Brass as a tool metal

[turtletechy 37]

Brass had been used during the bronze age as a tool metal. It has been proven. It is capable of similar things that bronze is capable of, and to early peoples, was hard to make differently. It was difficult to tell one shiny white metal from another. As such, there are early tools made of brass, which have been found. I will admit, it has different properties : it's more malleable, it has a slightly different color. But there isn't much more than that. I just figure it'd be useful enough as a tool metal. 

[corki99 23]

I don't know, but i don't think brass is a hard enough metal for tools. i believe bronze is fine.

[turtletechy 37]

But it would be good at the beginning. And brass is harder than copper. If copper is considered to be valid for making tools, brass ought to be too. For instance, I have an area in which I cannot find tin, but can find a whole ton of zinc, and enough copper to work with, although it's still in low supply. 

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

brass may have other uses than for tools . Having every metal useful to make everything sort of takes away the motivation to get anything.

[turtletechy 37]

brass may have other uses than for tools . Having every metal useful to make everything sort of takes away the motivation to get anything.

 

But it should be able to be used. It's harder than copper. I've got all copper tools now. 

[Kittychanley 1,002]

But it should be able to be used. It's harder than copper. I've got all copper tools now. 

 

This would be an example of TFC going for believability instead of realism. Certain aspects have to be tweaked to balance the game properly. As Dunk stated, if every metal can be used to make everything, then there is no motivation other than durability to make things with different metals.

[aliarcy 6]

I'm pretty sure that Brass is too brittle.

[turtletechy 37]

I'm pretty sure that Brass is too brittle.

 

Actually, bronze is typically more brittle. But aside from that, I guess I can see. I do like realism, but I just want brass to be useful for something aesthetic then. I need to make my world look better, if I can. 

 

Also, will we see these materials be put into other uses than just tools and armor soon then? I'd like to see a few things get utilized. Such as lead for piping (for irrigation or plumbing), brass for instruments, bells, things of the sort, and perhaps as the fittings for certain devices, such as carriages, boats, harnesses, etc. I'd just like to see some more creative uses of metal. Heck, maybe even bigger machines, such as for the processing of wood at a sawmill (for some advantage), or for water powered bellows (to save labor, utilizing water currents to drive a mechanism). 

[Technoderp 0]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that Brass was used for tools quite a while ago. I'll support this, Besides all I'm finding is sphalerite and tetrahedrite so this could be useful.

[turtletechy 37]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that Brass was used for tools quite a while ago. I'll support this, Besides all I'm finding is sphalerite and tetrahedrite so this could be useful.

 

It's the same way here. Go exploring, the same thing. The problem is that most people can only find Cassiterite if it spawns in granite on the surface. That's the only case where it's possible to find it. That said, granite should be one of the most common surface rocks, after the sedimentary rocks, but it's not. I'm finding almost all metamorphic rock, which makes no sense. Metamorphic rock is actually somewhat rare as opposed to igneous and sedimentary. 

[Deviator 51]

It's the same way here. Go exploring, the same thing. The problem is that most people can only find Cassiterite if it spawns in granite on the surface. That's the only case where it's possible to find it. That said, granite should be one of the most common surface rocks, after the sedimentary rocks, but it's not. I'm finding almost all metamorphic rock, which makes no sense. Metamorphic rock is actually somewhat rare as opposed to igneous and sedimentary.

Cassiterite spawns in other rocks types besides granite, you just need to dig down to the 2nd and 3rd layers to find it. If granite were more common as a surface rock, people would just skip copper tools and go straight to bronze.

[turtletechy 37]

Cassiterite spawns in other rocks types besides granite, you just need to dig down to the 2nd and 3rd layers to find it. If granite were more common as a surface rock, people would just skip copper tools and go straight to bronze.

 

But here's the thing, if we're going for realism, granite is one of the most common surface rocks, with basalt close behind. Sedimentary comes before either of them though. 

[Kittychanley 1,002]

But here's the thing, if we're going for realism, granite is one of the most common surface rocks, with basalt close behind. Sedimentary comes before either of them though. 

 

TFC isn't going for realism. TFC is going for believability. Tweaking granite and therefore cassiterite to be more rare on the surface was done for balancing reasons. As Deviator said, if cassiterite was more common, players would quickly skip copper tools and go straight to bronze.

