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AllenWL

Agriculture and farming ideas

33 posts in this topic

I think agriculture and farming can be really spruced up on TFC.

Farming, especially crops, where a great breakthrough for people.

It gave them surplus food. It gave them time to build and create. It let them settle and make villages and nations.

 

First, You can get most all types of crops by breaking grass and the only thing you have to watch out for is nutrients, and whether the crops get water.

 

I think crops should be affected by temperature as well. The temperature of each area will determine what crops can grow there, and what crops are found.

 

Also, farmland should get different amounts of water depending on how close it is to water. some plants would need lots of water to survive, but some plants cannot take too much water or it will die

 

you should be able to cook with crops to make food that is more filling than the crops are now. all crops currently give 1 unit(star) of hunger, and is not really he most effective of foods.

 

Cooked rice. Craft rice with a bucket of water, and cook in fireplace. rice doesn't have much uses as of now, and it will let you get (somewhat) filling food before you get metal tools or livestock.

 

Fertilizer. Fertilizer can be used to replenish nutrition for the soil at the cost of a slower nutrition recovery rate. using too much fertilizer will result in the soil not recovering fast enough, which can leading to more fertilizer use. also, fertilizer will restore less nutrition to the soil each time it is used.

 

Watering cans.

used to water soil, adding moisture by 1 level.

 

Feeding. Animals have to be 'full' to grow. A animal will grow hungry overtime, and will not eat when full. however, animals will not starve to death(could be a problem in servers if they did; you'll have to check on them so they don't starve when you are away), but will not grow or breed when hungry. You can slightly increase the size of an animal by continuing to keep it well-fed even after it grows up.

 

Breeding. Animals breed naturally when full and healthy. this means that you have to keep your animals fed to get them to breed. 

 

Also, I think you should be able to find food without farming for the beginning of the game. there could be more wild animals and crops, as well as more fruit trees. Farming should need lots of stuff, so you cant start instantly.

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I think crops should be affected by temperature as well. The temperature of each area will determine what crops can grow there, and what crops are found.

 

Crops are currently affected by temperature in that they will go dormant in the winter if it is cold enough, or if the enableCropsDie is set in the config, the crops will disappear altogether.

 

you should be able to cook with crops to make food that is more filling than the crops are now. all crops currently give 1 unit(star) of hunger, and is not really he most effective of foods.

 

The meal system already pretty much does this. The only thing is that it isn't fan of combining all low filling items, so a lot of salads are discouraged.

 

Fertilizer. Fertilizer can be used to replenish nutrition for the soil at the cost of a slower nutrition recovery rate. using too much fertilizer will result in the soil not recovering fast enough, which can leading to more fertilizer use. also, fertilizer will restore less nutrition to the soil each time it is used.

 

Fertilizer has been discussed for a long time now as a way of giving purpose to some of the currently useless minerals. The only exception to fertilizer is that there will be no poop in TFC.

 

Feeding. Animals have to be 'full' to grow. A animal will grow hungry overtime, and will not eat when full. however, animals will not starve to death(could be a problem in servers if they did; you'll have to check on them so they don't starve when you are away), but will not grow or breed when hungry. You can slightly increase the size of an animal by continuing to keep it well-fed even after it grows up..

 

Essentially, this is already implemented in game, however it is hidden. Animals do have a hunger timer which causes them to eat grass, and having a full hunger meter is the only way for animals to regenerate health.

 

Also, I think you should be able to find food without farming for the beginning of the game. there could be more wild animals and crops, as well as more fruit trees. Farming should need lots of stuff, so you cant start instantly.

 

If you look hard enough, there are wild crops everywhere. In my experience, I can usually find at least one wild crop in each 16x16 chunk.

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Feeding. Animals have to be 'full' to grow. A animal will grow hungry overtime, and will not eat when full. however, animals will not starve to death(could be a problem in servers if they did; you'll have to check on them so they don't starve when you are away), but will not grow or breed when hungry. You can slightly increase the size of an animal by continuing to keep it well-fed even after it grows up.

 

Breeding. Animals breed naturally when full and healthy. this means that you have to keep your animals fed to get them to breed.

