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AllenWL

Diverse Gameplay. Not just Mining (plus a few things like durability, breaking blocks, smiting, mining, etc)

19 posts in this topic

I think the gameplay aspect of TFC can be worked on a bit.

Right now, Mining and smiting is all we do, and farming is really just if you can find animals.

I feel that the reason for this, is because

1. Mining, and getting better ores, is really the goal of the mod. you climb up the red/blue steel, gain the ability to move water and lava, get the best tools, then spend the rest of your game life building, eating, and fighting.

2. If you don't mine, there's mot much alternatives. Stay on stone age forever? fine, but monsters will kill you most of the time, you cant make beds, or buckets, or doors, etc. Life becomes tedious, boring, and somewhat tiring.

3. Crops suck. It takes much too long to eat enough to get full(once ate for a full minute) and meat is a much better alternitive, meaning the only crops actively farmed, are grains to breed animals

4. without ores, there's not much you can do. just farm, live in a thatch cube, and afk in a puddle all night. Not really the most exiting way to play.

 

But why should be mining and making alloys(and the occasional animal breeding) be the only way to survive? To get better tools and weapons?

Lots of people survived without metal, and you can survive without mining or metal tools, it's possible. So why can't we have a alternative to mining?

 

I think we should be able to get things that take time and effort to get, but is worth it. and alternative to mining.

Just like you can farm for some food and use most of your time mining, you should be able to do something else, and spend a little time mining, and not fall behind, or have to use worse things.

 

I think farming and animal breeding should take longer, and be harder.

Farm work never ends, not really, and it's not a plop down seeds, come back later for crops.

Each crops should have different needs to attend to, weeds and pests to be taken care of. And fruit trees should be trimmed and cut, animals fed and given water. But a well-grown crops and animals should give more, and better food, and You should be able to refine, mix, and cook each and every crops and meat to get better foods Farming should be something that needs time and skill.

 

There should also be herbs. Herbs would be used for brewing teas and potions, making salves and poisons.

herbs should be hard to find and harder to grow, discouraging mass production. Herbs would grow slowly, and making potions and such would be tricky to get right, but could be a huge asset if done right. You can grind herbs to make salves to heal, or dry them and mix them to make tea, or brew the herbs, extract poison, and more. Each herb should have different effects(sometimes more than one) that can be mixed, reduced, boosted, to make better brews. The effects of herbs should not be shown, so each player has to experiment to find out what they do.

 

Hunting and gathering should also be a way of earning. Hunting should get you different pelts and hides that are better than leather, teeth, bones, etc that can be used. There should be wild berries and plants. some poisons, and while it can sustain you, it would take a experienced person to tell a poisons berry apart from a edible one. Animals and people should have a chance to leave tracks, depending on the ground. The tracks should disappear in time, but experienced hunters should be able to track game and players this way. Animals should also be drawn to water, grass, etc, so a experienced hunter can lay traps to catch his pray.

 

Mining should be harder as well. visible ores(ore blocks) should be rare, and drop rich ores, and some ores would be hard to see(only a speck or a light coloring) and most should be found only with the help of a prospecting pick. Ores should also have a chance to be damaged if not mined right.

The mining ores can be done by pick or chisel, a chisel would break 1 'layer' and a pick would break 3 'layers' An ore would have a certain amount of 'layers' covering it. If a can be mined like smooth stone, but you can only use it if uncovered. each time you break the ore with a pick or a chisel would remove the appropriate layers. If you remove too much, it will degrade the ore. The amount of layers can be randomized each time.

 

Making tools shouldn't be just done on molds and anvils. You should have to 'refine' a tool by sharpening,tempering, etc to get it right. otherwise, it would be slower, weaker, less durable, than what it can be

 

Unknown metal is given if you mess up your alloys. I think you should also get other items for messing up.

For example, if you mess up on cooking, you get burned food, if you mess up on brewing, you get sludge, etc

 

Each work (mining, farming, herbilism, hunting, smiting. tracking) should be able to be done by novices, to some degree, and people should be able to do all of it, but each should be hard enough, and require time and skill. So while you can grow herbs and farm and hunt and mine, you'll take a longer time to learn(you'll be busy, and unable to get the finer points) and most of the crops/herbs would die of neglect. Each work will take time and effort to get skilled in, and once you get skilled in a certain field, you'll be able to do more with it, to get more things, better things.