[turtletechy 37]

Alright, I'm just noting out that there are two different goals that are commonly noted, I like the realism one. But I guess it's alright. I just do wish that the distribution was a little more realistic. Metamorphic rock is exceedingly common (by what I've experienced at least), where as it's usually exceedingly rare. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding though. 

[transcengopher 349]

brass may have other uses than for tools . Having every metal useful to make everything sort of takes away the motivation to get anything.

 

But then it creates bottlenecks, and considering we are talking metals here, this will require ample amounts of either digging or running around and then digging some more. Which is what virtually every bottleneck in this mod is about. We don't have these kinds of constraints when we are making charcoal or growing food or doing everything else. That if you don't call the desire to build out of exact blocks a constraint. I don't know how it is in build 78, but you at least could introduce another progression besides tools (and add more bottlenecks in the process, while also making them less severe in general by making workaround routes).

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I'm aware that in antiquity brass and bronze were often used in place of each other. Think of it like metal with a predefined purpose. Bronze goes in the "use for tools" pile and brass goes in the "use for ------" pile.

[digger1213 0]

I never got copper tools, i went straight to bronze from surface cassiterite and native copper/tetrahedrite found all 3 types from rocks on the surface in the hills like 50 blocks from my house.

 

Anyways, on topic, brass should have more uses other than red steel (or was it blue?). If you made brass, you wont be able to use it until the end of the game.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

I think that right now, metals don't have much of a use other than tools or armour. These "useless" metals need uses. Brass technically has a use in making red steel, along with all the other things like sterling silver. But they should have more uses that that, perhaps something like decoration. Or they could be made into metal leaf to colour a block. However, I don't think brass should be a tool metal, even if you can do it in real life, for the sole reason that 

 

Having every metal useful to make everything sort of takes away the motivation to get anything.

[Cole_The_God 7]

brass may have other uses than for tools . Having every metal useful to make everything sort of takes away the motivation to get anything.

 

Seeing specific uses for different metals would certainly be neat, rather than just anything makes everything. The only really unique metals are red/blue steel with their special buckets, but other than that any metal can make any tool as far as I can remember off the top of my head. I mean sure I guess one could mention blast forges and the bloomery, but those are all used in advancement rather than just miscellaneous help/fun/projects. 

[Jivix 21]

I do miss having those bizarre alloys. Taking away many of the metals that were used as tools forces us to trade smithing time for exploration time to find the appropriate tool metals. I personally love playing with smithing and I liked mixing all sorts of alloys from the metals I've collected, which I would then be able to find a use for as a tool.

 

I know the non-tool metals are eventually going to have other uses, I'm merely suggesting that we retain the ability to make tools from all of the metals (except perhaps the tier 0 metals) until we have alternative uses for the non-tool metals.

[Rev 11]

I thought of posting this a while back but I knew brass was too soft until I read up on other brass alloys.  Certain brasses CAN be used AS tools, the brass in game would not be the most preferable brass.  jugging by the wiki( 88%-92%Cu and 8%-12%Zn) which is the average Bronze alloy mixture (88%Cu,12%Sn), perhaps if...IF the Devs add brass tools and such I suggest making a sub brass alloy Such as: Beta Brass which can only be worked hot, and is also harder and stronger, which resembles the properties of Bronze(45%Zn 55%Cu).  There is also High Brass which has High tensile strength, (65%Cu 35%Zn). and finally Muntz Brass which has a tad bit of Iron in it to give it some strength. (59%Cu 40%Zn and 1%Fe).  I know I'm going over board buuuut I know a lot in this field of work so just like to throw it out there when I saw the post.  

(plus reading one post saying that brass is too brittle... well your partially right lol.)

 

Basically- More zinc=harder but more brittle  more copper=softer but more tensile strength and ductility.  (Small amounts of iron work like zinc but and a higher grade..)

 

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

yeah, I did a lot of research into different types of alloys and how to predict their properties based on constituent metals. In short: you can't do that. I did happen to pore over any and all of the tables and graphs I could find that showed alloy properties at various temperatures and metal compositions, mostly with tin-copper bronze and zinc-copper brass. The graphs discussed the different phases of the metals which related to the chemical structure of the interstitial alloys, but there wasn't a concrete way to calculate properties other than experimentally. This was way back when we were looking into having an open alloy system, basically throw any thing you want into a crucible and see what you get. After we realized that would never work, we finalized the current system of more concrete alloys and metals.