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AllenWL

Stamina

17 posts in this topic

I think stamina could be a good addition to the game. It will decrease when moving, and get restored when resting/staying still and sleeping.

Stamina will drain and recharge slowly, but recharge faster than it drains(sort of). Staying still will only charge your stamina up to 900, max, and recharges at the same rate as when it declines. Sleeping can charge it up to full, and recharges faster(sleeping on ground is slowest, straw bed is faster, bed is fastest).

 

The Stamina bar should start out with 700 units, and have the base cap of 1000, just like health. If the stamina rate is between 500~900, you will be 'normal'(no buffs, no debuffs) If stamina falls below 500, you will start to get the effects of low stamina. If the stamina is over 900, you get full stamina buffs.

Max Stamina will go up by 1 per level gained.

 

You can sleep on the ground, but it will not skip the night, nor will it set your spawn. It will only regenerate your stamina slowly

 

When low on stamina, you will move slower, deal less damage, and break blocks slower.

Eating will also be slower, and items have a chance to fail when used(hoes don't till, firestartes have a bigger chance of fail, etc)

 

Also, being on low stamina prevents some actions you can do. (cannot use anvils/quern at less than 200,  craft cannot at less then 50)

If you are at 0 stamina, you will 'faint' (basically, fall asleep, and not be able to wake up till your stamina is at least 50)

 

Having the higher your stamina, the more damage you deal and the faster you are at moving/breaking blocks/etc. Firestarters also get a higher chance of working, and you can throw the javelin/fire the bow farther and do more damage with it. You also run faster(note, run faster not walk faster)

 

Using an anvil/quern takes lots of stamina.

 

Having heavy items in your inventory makes your tire from walking/running/swimming/jumping faster.

Armor also Makes your more tired

 

some foods like fruits can replenish some stamina

 

I thought about it, and decided that a stamina bar by itself was not a 100% good method.

So I thought, why not have 2 stamina bars?

the first bar will be a 'slow' stamina bar(the one explained above)

and the second bar will be the 'fast' stamina bar (thanks to theJalden for this idea)

 

The fast stamina bar would start with 1000 units, same as the 'slow' stamina bar, and will increase with the levels as well.

The fast stamina bar drains and refills really fast, and does not require you to 'rest' (not do anything) to refill, and will refill as long as you are not prefroming an action that makes it go down.

 

The 'fast' stamina bar decreases when climbing, swimming, sprinting, and drawing a bow.

When it hits 0, you cannot run, swim, sprint, climb, or draw a bow, and if you had a drawn bow at the time, the arrow will fly away at a random direction.

 

You do not get any penalties as long as the 'fast' stamina bar is not 0.

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Was actually thinking about a very similar system the other day. We added a thirst bar to TFC, which I felt improved upon the original vanilla hunger system, (and becomes more important in the next release of TFC (where temperature affects how fast you burn calories / how much you perspire), but I still don't think it's perfect.

 

Our system isn't able to replicate exhaustion, or a temporary inability to perform an action. You can just keep running or moving until you starve to death. An energy / stamina system can accommodate this however. Stamina regeneration can be related to experience level and your hunger meter, and can be temporarily drained and refilled with rest without having to consume more food (however stamina restoration would cause more hunger to be consumed).

 

Basically, it just gives us more room to work with in the game features we impose. I guess if anything, it's a bit more of an entirely limiting feature on it's own, it doesn't really add any ability or functionality, only limits what you can do. We've been talking about certain limits and restrictions we can impose on players to help guide them down a certain path, and although I wasn't initially excited about the idea of increasing [what could be viewed as] tedium, it may well prove useful in some of the features we've been planning. Achievements and events in TFC can be much more rewarding than vanilla because they are much harder to do and because it's more fun to do them.

 

A lot of upcoming content is really fun and cool, but doesn't really accomplish much compared to what you can accomplish on your own in the game right now. I guess what we'd end up doing is putting limitations on players but also giving you fun / engaging ways to accomplish tasks at or above the level / rate you can do them now, a bit of a trade-off.

 

The original topic is about stamina, but I've sort of slid into a tangent about upcoming features and ongoing development. I won't give any further details about some of the things I'm referring to in this post as they're either undecided or we're choosing not to release information about it at this point, in other words, this is not referring to any of the currently announced features to build 78.

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 I only ever play with Smart Moving installed, it is a lot more enjoyable. There is a stamina system of sorts included in smart moving, but it only effects movement. I would highly recommend adding Smart Moving to your current mods, it really helps when navigating the hilly TFC terrain.

