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Dedivax

Roman-style aqueducts and lead pipes

14 posts in this topic

I know that the devs probably have some idea on how a water system would work, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

First, they'd need to have mountain springs and rivers to provide a water source high enough to reach anywhere the player might need them to. Then they could add aqueducts to let the water flow towards their homes; they could by built by laying down stone walls pillars and then placing brick conduits on top of those, and they'd let water flow through them sort of like sluices currently do. From the aqueducts water could flow into a stone tank and from the stone tank into a ceramic/lead (romans used both) piping system which would then lead (eh) it wherever the player might need it (of course, water pressure would let water only flow as high as the top of the highest water tank in the system). 

A few uses might be:

-Water mills as a semi-automatic quern (player would still need to replace the hand stone and handle input/output)

-Automatically fill barrels (I'd have three suggestions in this regard: a) turn barrels into more general liquid storage b)make it so that a barrel of water can be turned into a barrel of limewater by adding the appropriate amount of flux to it c) add bigger multiblock barrels)

-Crop irrigation

-Taps to refill thirst bar and water containers

-Water moats to keep mobs away 

So what do you think?

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I think it would be cool to at least have some high up spring water blocks, waterfalls and little rivers are severely lacking in TFC, also lead is poisonous, the Romans just didn't have the life expectancy to really notice. XD

Even just the springs would make most of the things you want to do possible, just playing with the height difference... I can already picture some pretty neat things like some hanging gardens with waterfalls allover the places ^3^

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The "Roman lead poisoning" thing is a myth. Deposits of calcium would build up inside the pipes, preventing any lead from seeping into the water supply.

 

Source

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well, thanks! the more you know... :D there is also something interesting in that article, the use of clay pipes :D :D we do have clay in TFC!

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Mechanically, a pseudo-aqueduct is already possible, assuming you can find a water source high enough to step down from to your destination blocks.  It might take up a few more blocks per length than what you seem to be proposing.  

 

The big difference between classical aqueducts and the default water physics in TFC is the effective slope of the structure.  The first of the Roman aqueducts, the Aqua Appia, was sourced almost 17 kilometers away from the city, but only had 10 meters of vertical drop from start to finish.  Part of that was accomplished through very gradual slopes, but there would also be pipes made of lead, stone, or ceramic that would receive water under pressure (from speed or weight) to allow it to be siphoned up short slopes.

 

I suppose you should be able to craft an aqueduct channel piece (probably ceramic, although stone might also be feasible) that would allow a more gradual vertical drop for water travelling along it (maybe 28 or 35 blocks long before it runs out of flow, compared to 7 now).  The longer it goes before running out would probably help set the cost of the piece.

 

Pipes could be similar to train tracks in vanilla, being laid on the ground without interfering with walking and angling up to the next level when placed next to another pipe on a 1-block higher surface.  Or they could be like vertical/horizontal supports were, taking up a portion of the block space, perhaps with specific pipes and joints instead of universal pieces (like the track example)  They would probably need to be more expensive to make, because of their utility, so some sort of metal would likely be required - I don't know what you might use besides lead (and all that that entails), but probably any workable metal (that doesn't have similar health issues) could be used.  There might be a limit to the (net) vertical rise allowed with the pipe still having running water, even with the siphon effect.

 

Funnels (any of the above materials) could be used to feed either aqueduct or regular flowing water into a pipe or a valve, in order to force the water to a higher pressure or regulate its flow.  If a pipe is laid next to a funnel, the water entering the funnel goes into the pipe.  If there is no pipe attached or barrel below, but there is at least one open block below, it exits the funnel below as a narrow column and then reacts normally when contacting a surface below.

 

Valves would be a way to either stop water from flowing in a pipe or direct it between two pipes at a tee.  A tee is just two pipes in a formless crafting recipe, that allow water to be split off, once per block.  A valve can be part of a recipe with a pipe (to stop flow) or a tee (to determine direction, whether that would be A/B/both or just A/B).  If water cannot be split into two (equal) values, then the tee would require a valve in the recipe.  Water that exits a pipe either starts a normal water flow, if it exits onto same-height terrain, or drops as a narrow column after angling down and away from the pipe exit.

 

If anyone understood any of that rambling, good.  Please let me know if you want me to prattle on further.

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Whew, I didn't expect people to reply after just a few hours

The big difference between classical aqueducts and the default water physics in TFC is the effective slope of the structure.  The first of the Roman aqueducts, the Aqua Appia, was sourced almost 17 kilometers away from the city, but only had 10 meters of vertical drop from start to finish. I suppose you should be able to craft an aqueduct channel piece (probably ceramic, although stone might also be feasible) that would allow a more gradual vertical drop for water travelling along it (maybe 28 or 35 blocks long before it runs out of flow, compared to 7 now).  The longer it goes before running out would probably help set the cost of the piece.