 

Yeah, animals don't fall in love with each other just because you fed them. They eventually make love as an instinct of reproduction. Maybe feeding them grains would do as AlienWL says. Get them full and satisfied so they breed each other more likely.

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The meal system already pretty much does this. The only thing is that it isn't fan of combining all low filling items, so a lot of salads are discouraged.

 

yes, I know, but the meal system needs at least 2 different foods, and you cant do much with crops as they have low food value. the low food value makes crops not as filling or useful as other foods, because you can't really make meals with them, or get lots of hunger from them. I think crops should be able to be made into different foods with more hunger value(like grains turning into bread) making baked potato with my potatoes or getiing 

 

 

 

 

Essentially, this is already implemented in game, however it is hidden. Animals do have a hunger timer which causes them to eat grass, and having a full hunger meter is the only way for animals to regenerate health.

 

I am aware of this, but this isn't what I want. I want them to grow only when full, and, breed on their own when full. this means that animal farming won't be just sticking them in pens and feeding/breeding them every once in a while. you need to constantly feed and take care of them, or they won't grow or breed. it just makes animal growing more challenging.

 

 

If you look hard enough, there are wild crops everywhere. In my experience, I can usually find at least one wild crop in each 16x16 chunk.

 

I phrased my words incorrctly. what I ment was that I wanted you to be able to get plenty of food from the wild without farming in the beginning, and farming would need more stuff than just a hoe and knife. currently, all you need is a few bags of seed to get a giant farm without too much trouble.

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Crops are currently affected by temperature in that they will go dormant in the winter if it is cold enough, or if the enableCropsDie is set in the config, the crops will disappear altogether.

 

What I want is a bit more than this. If temperature is too cold or hot, crops won't grow, and will instead die. Certain crops can be found in certain biomes with certain temperatures. For example, rice, can only be found in warm planes, and grows best in warm temperature. If you try to plant rice in a area too hot or cold for it to grow, the crops will grow slower, and give less drops. If the temperature difference is too big, the crop dies/will not grow at all/cannot be planted

 

This means that certain crops can only be grown in certain places.

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I have some ideas on the farming.

 

First, I believe we should be able to build greenhouses over crops this is very believable and would keep weather off crops (ie snow). I have never liked the idea of building a glass building for this effect though. I believe we should be able to craft a type of heat insulating block but only when all sides are enclosed... For example a building has 4 walls, a roof, and a floor. These enclose the structure in order to maintain heat but we also need to have some type of heat source. Now I have done a little thinking on heat source and other than fire nothing else seems to fit the mod. Along with this we need to be able to adjust the greenhouse temp with a window (one that can actually open). Place a window on either side and open them both to have the outside air flow through the building adjusting the temp. I believe this will help for those of us who decide to settle in the colder climate areas.

 

Second, I don't understand why our crops have to be next to a water source... It rains in game, and blocks have a rainfall value, so why must crops be next to a source of water? That doesn't really make any sense to me. I understand the ground will stay moist nearer to water but crops don't need constant moisture. As a matter of fact most plants don't need constant moisture. As such you could also add a watering can ( I know this has been mentioned). This will allow for crops not near to water to get moisture when needed by watering them. A watering can can also be used to water plants inside the greenhouse.

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Please add watering cans. This really gives you a big appreciation for rain and farming. Planting crops near water should not hydrate them, that's way too easy. It's one of the things that I extremely hated in Minecraft, you shouldn't be able to plant crops and have them grow without any effort to raise them. Soil that isn't hydrated shouldn't be able to grow crops until it gets hydrated again, basically the crop's growth will be stunned if you don't water it. The first tier for watering cans should begin with pottery, making a ceramic watering can. Afterward you can move onto metal which would provide more durability and maybe the better the watering can, the larger area you can water without watering each space individually. I'm really dying for this mechanic, harvest moon had this concept and it was amazing. I'm not saying we should water our crops daily, but at least every 3 days or so.

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Trenix's post is a bit of a necro, so I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this or not, but crops in TFC do not actually require being planted within 4 blocks of fresh water in order to grow. While hydration will help the crops grow faster, you can indeed plant a crop out in the middle of a field with absolutely no access to water and it will finish its growing cycle before the average growing season is complete.

