussion a while back about horses and carts. Wheels certainly do better on flat surfaces, and not so well on 1 metre cliffs. If they get added to the game, roads may have a purpose, if not as an explicit structure, but that running carts over stone or cobblestone might be faster than dragging them over grass, dirt or sand.

 

If that's the case, you should add an 'incline' function to the chisel, right after 'stairs'. Wheels don't like stairs very much either.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

If that's the case, you should add an 'incline' function to the chisel, right after 'stairs'. Wheels don't like stairs very much either.

1/8th slabs is slope-y enough

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

1/8th slabs is slope-y enough

 

...Hadn't considered such gradual inclines. I stand corrected, nevermind.

[Maga 99]

Acquiring enough cobble to build a road of usable size for carts is practically impossible for most players. Since mining stone takes so long (which, btw, I don't mind) I would probably have red steel and not need anything else by the time I had enough cobble to build a decent road network, therefore making the road useless because there's nothing left for me to mine or transport.

 

I think it would be appropriate to add a chisel-like feature to the shovel where right-clicking turns dirt into "packed dirt" similar to farmland in appearance and having a cart-speed in between dirt and cobble. Any right-clicks after that would remove 1/8 of packed dirt blocks, allowing for road creation, still using up a tool and not punishing players who don't have 3 double chests of cobblestone just to get to the neighboring biome.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

For goodness sake, you've been posting old-hat all over the place for the past 9 hours non-stop. Not cool.

 

Straight talk, no-nonsense time. The faster you get this the better off you'll be:

Try doing more reading and thinking before you do your talking or you risk sounding like an ignorant fool.

If you want to argue with what someone says, go ahead, but we don't tolerate direct insults.

 

Acquiring enough cobble to build a road of usable size for carts is practically impossible for most players. Since mining stone takes so long (which, btw, I don't mind) I would probably have red steel and not need anything else by the time I had enough cobble to build a decent road network, therefore making the road useless because there's nothing left for me to mine or transport.

 

I think it would be appropriate to add a chisel-like feature to the shovel where right-clicking turns dirt into "packed dirt" similar to farmland in appearance and having a cart-speed in between dirt and cobble. Any right-clicks after that would remove 1/8 of dirt packed dirt blocks, allowing for road creation, still using up a tool and not punishing players who don't have 3 double chests of cobblestone just to get to the neighboring biome.

I strongly disagree. Stone is one of the easiest materials to get, given the amount of mining required to find minerals and ores.

[Maga 99]

If you want to argue with what someone says, go ahead, but we don't tolerate direct insults.

 

Edited post and apologized

 

I strongly disagree. Stone is one of the easiest materials to get, given the amount of mining required to find minerals and ores.

 

To make a road to a nearby town only 1500 blocks away for a heavily used trade route (often my mines are further from base than that)

 

Even if the road only had to be 2 wide it would still take 47 stacks of cobble (1.25 full double chests) and 1.5k isn't even that much...

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Just trowing something else on the discussion. How can we solve the issue with mountains.

The options are going around, over or under.

Going around makes the distance a lot longer (more materials and Terraforming ).

Going over ads the slope and if we want to be believable we should not go as fast up hill.(maybe going faster down hill to compensate? ).

Going under adds the cost in tools and time to mine stone.

I love terraforming and making roads but when I get to a mountain is really hard to decido what to do.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I strongly disagree. Stone is one of the easiest materials to get, given the amount of mining required to find minerals and ores.

 

Honestly, even if stone IS piss-easy to get... I still think that being able to chisel-down dirt with an alt shovel mode is a pretty bitchin' idea. Do you really disagree?

[Maga 99]

Honestly, even if stone IS piss-easy to get... I still think that being able to chisel-down dirt with an alt shovel mode is a pretty bitchin' idea. Do you really disagree?

 

Obviously I don't. And stone is, as you say, "piss-easy" to get. I want stone? I take a pick and hold left-click. Easy? Yep. Tedious. Big yep.

 

Given that I prospect and mine ores in the most efficient way possible I find myself well into the iron age before I need to place a fourth chest for cobble (talking single chests here)

Not sure if that's just me but to back this up, today I got to the steel age going solo on a server and so far I have acquired just under 3 double chests of cobblestone (counting all types and everything used in building)

 

Of course cobble roads should be better, but plenty of civilizations got along just fine without paving everywhere they wanted to take a wagon.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Whenever I'm mining out a vein, I make sure to always mine out all of the touching stone blocks before I mine the ore block. This makes life a lot easier in regards to finding the stray ore blocks that branch off the sides that are a bit harder to find if all you mine is the actual ore itself. Sure it's going to use up more pick durability, but when it's all said and done not only am I confident that I have dug up all the ore that the vein has to offer, I also have more than enough rocks to turn into cobblestone or brick blocks.

[Maga 99]

Whenever I'm mining out a vein, I make sure to always mine out all of the touching stone blocks before I mine the ore block. This makes life a lot easier in regards to finding the stray ore blocks that branch off the sides that are a bit harder to find if all you mine is the actual ore itself. Sure it's going to use up more pick durability, but when it's all said and done not only am I confident that I have dug up all the ore that the vein has to offer, I also have more than enough rocks to turn into cobblestone or brick blocks.

 

Not quite the MOST efficient way to make sure you got everything but it's easier to do without mistakes and if I'm mining an ore in a rock I want to build with that's often the method I'll use.

 

Mining techniques aside... forcing players to have either no roads or fantastic roads that take 3 years to build seems a little unfair... I'm just suggesting that there be some middle ground with appropriately scaled back benefits.