Oh yeah, I somehow forgot to mention that/make it clear in the OP; the stone walls are supposed to support specially-crafted conduits (out of bricks, as that's what the romans used) which would have the benefit of requiring less complicated building (as you'd need to place a single block rather than three) and not being restricted to regular water flowing mechanics (that's what I meant with the "like sluices" part). 

Pipes could be similar to train tracks in vanilla, being laid on the ground without interfering with walking and angling up to the next level when placed next to another pipe on a 1-block higher surface.  Or they could be like vertical/horizontal supports were, taking up a portion of the block space, perhaps with specific pipes and joints instead of universal pieces (like the track example)  They would probably need to be more expensive to make, because of their utility, so some sort of metal would likely be required - I don't know what you might use besides lead (and all that that entails), but probably any workable metal (that doesn't have similar health issues) could be used.  There might be a limit to the (net) vertical rise allowed with the pipe still having running water, even with the siphon effect.

I initially imagined pipes to work like BC ones (which might save the devs some coding time, as BC is open source), occupying the center space of the block and then "expanding" to connect to adjacent pipes, maybe even being placeable inside some blocks (at least building blocks like bricks, smoothed stone and planks) but your first idea should allow for some easier-to-navigate houses. Also I'm not sure what you mean with the last part. Are you saying that water shouldn't be able to reach certain heights through pipes? The only limit on water height would be that of the water tank (or the higher tank, if several tanks are connected to the plumbing system) because of pressure. 

Funnels (any of the above materials) could be used to feed either aqueduct or regular flowing water into a pipe or a valve, in order to force the water to a higher pressure or regulate its flow.  If a pipe is laid next to a funnel, the water entering the funnel goes into the pipe.  If there is no pipe attached or barrel below, but there is at least one open block below, it exits the funnel below as a narrow column and then reacts normally when contacting a surface below.

Definitely a neat idea, works as both input and output for the plumbing 

Valves would be a way to either stop water from flowing in a pipe or direct it between two pipes at a tee.  A tee is just two pipes in a formless crafting recipe, that allow water to be split off, once per block.  A valve can be part of a recipe with a pipe (to stop flow) or a tee (to determine direction, whether that would be A/B/both or just A/B).  If water cannot be split into two (equal) values, then the tee would require a valve in the recipe.  Water that exits a pipe either starts a normal water flow, if it exits onto same-height terrain, or drops as a narrow column after angling down and away from the pipe exit.

I'm not sure about what you mean with this, but I think the "value" thing; seeing as water in minecraft is infinite, it really doesn't make sense to think of it as a limited quantity: either the system has water in it or it doesn't, simple to code (well, obviously simpler than coding what is basically an energy system) and to understand, instead of requiring wiki-binges to understand like most tech mods require you to. 

If anyone understood any of that rambling, good.  Please let me know if you want me to prattle on further.

Do share your ideas, these were really interesting and well thought-out.
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The "Roman lead poisoning" thing is a myth. Deposits of calcium would build up inside the pipes, preventing any lead from seeping into the water supply.

 

Source

 They did actually suffer from lead poisoning, but not from the pipes. Merchants boiled wine preservatives in lead-lined pots, then put it in the Romans' wine. When they drank it, they absorbed the lead. two common symptoms of lead poisoning are loss of appetite and a deadened sense of taste. Archaeologists have discovered an ancient Roman recipe for something called liquamen, which was an incredibly potent flavored sauce made of fermented fish, fish guts, and some other ingredients. Like a much stronger fish sauce, like the kind used in Asia. the strong taste of it coincides with the lack of taste in the higher classes of Romans. They used a lot of it too, especially for feasts. So yeah, they did suffer from lead poisoning, but the higher classes far more than the lesser ones.

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I would really love water/lava pipes and tanks mechanics for my SteamAge addon.

The problem is implementation.

 

 

 

which might save the devs some coding time, as BC is open source

Which is great and all, but there is a problem. BC is complex as hell. And there would need to be changes to make the whole thing fit within TFC. Mainly about graphics and pipe types. And because BC is so complex, it might take lots of time to do those changes. And then, it might be faster to code something yourself. Second thing that comes to mind is UE's Liquid Mechanics. Which seems to be dead. Also, BC pipes don't have pressure.

 

To comment on your suggestions. I don't like how "short lived" they are. Everything you said gets invalidated the moment you get red steel bucket. Yeah, it is end game item, but you can survive just fine without anything you said. Just find nice place near water.

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Interesting... *Takes notes to return to the SS* Wunderbar! das aqueduct! now, to make water spawn at higher levels without causing a massive derp flood by having water source tiles on top of a mountain flooding the valleys and plains, but it would make island hopping and water barriers needed.

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that mod is derp as hell 

 

Why? It doesn't work as intended?

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