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Trenix's post is a bit of a necro, so I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this or not, but crops in TFC do not actually require being planted within 4 blocks of fresh water in order to grow. While hydration will help the crops grow faster, you can indeed plant a crop out in the middle of a field with absolutely no access to water and it will finish its growing cycle before the average growing season is complete.

I really don't like that concept, we should be forced to water our crops and not by the means of putting them near a water source. Maintenance is what makes games like these fun, it keeps us involved so we don't get bored so easily.

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Trenix's post is a bit of a necro, so I'm not sure if I've already mentioned this or not, but crops in TFC do not actually require being planted within 4 blocks of fresh water in order to grow. While hydration will help the crops grow faster, you can indeed plant a crop out in the middle of a field with absolutely no access to water and it will finish its growing cycle before the average growing season is complete.

 

You have mentioned this. Its just one of those decisions we really hope falls under the category of "Bioxx hasn't gotten around to changing this yet" instead of "this is a deliberate design choice"

 

 

I really don't like that concept, we should be forced to water our crops and not by the means of putting them near a water source. Maintenance is what makes games like these fun, it keeps us involved so we don't get bored so easily.

 

Why not have both as a option. That way watering/rain and irrigation would both be valid ways to hydrate crops

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Obviously I don't expect new forum users to read through the entire change log archive, but soil saturation due to rain/nearby water was actually part of very old versions of TFC (v2 Build 48). It was removed in Build 53 because it was felt that the system was just too complicated for the very little it added to gameplay.

 

48 Changelog:

  • Soil also has a water saturation level which can be replenished via nearby irrigation or rain (Rain replenishes much better). In the future there will most likely be such a thing as over-saturation for some plants requiring the need to control your irrigation.
  • Crops grow based upon the current temperature, amount of sunlight they receive, water saturation, and time
53 Changelog:
  • Crops have been altered to simplify the code and make using them a tad easier. Water saturation is no longer tracked. A mechanic similar to vanilla is now in place where not having water nearby confers a negative bonus to growth speed.
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Why not have both as a option. That way watering/rain and irrigation would both be valid ways to hydrate crops

Because people don't normally plant their crops next to lakes and rivers, especially in a survival situation. They're prone to wildlife and incests. Also who knows what's the quality of the water and what about floods? Unless all these mechanics can be put in the game, I really don't think it's right for us to exploit the irrigation mechanic. Besides, it makes the game too easy.

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While I agree that many times the crops weren't planted directly on the shore, lakes and rivers were actually a huge part of determining where to settle for agriculture. Take the nile for example, the majority of civilization in that area is essentially right next to the river, because it was such a huge part of agriculture and replenishing of soil nutrients.

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While I agree that many times the crops weren't planted directly on the shore, lakes and rivers were actually a huge part of determining where to settle for agriculture. Take the nile for example, the majority of civilization in that area is essentially right next to the river, because it was such a huge part of agriculture and replenishing of soil nutrients.

There are many more reason for living next to fresh water and I'm not trying to eliminate that, but we just shouldn't be directly next to it or be planting your crops around it. We need to be at least a few feet away from it. In fact, you should also have bears around these areas occasionally to show people the dangers of living next to water. Along with the watering cans, if you do decide to implement them, I highly advise you to look into adding wells to make farming easier at higher elevations or places that are away from water.

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Simplifying the code is fine. The issue I think is unreasonable here is you can grow crops without water

 

And you can make it so crops won't grow without hydrated soil. I know of at least one mod that does this

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Not to rain on anybody's parade here, but....

I live on a hill. There are grasses, trees, the works on this hill.

There is a river, down in the river valley. The distance to the nearest water source is considerable. Yet somehow, plants grow.

 

Plants don't have to be beside a water source to grow. There's this little thing called ground water and rain, that generally take care of the plants. Sure, the vegetation is more dense around rivers and lakes, but plants manage to grow pretty much anywhere. Not having crops grow in a field where grass is already growing would be nonsense....