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I would love stamina as way to emulate tiredness and as a way to make various power systems and automatization actually make sense from gameplay view. Milling for example. Manual milling using quern is extremely tiring and you can spend whole day monotonously turning a quern to get little bit of flour. So even simple wind/water mill would be huge improvement. Same thing with wrough iron and water-powered hammers. It would also make inventory management more dynamic and open way for various transportation options. Hauling lots of stuff would simply use up tons of stamina, so if you want to haul a lot of stuff, build a rail.

 

It can also be made to interact in complex way with hunger and thirst system. High-quality prepared food could help you replenish your stamina faster. Drinking beer, wine or juice instead of water too could have positive on your stamina regeneration.

 

It could also improve PvP. Using heavy armor would drain your stamina like crazy, so light armor could gain huge advantage and be actually usable in both PvP and PvE. 

 

Stamina would not add anything interesting by itself. But it would make many other things much more interesting.

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Was actually thinking about a very similar system the other day. We added a thirst bar to TFC, which I felt improved upon the original vanilla hunger system, (and becomes more important in the next release of TFC (where temperature affects how fast you burn calories / how much you perspire), but I still don't think it's perfect.

 

Our system isn't able to replicate exhaustion, or a temporary inability to perform an action. You can just keep running or moving until you starve to death. An energy / stamina system can accommodate this however. Stamina regeneration can be related to experience level and your hunger meter, and can be temporarily drained and refilled with rest without having to consume more food (however stamina restoration would cause more hunger to be consumed).

 

Basically, it just gives us more room to work with in the game features we impose. I guess if anything, it's a bit more of an entirely limiting feature on it's own, it doesn't really add any ability or functionality, only limits what you can do. We've been talking about certain limits and restrictions we can impose on players to help guide them down a certain path, and although I wasn't initially excited about the idea of increasing [what could be viewed as] tedium, it may well prove useful in some of the features we've been planning. Achievements and events in TFC can be much more rewarding than vanilla because they are much harder to do and because it's more fun to do them.

 

/

 

well, i thought it'd be nice if you start out with your stamina bar filled say, 800 units,(on a 1000 unit bar) and if your stamina goes over 900, you can do things faster, hit harder, use less hunger/thirst to do things and such

 

If it goes Below 700, it slows you down, makes you weaker, and so on(potion effects can work for both (weakness, strength, mining fatigue, haste, etc), I guess, but I don't really like them....)

 

As you level up, the bar will increase like health, hunger, etc, but the 'base' stamina will still be 900 so if you make your stamina say, 1000 units in a 2000 unit bar, it will still be counted 'above average' and give you buffs.

 

The strength of buffs/debuffs you get will scale with the stamina you have, so if you have full stamina on say, 10 levels, you'll be stronger, faster, etc than a guy on full stamina with say, 0 levels. So leveling up can be even more worthwhile.

 

And since the unarmed doing 1 heart damage means you HAVE to use weapons, I thought if stamina makes you stronger, you can have high stamina and fight with your fists and not have a horrible disadvantage against armed mobs/players. I mean, you'll still be at a disadvantage, but maybe you can get a few good hits in...

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 I only ever play with Smart Moving installed, it is a lot more enjoyable. There is a stamina system of sorts included in smart moving, but it only effects movement. I would highly recommend adding Smart Moving to your current mods, it really helps when navigating the hilly TFC terrain.

/

I know, but that stamina fills up/empties pretty fast and is more of a minor nuseace

(in my opinion)

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I would love stamina as way to emulate tiredness and as a way to make various power systems and automatization actually make sense from gameplay view. Milling for example. Manual milling using quern is extremely tiring and you can spend whole day monotonously turning a quern to get little bit of flour. So even simple wind/water mill would be huge improvement. Same thing with wrough iron and water-powered hammers. It would also make inventory management more dynamic and open way for various transportation options. Hauling lots of stuff would simply use up tons of stamina, so if you want to haul a lot of stuff, build a rail.

 

It can also be made to interact in complex way with hunger and thirst system. High-quality prepared food could help you replenish your stamina faster. Drinking beer, wine or juice instead of water too could have positive on your stamina regeneration.

 

It could also improve PvP. Using heavy armor would drain your stamina like crazy, so light armor could gain huge advantage and be actually usable in both PvP and PvE. 

 

Stamina would not add anything interesting by itself. But it would make many other things much more interesting.

 

= = = = =

 

Some concerns about this, though it feels like it could be a good addition to limit things:

 

- Stamina going down could cause it to be impossible to flee massive mobs of zombies, making it even more dangerous to travel after dark or during a "dawn rainstorm" when zombies won't burn. It will also almost be a death sentence trying to run from the mini zombies and spiders, since they move about as fast as a normal player's movement rate.

