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Srgnoodles

Believability VS well, just Believability

11 posts in this topic

So, I started playing TFC a while ago, and i remember hearing the ever present motto "Believability over realism" and being like "yaaay this mod is awesome and stuff"

To me, this meant that, even though something wasn't quite realistic, if it fit into the general feel of TFC, and we made it properly so that it made sense, it would be able to work in TFC

 

But i was mistaken, apparently, the goal of TFC IS to be realistic as possible, and the whole Believability thing only meant that they could sliiiiightly bend the precise rules of how things actually work in real life, just to make things not mind numbingly complicated

 

So, hope this clarifies things.

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Do you have examples of things that could be "not quite realistic" an fit TFC...

 

For me, to take real process and items and adapt/simplify their mechanics to a game, well for me that is believability... like it's done in TFC

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To be honest, the only gripe I have with TFC is the crafting table, which I don't hold against anyone. That thing is real hard to get rid of, and they've been making plenty of progress towards doing that.

 

Also lava, but not a big deal IMO.

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have fun with liquid that *should* just harden. Lava is just stupid over all in my oppinion, the bottom of the map lava is fine, but lava should always harden into basalt.

Believability is difficult, I dont understand what you mean by its just an excuse. 

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If you really want to go towards believability, why not have two types of lava:

1. Standard lava - Can be found above Y: 0. can be cooled with water and the resulted stone/block could be mined. Most items can be destroyed by throwing in this lava, though high temperature resistant will not (tools, armors, weapons from high quality metals). Texture as the regular lava texture.

2. High temperature lava - Can only be found around Y = 0 to 15 instead or around bedrock. Cannot be cooled as its temperature (due to depth and being close to "center of the earth") is too high, making water just evaporate. Burns any object thrown into it (including players) in an instant due to high temperature. Can't take this lava in a bucket. Texture could be a brighter version of regular lava and giving more light.

 

This way there could be a natural burner for unwanted objects (for a future update where items don't dissapear but after some time return to a solid or placed state). Another thing would be that the core of the planet would be similar to hell and hardly accessible. Imagine the possibility to explore a hellish cavern (like in Terraria, but similarly to the Nether).

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Reality is unintuitive; the more you know about something, the less believable intuitions become. People have these ideas about the the world should work, but often the world just doesn't work like that. That's why it's taken us 200,000 years to figure out quantum theory. For example, science fiction. I'm sure most people found the new Star Trek movie perfectly believable, because they modeled physics based on what they thought should happen. Astrophysicists (I am an astrophysics student) found it completely unrealistic, and therefore, unbelievable. I take it you don't know much about metalworking or geology, so believable to you wouldn't be the same as believable to the devs. 

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But I do know the metalworking :( Only thing Im missing is tempering, and then id be happy as hell.

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If you really want to go towards believability, why not have two types of lava:

1. Standard lava - Can be found above Y: 0. can be cooled with water and the resulted stone/block could be mined. Most items can be destroyed by throwing in this lava, though high temperature resistant will not (tools, armors, weapons from high quality metals). Texture as the regular lava texture.

2. High temperature lava - Can only be found around Y = 0 to 15 instead or around bedrock. Cannot be cooled as its temperature (due to depth and being close to "center of the earth") is too high, making water just evaporate. Burns any object thrown into it (including players) in an instant due to high temperature. Can't take this lava in a bucket. Texture could be a brighter version of regular lava and giving more light.

 

This way there could be a natural burner for unwanted objects (for a future update where items don't dissapear but after some time return to a solid or placed state). Another thing would be that the core of the planet would be similar to hell and hardly accessible. Imagine the possibility to explore a hellish cavern (like in Terraria, but similarly to the Nether).

____

 

Although it would be somewhat counter-intuitive after years of Minecraft lava acting one way with a set appearance, I think it would make more sense to set vanilla lava with a new set of textures.  That should be more of black or dark grey with bright standard-lava streaks (cooling outside, but still liquid hot inside).  This appearance would work for level blocks or surface flows; falling lava streams would still have standard appearance, as the material would be moving too fast in descent to show much cooling.  This would be easier to bunker control, using dirt or stone, pretty much like we do now, and it should cool (essentially) immediately once hit by flowing or source water.

 

High-temperature (active) lava should be hot enough to cause damage when simply nearby (vanilla is Convection Schmonvection).  Maybe not enough to immediately set you on fire as well (unless you're desperate enough to get closer), but being within a few blocks should start the damage process.  Fewer blocks of active lava exposed (range plus line of sight, maybe) would make it a longer time between damage ticks, while a larger exposure should have fairly rapid damage and a chance for catching fire additionally.  Active lava probably would be the stuff to pick up with a blue steel bucket (handwave that vanilla lava wouldn't retain its heat long enough to get to an application site).  As above, this stuff should not be easy to control, needing stone (or similar materials) to block it off, although blue steel might be useful in other forms (some sort of sampling port to draw off quantity without taking damage).

 

I don't know if there's anything a TFC Steve could craft to reduce the exposure damage (or make it near-impossible to be set on fire).  Magic would, of course, make it much easier to justify protection, but without it, I don't know whether any materials that would be accessible in a Late Medieval era could be reasonably fashioned into such protection.  And of course. all of the above conversation about proximity damage assumes that TFC could simulate it without it being exceptionally laggy.

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This is a really tough issue... Considering the temperature of flowing lava (yellow/red hot one), holding a bucket with your bare hand would make the hot fumes from the lava flow up towards the handle and hand... Wouldn't be able to move it like that without being burned in a similar way as with the close proximity to flowing lava.

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When I have a bunch of brilliant white ingots in my inventory I question believability. The mod isn't to make Minecraft real, but to add some more realistic feeling to it and make it a more rewarding game.

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Interesting post, Srgnoodles. Though, you might not read this post, I am afraid that believability can only be real as we perceive it.

 

In other words, we can only perceive our world as we think it might be.

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