 

On the same note, just because you never learned how to farm, doesn't mean you can grow food to eat, and just because you didn't learn to mine, doesn't mean you need to live on stone tools, and just because you don't have any smithing experience, doesn't mean you can't make tools. You can still farm and get food, you can still make tools, you can still mine for metals. You'll just take longer to do it, and get less out of it. But you can still do it.

 

Instead of having a block insta-regenerate when you stop hitting it, I think a block should get damaged for every hit, and when it gets damaged enough, it breaks. Appropriately, durability should be counted per hit, not per blocks broken. Each blocks has different 'health' and each tools deals different 'damage' per type and tier. Using the wrong tool would only give one block damage while giving the tool a double damage penalty.

 

(note: I'l edit this whenever an idea comes up, so I'd like other ideas!)

(side note: um, how do you make spoiler tags?)

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Since this topic breaks the "Start a new thread for each suggestion." found in the pinned rules, but still has valid discussion and all of the topics relate to each other, I have moved it to the discussion forum where it is better suited to flesh out ideas before suggesting each individual topic.

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No. The main reason for this is because Minecraft is about mining and placing blocks. Trying to do anything else would require massive effort from developers, because Minecraft is not made for this kind of extension. I'm pretty sure everything you suggested Dunk&Bioxx already thought off. And they just don't have time to implement it right now and are focussing on more interesting stuff.

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While these are all great points, the entire post is moot when you realise one thing.

 

TFC is still waaay WIP. like, we haven't even hit a 1.0 build yet. so the reason that there isn't really anything fleshed out in any other area of this mod, is because we just haven't gotten to it yet. the dev's are making sure that the mining and metallurgey portions of this mod are complete and exactly the way they want them before moving onto other things. Eventually this mod will have fully drawn out portions in other areas such as foresrty, farming, survival ect. ya just gotta remember that this mod is still nowhere even close to being complete.

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Since this topic breaks the "Start a new thread for each suggestion." found in the pinned rules, but still has valid discussion and all of the topics relate to each other, I have moved it to the discussion forum where it is better suited to flesh out ideas before suggesting each individual topic.

 

Oops

 

 

No. The main reason for this is because Minecraft is about mining and placing blocks. Trying to do anything else would require massive effort from developers, because Minecraft is not made for this kind of extension. I'm pretty sure everything you suggested Dunk&Bioxx already thought off. And they just don't have time to implement it right now and are focussing on more interesting stuff.

 

While these are all great points, the entire post is moot when you realise one thing.

 

TFC is still waaay WIP. like, we haven't even hit a 1.0 build yet. so the reason that there isn't really anything fleshed out in any other area of this mod, is because we just haven't gotten to it yet. the dev's are making sure that the mining and metallurgey portions of this mod are complete and exactly the way they want them before moving onto other things. Eventually this mod will have fully drawn out portions in other areas such as foresrty, farming, survival ect. ya just gotta remember that this mod is still nowhere even close to being complete.

 

 

While I agree that Mining and metallurgy and such should be done first, I also believe that other aspects of the game should be fleshed out as well.

Not right now, since it's in beta and there is work to be done, but I believe the other aspects should be fleshed out sooner or later

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Oops

 

 

 

 

While I agree that Mining and metallurgy and such should be done first, I also believe that other aspects of the game should be fleshed out as well.

Not right now, since it's in beta and there is work to be done, but I believe the other aspects should be fleshed out sooner or later

Well, if you had actually read my post, i said that the other areas will be done eventually, it's just that metalurgey is being completed before

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I would say that Metallurgy and Mining should be the top priority, because they are essentially one of the most important, if not the most important, aspects in TFC. Making it fun and interesting while also challenging will be time-consuming and difficult, so I think that's why the developers would focus on these aspects. 