 

- If heavy armor reduces stamina fast, what qualifies as "heavy" armor? And is there an alternative "light" armor metal can be used to make, such as ringmail, or is leather armor all the "light armor" there is? Would require some thought further on this. I generally think I'd go without armor for -most- of TFC due to mobs not being a problem except at night. I rarely go out with armor on in Vanilla since I prefer outrunning to fighting.

 

- Do not like the idea of a "fail potential" for actions while exhausted. For one, it adds random chance to a fairly unforgiving system already - things break and wear down. And unlike in Vanilla, tools are not simply replaced. Clay and metal are nonrenewable resources which play a vital (if not key, for clay) role in how you progress and what you can do. Having a chance to run down even faster with no potential to escape can make breaking out of the Stone Age into Bronze Age (as I privately think of it) much . . . much more difficult.

 

- Eating food to replenish stamina makes food more of a useful thing. Could it be done that food restores -different- stamina and hunger levels, so a food which is crap at restoring hunger is great for refilling stamina? Essentially asking - is it possible to adjust the foods to allow for "energy food"? (Mostly because it does kind of bug me Soybeans are ridiculously weak as food compared to Cabbage, for something which has a lot going for it in comparison. Yet I realize the yield of Soybeans means any higher would make them broken if found early.)

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Good idea the one you got. I was about to suggest something like this ;)

 

To make it better, also add some status effects like pain or bleeding. Bleeding gets life out of you like poison, but it is slower and can kill you. Pain is caused when you get hurt by any means, and is likely to go stronger if you have no armor. Slashing gives you much pain, piercing a bit less, and crushing the most pain. The stronger pain is (Pain I, Pain II...) the slower you will move, or hit (as thinking about the pain will make you react slower). The higher your level is the less you wonder about pain, feeling less of it. Alcohol gives the depressing effect, that ignores pain. (Just like regeneration ignores poison).

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Well in this case, maybe being hit by melee weapons inflicts "Bleeding" for 2-3 seconds (not enough to really kill you but enough to make it effective) but arrows and javelins (most importantly javelins) don't do this, just inflict slowness like combat seems to do randomly now. Though I would really only see use out of this doing PvP or to make weapon-holding zombies more dangerous.

 

Funny you should mention poison though . . . do we HAVE Cave Spiders in TFC? I mean, I suspect we don't have Strongholds, but does the generation skip generating dungeon chambers or abandoned mineshafts? Because notably, that poison is a problem on higher-than-Easy in Vanilla. Not because it does damage but because it hurts while you fight and the silly little Cave Spiders can overwhelm you fast sometimes. Seeing it return on normal Spiders might be interesting.

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= = = = =

 

Some concerns about this, though it feels like it could be a good addition to limit things:

 

- Stamina going down could cause it to be impossible to flee massive mobs of zombies, making it even more dangerous to travel after dark or during a "dawn rainstorm" when zombies won't burn. It will also almost be a death sentence trying to run from the mini zombies and spiders, since they move about as fast as a normal player's movement rate.

 

Well, what I'm thinking is if your stamina is say, 700~900, you'll be able to escape, as long as you are close to shelter. If you're stamina is over 900(energized), you'll be able to outrun spiders and baby zombies. However, you won't be able to run for say, 10 minuets straight(half a minecraft day. I mean, who runs for 12 hours straight non-stop), and will start to slow down and get penalties. So sometimes, it'll be better to try and fight off the mobs with your knife instead of running, because if you try to run, you might get tired and die, and sometimes, it would be better to run then fight because you'll most likely make it to safety if you make a run for it now. 

 

 

- Do not like the idea of a "fail potential" for actions while exhausted. For one, it adds random chance to a fairly unforgiving system already - things break and wear down. And unlike in Vanilla, tools are not simply replaced. Clay and metal are nonrenewable resources which play a vital (if not key, for clay) role in how you progress and what you can do. Having a chance to run down even faster with no potential to escape can make breaking out of the Stone Age into Bronze Age (as I privately think of it) much . . . much more difficult.Kereminde, on 23 Jan 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I don't think all tools should fail. Only some tools, such as a firestarter, a hoe, flint and steel. I mean, even if you are really tired, chopping wood or digging isn't really something you can fail to do. However, lighting a fire with flint & steel/fire starter, tilling ground, those things are hard to do if you are really tired, they require you to give constant force until the job is done, not just swing swing swing done. You need to dig the hoe in and drag it, really put your force into hitting the flint & steel, and if tired, you might not be able to do it correctly.

 

- If heavy armor reduces stamina fast, what qualifies as "heavy" armor? And is there an alternative "light" armor metal can be used to make, such as ringmail, or is leather armor all the "light armor" there is? Would require some thought further on this. I generally think I'd go without armor for -most- of TFC due to mobs not being a problem except at night. I rarely go out with armor on in Vanilla since I prefer outrunning to fighting.