[AllenWL 186]

Mining techniques aside... forcing players to have either no roads or fantastic roads that take 3 years to build seems a little unfair... I'm just suggesting that there be some middle ground with appropriately scaled back benefits.

Well, The roads I know of that fit TFC timeline are dirt roads, cobble roads, and brick roads.

 

I think if we had those three it would be fine.

Dirt is everywhere and easy to get, cobble can be easily gotten while mining or picking loose rocks off the ground.

Brick would be slightly harder since you need to chisel all the bricks.

 

Seems balanced enough. And I don't think roads should have benefits.

If I want to make a dirt path in my town, I should be able to do so without getting a disadvantage to a town with brick paths

[Maga 99]

I think you've missed a bit of the point. Currently the conversation is about roads that could support carts (kind of a double thread but moving on) build the paths between houses out of whatever you want, but roads to logging camps, mines and other towns for trading resources would need to be smooth and in this case, what the road is made of would definitely have an impact on a cart or wagon being used.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Ideally, a road would be a concept rather than a block. Carts (if they exist) would simply run faster on stone or wood surfaces and not get stuck during the rain on them. By having explicit cart-friendly (chisel-able for ramps) dirt roads, we have to add a new block and extend the functionality of the chisel mechanic, which currently has all chisel-able blocks as stone. This is why you need a pickaxe to break chiseled planks, and would mean the same thing for dirt.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Ideally, a road would be a concept rather than a block. Carts (if they exist) would simply run faster on stone or wood surfaces and not get stuck during the rain on them. By having explicit cart-friendly (chisel-able for ramps) dirt roads, we have to add a new block and extend the functionality of the chisel mechanic, which currently has all chisel-able blocks as stone. This is why you need a pickaxe to break chiseled planks, and would mean the same thing for dirt.

I think if we were to have dirt roads we should make  the shovel  have modes to use a compacting mode to create compacted dirt blocks.

That said I rather have roads only made of cobble and brick ( wood and smooth stone for bridges ) than not have just because it would be harder to code the new dirt blocks and shovel mode feature.

So forget about dirt roads, but please consider other materials if it would be easier to implement.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Ideally, a road would be a concept rather than a block. Carts (if they exist) would simply run faster on stone or wood surfaces and not get stuck during the rain on them. By having explicit cart-friendly (chisel-able for ramps) dirt roads, we have to add a new block and extend the functionality of the chisel mechanic, which currently has all chisel-able blocks as stone. This is why you need a pickaxe to break chiseled planks, and would mean the same thing for dirt.

 

 

Interesting, I'd had a feeling you guys ended up with the same problem as beta vanilla but I wasn't sure

Is there no way to make other non-stone blocks 'chiselable' with other tools, using the same method you used for stone?

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Interesting, I'd had a feeling you guys ended up with the same problem as beta vanilla but I wasn't sure

Is there no way to make other non-stone blocks 'chiselable' with other tools, using the same method you used for stone?

yeah, there is, but it's nasty. It would probably result in a lot of code duping, which would have to be updated and maintained simultaneously

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

yeah, there is, but it's nasty. It would probably result in a lot of code duping, which would have to be updated and maintained simultaneously

 

Well how did vanilla fix it?You know that wooden stairs there were originally stone-type blocks. How did notch fix them?

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Well how did vanilla fix it?You know that wooden stairs there were originally stone-type blocks. How did notch fix them?

 

Pretty sure they just did a lot of code duping that has to be maintained and updated simultaneously and then they used a bunch more block IDs.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

Pretty sure they just did a lot of code duping that has to be maintained and updated simultaneously and then they used a bunch more block IDs.

 

I... sincerely hope that isn't the case...

that's so inelegant, and from a 'professional' code team...

[Palisight 34]

A couple points.

 

1.) After translating the function of real life roads to video game logic:

 

Roads don't give movement bonuses, they prevent movement penalties

 

Certain terrain (snow, tall grass, muddy (i.e. hydrated from water proximity or rain) dirt/grass, dry sand) could cause movement penalties. I would personaly add ice to the list, as people slow thier walk speed when they walk on ice, but video game coders tend to ignore that in favor of making ice slippery (which tends to be coded in quick movement with erattic movement control instead of making people fall down). These make sense from walking/horse riding/chariott point of view.

 

2.) There is no shame in code duping in Minecraft moding. Noone will look down on you for doing it

 

3.) EternalUndeath, that was sarcasm right?

[Kittychanley 1,002]

2.) There is no shame in code duping in Minecraft moding. Noone will look down on you for doing it

 

There is a lot of shame in code duping, and anybody who knows anything about coding will look down on you for doing it. It's a sloppy half-ass way to force something to work, and in general is just not good practice to follow. It also makes maintenance an absolute nightmare because if you change the code in one place, now you have to go and find the dupes and change them too, and hope that you don't forget any of the dupes.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

There is a lot of shame in code duping, and anybody who knows anything about coding will look down on you for doing it. It's a sloppy half-ass way to force something to work, and in general is just not good practice to follow. It also makes maintenance an absolute nightmare because if you change the code in one place, now you have to go and find the dupes and change them too, and hope that you don't forget any of the dupes.

 

I don't even code, and I know that

far better to make one class to handle the main idea of it, and then have it called and slightly modified for the individual occasions

[transcengopher 349]

yeah, there is, but it's nasty. It would probably result in a lot of code duping, which would have to be updated and maintained simultaneously

What? No, all the code I saw in there regarding this stuff are possible to be configured to work off of a single instance of code with couple parameters. Just superclass that shiz.