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Well, if you had actually read my post, i said that the other areas will be done eventually, it's just that metalurgey is being completed before

 

I know. and what I meant is although the mining and such should be done first, I think it'd be worth it if the other aspects were worked on as well, like little at a time

As in right now, along with the metallurgy and other stuff, tweaks on animals and spawns and such are being done as well. I think the gameplay things should be a part of the misc things that are being worked on along with the metallurgy. They don't have to get the mining and metallurgy done 100% before they do some other stuff, they just have to prioritize it.

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Sigh, maybe i wasn't clear in my explanation

 

Other things will be worked on and developed in TFC, and i wasn't saying that mining/metalurgey are the most important

it's just the fact that they are what's being worked on in TFC right now, everything else will be done in time.

 

This is going to be a long process folks, we're tackling aspects of the game one at a time, and it just happened to be that metallurgey was the one that was taken on first.

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I really don't understand the people who are saying that the suggestions are premature.

 

While it's true that TFC is a WIP and is rightfully starting with metallurgy/mining, it is never too early to start nudging the future direction of the mod in a way you might find enjoyable.  After all, farming, animal husbandry, etc, HAVE been fleshed out somewhat already, and if you don't get your ideas out there, the soon to be implemented systems could lock out your ideas.  

 

Anyway, They are all good ideas, though I'm not too sure weeding should be implemented.  Realistic, yes, but seriously boring.  It is a game first.

 

The hunting and especially tracking and trapping ideas are great.

 

Not so sure about the herbalism.  Either it would be magic, or it would require diseases to treat and such, which I don't think they want to implement.  I could see maybe antidotes for poisonous mobs and maybe poisoned arrows or something. 

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Not so sure about the herbalism.  Either it would be magic, or it would require diseases to treat and such, which I don't think they want to implement.  I could see maybe antidotes for poisonous mobs and maybe poisoned arrows or something. 

 

Well, I know that most people don't want magic in TFC. And I agree compleatly that stuff like spells, enchantments, magic gear, wands, and all that will not only be totally awkward in TFC, but also useless and a waste of time and effort, I also think that some things could be added to TFC and will add to the gameplay.

Ancient people had tons of charms, potions, salves, etc, and hundreds of people who made them. Also, I feel that herbalism will not stand out that much from the game, and while potion effects in minecraft are 'magic' as long as we avoid the really impossible ones, like water breathing and fire resistance, I feel it can fit right in with the game.

So what I have in mind for herbalism is

 

1. tea. The basics of herbalism, and the easiest to make, small subtle effects, like making thirst/hunger drain slower, making you more 'awake'(work faster, mayhaps?), etc.

2. Potions. A stronger mix of herbs, and harder to make. Both harmful and helpful effects can be made. (Note: not heaing, but stuff like speed. strength, etc)

3. Salves. The strongest healing mix a herbalist can make, it is extremely difficult to make, but can heal most minor wounds and can help speed recovery.

4. Poisons. The strongest harming mix a herbalist can make. It takes lots of resources to make, and is extremely tricky to get right. Can be applied to darts

 

Salves and poisons will be stored in bottles untill it it time to use them, then applied to bandages/weapons/etc. A unbotteled salve/poison will quickly lose it's potency, and poisons should not be able to take enough hearts to kill, unless it takes lots of time and resources(like, over 5 hours to grow/prepare resources, and another 30~60 min to make it) to make, and even then will only yeald a small amount. Each and every processes of preparing/growing herbs and making tea/potions/salve/poison will have to be closely monitored and carefully controlled or else it can be wasted, or have consequences(like blowing up, which will not be too bad(provided you have like, tons of stuff) if you where making a helpful thing, if you where making, say a poison and it blew up. Then you'd die).

Processing and making salve/potions/etc will take lots of water, herbs, time, fuel, and also take lots of equipment(easily made from base metals, glass, and clay, but unless you are a miner, not that easy[but not that hard either])

 

Anyway, They are all good ideas, though I'm not too sure weeding should be implemented.  Realistic, yes, but seriously boring.  It is a game first.