 

Yea, The armor thing would work if we got more armor. As of now, all out armor, other then leather, is plate armor, and considered heavy. But they, it would give a use for leather armor.

You'll use leather armor for exploring, caving, mining, etc because it won't make you tire out as fast, so you'll be able to carry on longer. But you'll use metal armor for fighting, clearing out caves, etc because you don't need to go far. It would also mean in pvp battles, there could be players, or if implemented, carts and wagons that carry all the heavy gear and armor, so the players don't get exhausted before they even reach the enemy.

 

 

- Eating food to replenish stamina makes food more of a useful thing. Could it be done that food restores -different- stamina and hunger levels, so a food which is crap at restoring hunger is great for refilling stamina? Essentially asking - is it possible to adjust the foods to allow for "energy food"? (Mostly because it does kind of bug me Soybeans are ridiculously weak as food compared to Cabbage, for something which has a lot going for it in comparison. Yet I realize the yield of Soybeans means any higher would make them broken if found early.)

Well, I was thinking it'd be nice if we had food like fruits, alcohol, you know not easy to get, but not too hard? I guess some low-hunger foods like beens, garlic, etc would be nice for stamina regen as well. sweets like cookies, cake chocolate, or having a coffee tree/beans to make coffee would be great for stamina-only foods I think

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(Might I say I dislike the quote system on this forums, it seems to break sometimes and it's not always easy to tell when the quoted text ends.) 
= = = = =
AllenWL, on 22 Jan 2014 - 9:46 PM, said:
Well, what I'm thinking is if your stamina is say, 700~900, you'll be able to escape, as long as you are close to shelter. If you're stamina is over 900(energized), you'll be able to outrun spiders and baby zombies. However, you won't be able to run for say, 10 minuets straight(half a minecraft day. I mean, who runs for 12 hours straight non-stop), and will start to slow down and get penalties. So sometimes, it'll be better to try and fight off the mobs with your knife instead of running, because if you try to run, you might get tired and die, and sometimes, it would be better to run then fight because you'll most likely make it to safety if you make a run for it now. 
= = = = =

 

 

 
Well, true and all that but stone knives and social zombies make for . . . sticky situations. Especially if you got those freaking mini zombies running around. The same can be true of running in TFC, since you aren't quite sure if there's creepers hiding in low-laying tree branches. 
= = = = = 
I don't think all tools should fail. Only some tools, such as a firestarter, a hoe, flint and steel. I mean, even if you are really tired, chopping wood or digging isn't really something you can fail to do. However, lighting a fire with flint & steel/fire starter, tilling ground, those things are hard to do if you are really tired, they require you to give constant force until the job is done, not just swing swing swing done. You need to dig the hoe in and drag it, really put your force into hitting the flint & steel, and if tired, you might not be able to do it correctly.
= = = = =

 

 

 
I see what you mean but of those, the firestarter/flint&steel is probably more important and used than tilling with a hoe. At least for me - I till plots where I find a large spread out body of water with near-level land and get to work. Then I'll track nutrient usages and rotate crops. (I even have signs up telling me what to rotate after each planting.) 
 
In short, one use of a hoe on a plot should be pretty much all I need to do. But starting fires is usually one of those things done at rest and not really in a hurry. I think. So these things are kind of not really impactful.
 
What could happen is if you're tired you simply burn alot more food/water doing "strenuous acts" such as tilling, cutting wood, mining, digging, or running. Say, double the usual rate if you're incredibly tired, 150% when reasonably tired. 
= = = = =
Yea, The armor thing would work if we got more armor. As of now, all out armor, other then leather, is plate armor, and considered heavy. But they, it would give a use for leather armor.
= = = = = 

 

 

 
I almost guarantee it will get either less use or no use at all. "Heavy" armors don't seem to have a point to me short of keeping an exploding creeper from killing you. A mob of . . . mobs . . . is still going to take you apart heavy armor or no if you can't get away. It's why I adopted the words "armor is useless most of the time" when running around in Vanilla. If I have a lot of leather, then I'll wear stuff. If not? I'll save my armor for the Nether.
 
Since the Nether/End don't exist here, there's precious little call for "suiting up". Of course, this is just my view of the matter. 
= = = = =
You'll use leather armor for exploring, caving, mining, etc because it won't make you tire out as fast, so you'll be able to carry on longer. But you'll use metal armor for fighting, clearing out caves, etc because you don't need to go far. It would also mean in pvp battles, there could be players, or if implemented, carts and wagons that carry all the heavy gear and armor, so the players don't get exhausted before they even reach the enemy.
= = = = =

 

 

 
Logistically, I don't see how *carts* could work, but pack animals are almost sure to work once they're solved. And that would be interesting since I could also almost guarantee they'd be the first casualty in an attack since they'd be invariably weaker and easier prey for things to take down unless you actively defended it. 
 