 

P.S. This thread was almost a year old...

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Not to rain on anybody's parade here, but....

I live on a hill. There are grasses, trees, the works on this hill.

There is a river, down in the river valley. The distance to the nearest water source is considerable. Yet somehow, plants grow.

 

Plants don't have to be beside a water source to grow. There's this little thing called ground water and rain, that generally take care of the plants. Sure, the vegetation is more dense around rivers and lakes, but plants manage to grow pretty much anywhere. Not having crops grow in a field where grass is already growing would be nonsense....

We're not talking about weeds and grass though. Yeah, plants can grow everywhere but have you ever attempted to farm domesticated crops and had them rely on rainwater and a close water source alone? If farming was that easy, everyone would have acres of farmland for themselves. We wouldn't even have to pick them up at the store ever again. I don't know about you but every farmland I've seen required to be watered. Weeds and grass require very low maintenance unlike our domesticated crops. That's why farmers need to find ways to get rid of them because they make growing domesticated crops, more difficult.

 

P.S. This thread was almost a year old...

I would like to start a new thread but it'll end up locked because watering can have already been suggested, so I gotta do what I gotta do. 

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Yes I have. I grew pumpkins on the side of that very same hill, and they turned out quite well. If there's enough water to grow a tree, it's dollars to donuts that you can grow crops as well.

 

I don't know if the forum admins would agree with this, but:

 

There's a difference between suggesting something that has already been suggested and necroing a year old thread. When you revive a thread such as this one, you're doing the idea a disservice. The people who started the thread are likely long gone, so they won't be pitching in. New people aren't going to be in the mood to read the entire thing. I think your best bet would be to start a fresh thread, where you take the good ideas from the old thread and breathe new life into them. That way you have a more organized opening post that clearly lists all the ideas so that less reading inclined people can get an idea of where the discussion currently stands. There's a reason that new threads appear at the top of the list, and old threads fade away. The community had nothing more to say. If you feel like a topic bears more discussion, then do us all a favour and make a new thread so that we don't have to read a year+ old conversation. Not to mention that after a year, the game has gone through radical changes. The balancing concerns we had back then might not even be relavant now.

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I will agree with that reasoning, but with a single exception.

 

If a new topic is created solely to breathe life into discussion that has already taken place in an older thread, then those older threads need to be linked at the very top of the new topic. I am also going to throw in a 6 month rule as that seems to be the common amount of time between major releases lately. I.E. You may create a new topic, which links to an older topic, to breathe new life into the discussion if, and only if, the very last post in the older topic is at a bare minimum 6 months old. Obviously, this one single topic can have an exception to the 6 month rule.

 

The whole point of encouraging necros rather than a new topic was to stop the duplicate discussions that kept happening. If duplicate discussions start popping up again, and the feeling of the suggestions forum simply become a place to beat a dead horse returns, the old rules will be put back in place.

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Yes I have. I grew pumpkins on the side of that very same hill, and they turned out quite well. If there's enough water to grow a tree, it's dollars to donuts that you can grow crops as well.

I read into dry farming and you're right it is possible. However it's challenging and involves a lot of luck. All crops will behave differently in those conditions and you're always on the edge with them. Even location matters, so every spot will act differently. Lets say that it doesn't rain for a while, there goes your whole field. Maybe instead of stopping your crops from growing from the lack of water, they would instead have a chance of dying, yielding nothing. Therefore you could get away with dry farming your crops, but you're putting them at risk for doing so. 

I don't know if the forum admins would agree with this, but:

 

There's a difference between suggesting something that has already been suggested and necroing a year old thread. When you revive a thread such as this one, you're doing the idea a disservice. The people who started the thread are likely long gone, so they won't be pitching in. New people aren't going to be in the mood to read the entire thing. I think your best bet would be to start a fresh thread, where you take the good ideas from the old thread and breathe new life into them. That way you have a more organized opening post that clearly lists all the ideas so that less reading inclined people can get an idea of where the discussion currently stands. There's a reason that new threads appear at the top of the list, and old threads fade away. The community had nothing more to say. If you feel like a topic bears more discussion, then do us all a favour and make a new thread so that we don't have to read a year+ old conversation. Not to mention that after a year, the game has gone through radical changes. The balancing concerns we had back then might not even be relavant now.