And if I had to clear out caves I'd use the time-tested method . . . of going the heck away and letting stuff despawn or move out into tunnels I could take them at my leisure with little risk. Why charge in and risk dying when you could just get them to come to you through a 1x2 hall and fight them one at a time? 
= = = = =
Well, I was thinking it'd be nice if we had food like fruits, alcohol, you know not easy to get, but not too hard? I guess some low-hunger foods like beens, garlic, etc would be nice for stamina regen as well. sweets like cookies, cake chocolate, or having a coffee tree/beans to make coffee would be great for stamina-only foods I think
= = = = =

 

 

 
Coffee beans can be handled like a planted crop, now that I've seen some experience with the crop system. "Raw Sugar" from sugarcane doesn't have a use does it?  . . . maybe fashioning it into candy via a firepit could allow it to be used for a temporary stamina boost. Or "Swiftness I" or something like that, representing a sugar rush. 
 
To alcoholic drinks used to recover stamina, alcohol doesn't restore stamina either; drinking alcoholic drinks impairs your judgement and doesn't actually make you less tired. If anything it can make you more tired, and prone to passing out if you strain yourself. Water is good for stamina only if it's a dehydration issue, but alcohol is worse for what it actively does to your system. 
 
I'd suggest high-protein crops would be a good thing to refine into "energy boosters". Soybeans, nuts (if any exist), and oat all come to mind first from their general inclusion in "power bars". Beans such as black beans and the like also can serve as a good protein source. Also, most fruits can be relatively good to restore energy due to the sugars in them.
 
But this traveled sideways into "nutrition talk" and likely is less about stamina and more about how foods affect it. Which as they say, is another show.
Edited by Kittychanley
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I've suggested this before.  When I did it there were no plans to implement it.  I still suggest that it should be implemented.  The only thing about it is that it should in no way make the game more tedious.  That being said, there are some ways stamina could improve the game. 

My idea for stamina was slightly different from yours.  I think hunger and thirst already do a fair job representing long term and mid term respectively. I wanted a rapidly gaining stamina system, to represent short term fatigue.  If you have ever played skyrim or LoZ:SS than you know what sort of short term stamina I am referring to.  Perhaps a small difference would be that I think there should be a cap on the point stamina could be easily regened to.  This cap could be determined as a function of hunger, health, thirst, level, and time after using the stamina.  And this may be getting silly, but the stamina could increase logarithmically, slowing down as it gets closer to the cap.

 

Ways stamina could impact the game

1.) Sprinting for infinite distances is nerfed.  Makes foot races more fun, transport infrastructure more important, (bridges, tunnels, maybe even roads) but more importantly in increases the need for a horse.

2.) Swimming is nerfed, No more swimming between continents, any long distance swimming is impossible, making boats more necessary.

3.) Fighting would have the highest impact and could be a way to make the higher tier swords and armor more valuable.  Iron can be strong, but slow, and Steel can be lighter, meaning you get more mileage out of it. Bows would consume stamina to keep drawn, making timing when firing a bow much more important.  Fighting in heavy plate armor would be tiring, perhaps encouraging mounted fights.  It would make PvP and PvE more tactical, a much needed feature in vanilla.  (Basically make TerraFirmaCraft mount and blade)

4.) This isn't in TerraFirmaCraft, or slated to be added, but I'd like to climb trees.  If you could use up some of your stamina to go up a tree.  Maybe ctrl to climb and shift to be able to move around on the leaves.  And while we are off topic moving through leaves should be a lot slower, not cobweb slow, but slow enough to get stuck. Maybe 60-70% base speed.

5.) Stamina would be an example of what I like to call an emergent problem.  As you progress in the game, managing stamina becomes more of an issue (Heavy armor, long distances to travel to ore nodes, heavier weapons to swing), but you will have more options on how to deal with it (special recipie improves stamina regen, horses, boats, more weapon choices).  This enables strategy, and gives the game more flavor after you have survived the first few nights.

 

Things to note:  Crafting, mining, chopping, digging, etc. I don't think should have a stamina price tag attached.  Those things are tedious enough.  I can imagine a system where you have to stop every minute and rest for 10 seconds while mining, not very fun.  You might be able to convince me with a compelling argument, but I strongly oppose it interfering with those systems.

 

Also, sleeping to restore stamina, as much as it would make sense, shouldn't be added for the simple reason of servers.  You can't have a game dependent mechanic based on coordinating every member of a multiplayer server.  Once again you could convince me otherwise.  I could hear an argument for simply being in a bed restores stamina, like how it instantly sets spawn.  But that would require being able to "sleep" during the day, and carrying a bed around with you just takes up one more inventory slot.

 

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My idea for stamina was slightly different from yours.  I think hunger and thirst already do a fair job representing long term and mid term respectively. I wanted a rapidly gaining stamina system, to represent short term fatigue.  If you have ever played skyrim or LoZ:SS than you know what sort of short term stamina I am referring to.  Perhaps a small difference would be that I think there should be a cap on the point stamina could be easily regened to.  This cap could be determined as a function of hunger, health, thirst, level, and time after using the stamina.  And this may be getting silly, but the stamina could increase logarithmically, slowing down as it gets closer to the cap.

 

Ways stamina could impact the game

1.) Sprinting for infinite distances is nerfed.  Makes foot races more fun, transport infrastructure more important, (bridges, tunnels, maybe even roads) but more importantly in increases the need for a horse.

2.) Swimming is nerfed, No more swimming between continents, any long distance swimming is impossible, making boats more necessary.

3.) Fighting would have the highest impact and could be a way to make the higher tier swords and armor more valuable.  Iron can be strong, but slow, and Steel can be lighter, meaning you get more mileage out of it. Bows would consume stamina to keep drawn, making timing when firing a bow much more important.  Fighting in heavy plate armor would be tiring, perhaps encouraging mounted fights.  It would make PvP and PvE more tactical, a much needed feature in vanilla.  (Basically make TerraFirmaCraft mount and blade)

4.) This isn't in TerraFirmaCraft, or slated to be added, but I'd like to climb trees.  If you could use up some of your stamina to go up a tree.  Maybe ctrl to climb and shift to be able to move around on the leaves.  And while we are off topic moving through leaves should be a lot slower, not cobweb slow, but slow enough to get stuck. Maybe 60-70% base speed.

5.) Stamina would be an example of what I like to call an emergent problem.  As you progress in the game, managing stamina becomes more of an issue (Heavy armor, long distances to travel to ore nodes, heavier weapons to swing), but you will have more options on how to deal with it (special recipie improves stamina regen, horses, boats, more weapon choices).  This enables strategy, and gives the game more flavor after you have survived the first few nights.

 

Things to note:  Crafting, mining, chopping, digging, etc. I don't think should have a stamina price tag attached.  Those things are tedious enough.  I can imagine a system where you have to stop every minute and rest for 10 seconds while mining, not very fun.  You might be able to convince me with a compelling argument, but I strongly oppose it interfering with those systems.

 

The reason I don't like the quick-drain, quick-refill stamina system is because to me, it seems more like a minor nuisance and I don't think it'll fit in with the game.

Most quick-drain stamina I saw drains/refills in about 5 seconds. I don't think I'd like having to stop swinging my sword every five seconds or so just wait for it to fill up

And while I agree swimming is a bit crazy, I don't want to drown after swimming for 4~5 blocks. Plus, a quick-drain stamina would be more of a problem in the start of the game, when you need to run more than fight, when you have no horses or boats to ride.

 

A long term stamina will be something you can forget at first, but as time passes and fatigue sets int, you'll need to worry about it more. And know that noone whats to stop building a house because they have to rest after all that jumping, or because they want a stone castle and it takes too much stamina to move all that blocks.

As I said, I want the stamina to empty slowly. You won't have to stop every minuet because of exhaustion, that'd be silly, and useless, not to mention boring. Stamina should drain slow enough so you can mine for 20~30 minuets before feeling the effects. So you can mine for 3(in game) days(or a hour) nonstop before collapsing, if you choose. You'll just need to sleep every night to keep top condition, but you can skip a night or two without too much trouble.

 

 

Also, sleeping to restore stamina, as much as it would make sense, shouldn't be added for the simple reason of servers.  You can't have a game dependent mechanic based on coordinating every member of a multiplayer server.  Once again you could convince me otherwise.  I could hear an argument for simply being in a bed restores stamina, like how it instantly sets spawn.  But that would require being able to "sleep" during the day, and carrying a bed around with you just takes up one more inventory slot.