I agree with you entirely, but kittychanley has been locking my threads because some of my ideas have already been suggested. I also don't like the idea of reading through an old suggestion's thread, it's off-putting.

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I will agree with that reasoning, but with a single exception.

 

If a new topic is created solely to breathe life into discussion that has already taken place in an older thread, then those older threads need to be linked at the very top of the new topic. I am also going to throw in a 6 month rule as that seems to be the common amount of time between major releases lately. I.E. You may create a new topic, which links to an older topic, to breathe new life into the discussion if, and only if, the very last post in the older topic is at a bare minimum 6 months old. Obviously, this one single topic can have an exception to the 6 month rule.

 

The whole point of encouraging necros rather than a new topic was to stop the duplicate discussions that kept happening. If duplicate discussions start popping up again, and the feeling of the suggestions forum simply become a place to beat a dead horse returns, the old rules will be put back in place.

If I'm going to be forced to link a bunch of old threads to start a new thread, I mind as well just write in the old thread. This idea is also going to cause a lot of necroing, causing more duplicates to appear, making it counteractive. Why not just auto lock threads which are 6 months old?

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Regarding ''dry farming''. Most of european and american farms are in fact not watered at all. Watering a field that is dozens or hundreds of hectares is no easy task, and generates extremely high costs. Practically watering is done only if working in small scale or planting on a desert. And it is true that sometimes there are droughts and plants die or yeld much smaller amounts. But most of the time they work really well without irrigation.

Also, you don't grow everything of your own becouse it takes a lot of farmland and a lot of time and a lot of money to grow all crops for a single family. Farms are focused mostly on one-two products, and most of them, especially in america, are thousends of hectares. So having to water your plants is not believable at all. Having to get rid of weeds would be much more believable, but would add nothing to a game than another mindless chore. I have enough of it in real life, no need for a game to force me to do it.

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Regarding ''dry farming''. Most of european and american farms are in fact not watered at all. Watering a field that is dozens or hundreds of hectares is no easy task, and generates extremely high costs. Practically watering is done only if working in small scale or planting on a desert. And it is true that sometimes there are droughts and plants die or yeld much smaller amounts. But most of the time they work really well without irrigation.Also, you don't grow everything of your own becouse it takes a lot of farmland and a lot of time and a lot of money to grow all crops for a single family. Farms are focused mostly on one-two products, and most of them, especially in america, are thousends of hectares. So having to water your plants is not believable at all. Having to get rid of weeds would be much more believable, but would add nothing to a game than another mindless chore. I have enough of it in real life, no need for a game to force me to do it.

This exactly.

 

It's simply not true that crops require additional irrigation apart from rain if they're planted in a reasonable area. Yes, if you plant them somewhere where there isn't enough rain, then growing crops is gonna be hard. But you can't seriously believe that people always watered all their crops by hand, especially in, say, medieval times and before. No pipes. No easy way to transport large amounts of water. No rain, no crops. But unless it was a drought, crops grew just fine.

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If all this is true, then mind as well just leave out the whole hydration concept. It's not like we're living in a desert for hydration to even matter anyway. Also water doesn't actually make crops grow faster, so by keeping this irrigation mechanic you're making it become mandatory. Why would we plant anywhere away from water when it'll be less efficient?

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If you plant crops near water/irrigate them, those plants will not be affected by seasonal droughts that hapen when there is no rain for a month or so. And without water crops don't grow. So actually planting near water/irrigating will make your crops grow faster most of the time, unless you have a very rainy season. At the same time crops without this will grow as well, only slower.

And we don't irrigate all fields IRL becouse it is to expensive to do if you're far away from water source such as lake, many water sources such as rivers are polluted and would do no good for your crops, and space that contains farmland suitable for irrigation is finite and much much smaller than what we need.

All in all the mechanic is believable enough, and while I liked the old mechanic better (in fact I thought it was still in place, but whatever :P) I can clearly see the reasoning behind removing it.

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