 

Like I said, I'm thinking of a stamina bar that drains slowly. Unless you run everywhere and do tons of stamina-draining things, you most likely will not need to sleep in the daytime(I mean, how many naps do you take normally? I never sleep in day time, and I shouldn't have to sleep every in-game hour). And yes, I was thinking staying in bed should restore stamina(not instantly, but at a pretty fast rate). Not because of servers but because if you needed to skip the night(a.k.a sleep in a wool bed) to get stamina, it will prevent you from recovering stamina effectively until you get a saw and a sheep, and will also make the straw-&-rawhide bed(in 7.8) useless for everything but setting your spawn

Being able to sleep on the ground(no effect whatsoever other than recovering stamina, no spawn-setting or night-skipping) would be very nice, but not needed.

 

So you don't need to carry a bed around unless you plan to do lots and lots of things that drain stamina like nuts(and if you can sleep on the ground, definitely don't need to),

 

 

 

(Might I say I dislike the quote system on this forums, it seems to break sometimes and it's not always easy to tell when the quoted text ends.) 
= = = = =
 
I see what you mean but of those, the firestarter/flint&steel is probably more important and used than tilling with a hoe. At least for me - I till plots where I find a large spread out body of water with near-level land and get to work. Then I'll track nutrient usages and rotate crops. (I even have signs up telling me what to rotate after each planting.) 
 
In short, one use of a hoe on a plot should be pretty much all I need to do. But starting fires is usually one of those things done at rest and not really in a hurry. I think. So these things are kind of not really impactful.
 
What could happen is if you're tired you simply burn alot more food/water doing "strenuous acts" such as tilling, cutting wood, mining, digging, or running. Say, double the usual rate if you're incredibly tired, 150% when reasonably tired. 

(You probably don't have the TFC theme. Go to the bottom of the page, click change theme, choose TFC)

 

Well, starting a fire by rubbing two sticks together takes lots of effort, time, and lots and lots of fast, tireing rubbing. Not easy to do when tired.

And if you ever used a flint & steel, you'll know you have to strike it hard if you don't you don't get sparks(and getting the sparks to say is a whole other matter), but you can still damage the flint & steel. And all you need to do is keep your stamina up in the 'average' state, and I don't think it should be hard to do so. But the draining more hunger/thirst if you get tired and try to do hard acts is a good idea. Normally, if you use up all your energy, your body starts burning fat to make more energy, so it makes sense too

 

I almost guarantee it will get either less use or no use at all. "Heavy" armors don't seem to have a point to me short of keeping an exploding creeper from killing you. A mob of . . . mobs . . . is still going to take you apart heavy armor or no if you can't get away. It's why I adopted the words "armor is useless most of the time" when running around in Vanilla. If I have a lot of leather, then I'll wear stuff. If not? I'll save my armor for the Nether.

 
Since the Nether/End don't exist here, there's precious little call for "suiting up". Of course, this is just my view of the matter. 

 

Well, personally, I thought the nether was the easiest part of vanilla minecraft.

But, anyways, there is always pvp, and a mob of mobs cannot take you apart if you have good enough armor(it's not like you get hundreds, just 20~30 max), and so you don't need armor. Leather will take little resources to make, and won't trouble you as much, so why not wear it? better safe then dead, and who knows when you can get attacked by baby zombies? But like you, this is just my opinion

 

Logistically, I don't see how *carts* could work, but pack animals are almost sure to work once they're solved. And that would be interesting since I could also almost guarantee they'd be the first casualty in an attack since they'd be invariably weaker and easier prey for things to take down unless you actively defended it. 

 
And if I had to clear out caves I'd use the time-tested method . . . of going the heck away and letting stuff despawn or move out into tunnels I could take them at my leisure with little risk. Why charge in and risk dying when you could just get them to come to you through a 1x2 hall and fight them one at a time? 

 

Horse armor, and just taking them a bit of a ways off and leaving them there while you attack.

I mean, say, 50 or so blocks off, there are horses with empty saddlebags, and right in front of me, there are fully armed people trying to invade, so lets go kill the horses?

You won't take the pack animals to battle, you'll leave them somewhere safe after you gear up. And noone will target pack animals unless it has gear, and if it has gear, it'll most likely be in the middle of the army, protected, and everyone will be able to quickly suit up.

 

Any you're saying you can run out, make them de-spawn, then run back, light the whole cave up before the mobs re-spawn?

And even if you do make a 1x2, what's to prevent a skeleton from shooting you full of holes? and the 1x2 corridor method works fine on a few mobs, but if there are too much mobs, or if a baby zombie or two get's through, well, you'll most likely end up dead.

 

 

 

To alcoholic drinks used to recover stamina, alcohol doesn't restore stamina either; drinking alcoholic drinks impairs your judgement and doesn't actually make you less tired. If anything it can make you more tired, and prone to passing out if you strain yourself. Water is good for stamina only if it's a dehydration issue, but alcohol is worse for what it actively does to your system. 

True, true.

Well, it's a game...

But not really the best idea.

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Well, starting a fire by rubbing two sticks together takes lots of effort, time, and lots and lots of fast, tireing rubbing. Not easy to do when tired.

And if you ever used a flint & steel, you'll know you have to strike it hard if you don't you don't get sparks(and getting the sparks to say is a whole other matter), but you can still damage the flint & steel. And all you need to do is keep your stamina up in the 'average' state, and I don't think it should be hard to do so. But the draining more hunger/thirst if you get tired and try to do hard acts is a good idea. Normally, if you use up all your energy, your body starts burning fat to make more energy, so it makes sense too

 

Former Boy Scout here, I did have to do fire-making the hard way (no matches) at least once a month and during some competitions we were even more restricted. I, personally, never got the friction method to really work reliably due to it taking a long long time. I tended to go for flint/steel, but it still failed about as often as it worked. Not because I'm tired but because it's a finicky business. But my troop made it so unless we were specifically in a hurry on a camping trip we would start fires using any method other than 'matches please".

 

Well, personally, I thought the nether was the easiest part of vanilla minecraft.

But, anyways, there is always pvp, and a mob of mobs cannot take you apart if you have good enough armor(it's not like you get hundreds, just 20~30 max), and so you don't need armor. Leather will take little resources to make, and won't trouble you as much, so why not wear it? better safe then dead, and who knows when you can get attacked by baby zombies? But like you, this is just my opinion

 

The Nether was easy if you prepared for it, specifically. Much like everything else in Minecraft, preparation was nine tenths of getting it done. But it could still wind up surprisingly lethal if you were not careful about ghasts and zombie pigmen. Several of those (read 7-10) could tear you apart if you were in iron armor by getting around you and burying you so you didn't have anywhere to run. Likewise, falling into zombies could be dangerous now. 

 

In TFC I've had the experience made more . . . dicey . . . through the Slowness hits on me. Easier to get pinned down and beaten down by "nickles and dimes". 

 

 

Any you're saying you can run out, make them de-spawn, then run back, light the whole cave up before the mobs re-spawn?

And even if you do make a 1x2, what's to prevent a skeleton from shooting you full of holes? and the 1x2 corridor method works fine on a few mobs, but if there are too much mobs, or if a baby zombie or two get's through, well, you'll most likely end up dead.

 

I'm saying it's been a method of mine to reseal a cavern after throwing down a torch quickly, and then run some chunks away and forget about it. Go off to my farm probably several chunks away and work it for a "day" then come back. Things should have despawned. I've ducked congregations of creepers this way already :)

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I disagree that hunger and thirst fills this role. Right now, both of them are nuisance at best. Both degrade at same pace no matter what you do, so it doesn't limit what you do. And refilling them is too easy. Farming is simple and water is only problem before you can make pottery. The long-term stamina system would have those properties. It would limit what you can do and give you options how to remove those limitations.

 

As for heavy armor. Right now, the armor's only property is it's strength. But with stamina system, there could be also weight or "comfort" values. Those would depend on type of armor and material used. Even metals could have other properties other than "this one is better than others". Dwarf Fortress does this, so why not TFC?

 

And about running away from zombies. Thats the point. You should be afraid of night. Not be like "if something bad happens, I just run away". No. Things like that should require preparation. Like having to make good preserved food or clothes that are comfortable. Or making sure you horse is in good condition. 

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 I tended to go for flint/steel, but it still failed about as often as it worked. Not because I'm tired but because it's a finicky business.

 

So if you where trying to do it while tired, it will fail more than normal. It already has a fail chance, I'm just saying being tired should raise that chance.

 

(side note: I just need a random pick, and a few blocks, and maybe some food to take on the nether. My nether 'preparation' is more like, 'hey, do I have a pick? Yep, lets go')

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Because posting another thread is against the rules, I'll just necro this thread.

 

I love this suggestion! Because it is similar with what I had in mind.

 

Biologically, muscles need oxygen. There would be, like, 3 bars, one after another. The first one is the blood oxygen. This level of stamina is quick to decrease and quick to increase. The next one is the myoglobin. This level decreases when blood oxygen reaches 0%, which means it is not enough anymore. It decreases rather slowly and increases a little bit slower. The third level is fatigue. In an oxygen-free enviroment, muscles creates lactic acid instead of metabolizing oxygen. This level of fatigue decreases over a very long time and faster if myoglobin ran out of oxygen. It increases with rest or usage of pads.

 

Soo... it's like this:

Newly spawned:██████████ 100/100/100Swung a sword 5 times:████■■■■□ 43/87/993 days no sleep but doing nothing:██████    56/56/56

Penalties are applied when lactic acid levels are high. When it reaches zero, you die. Simple.

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