 

What I was thinking is when I said weeds, is weeds will not kill crops. It will just lower productivity. You can get some crops, plant em near water(and hope you didn't under/over water them), and wander off, and you'll still get enough to get some food and continue farming(more or less), but you won't get a lot. If you want to be a farmer, then yes, you need to take care of weeds and other stuff, but you don't need to do it, you can just plant n wait, like you do now. It just won't give you as much

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Well, I know that most people don't want magic in TFC. And I agree compleatly that stuff like spells, enchantments, magic gear, wands, and all that will not only be totally awkward in TFC, but also useless and a waste of time and effort, I also think that some things could be added to TFC and will add to the gameplay.

Ancient people had tons of charms, potions, salves, etc, and hundreds of people who made them. Also, I feel that herbalism will not stand out that much from the game, and while potion effects in minecraft are 'magic' as long as we avoid the really impossible ones, like water breathing and fire resistance, I feel it can fit right in with the game.

So what I have in mind for herbalism is

 

1. tea. The basics of herbalism, and the easiest to make, small subtle effects, like making thirst/hunger drain slower, making you more 'awake'(work faster, mayhaps?), etc.

2. Potions. A stronger mix of herbs, and harder to make. Both harmful and helpful effects can be made. (Note: not heaing, but stuff like speed. strength, etc)

3. Salves. The strongest healing mix a herbalist can make, it is extremely difficult to make, but can heal most minor wounds and can help speed recovery.

4. Poisons. The strongest harming mix a herbalist can make. It takes lots of resources to make, and is extremely tricky to get right. Can be applied to darts

 

Salves and poisons will be stored in bottles untill it it time to use them, then applied to bandages/weapons/etc. A unbotteled salve/poison will quickly lose it's potency, and poisons should not be able to take enough hearts to kill, unless it takes lots of time and resources(like, over 5 hours to grow/prepare resources, and another 30~60 min to make it) to make, and even then will only yeald a small amount. Each and every processes of preparing/growing herbs and making tea/potions/salve/poison will have to be closely monitored and carefully controlled or else it can be wasted, or have consequences(like blowing up, which will not be too bad(provided you have like, tons of stuff) if you where making a helpful thing, if you where making, say a poison and it blew up. Then you'd die).

Processing and making salve/potions/etc will take lots of water, herbs, time, fuel, and also take lots of equipment(easily made from base metals, glass, and clay, but unless you are a miner, not that easy[but not that hard either])

 

 

What I was thinking is when I said weeds, is weeds will not kill crops. It will just lower productivity. You can get some crops, plant em near water(and hope you didn't under/over water them), and wander off, and you'll still get enough to get some food and continue farming(more or less), but you won't get a lot. If you want to be a farmer, then yes, you need to take care of weeds and other stuff, but you don't need to do it, you can just plant n wait, like you do now. It just won't give you as much

Okay, I can get behind that form of herbalism.  Like coffee for a mild haste effect, etc.

 

As far as the farming, you'd need to make it so that it requires quite a bit of management just to feed yourself, but that with better tools (maybe a horse drawn plow?) you could produce much more than you need.  That way you get a sort of economy where smiths and miners can't actually produce enough food to eat, and farmers need their metal tools to farm.  Some sort of exponential system where specialization gives a much higher payoff, but where generalization is still viable but extremely slow.  So a plow might require 32 double ingots (you need a full time miner/smith), but it allows you to produce 8 times more food or something.  But if you want to, you can divide your time between farming and mining and still get by.  Maybe miners would need something like a ton of leather to make something like the prospector's pick, and the herder would need a ton of food to feed the animals to produce the leather.  And maybe the farmer needs a ton of bone meal and rotten flesh, making the adventurer required.  Preferably, there would be several such systems in place to make a tiered progression.

 

If you didn't do this, if you made it so that full time miners could get by by just planting a larger farm and forgetting about it, there would be little reason to invest your time into producing more than you needed, which would make the whole system pointless.

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You guys are having a little argument in here I see. Noodles is right, for the most part (not in any small part because I talk to her frequently about our ideas for the mod in general).

 

At it's core, TFC involves a lot of metallurgy. It may not be what we want the mod to focus on as an end-product, but it's what we have. It's the most fleshed-out and solid system we have at the moment, and acts as an anchor for other features. It's by no means complete, per se. As we strengthen it and fill it out, it can support other features of the game that we'd like to implement, building off the systems and tools we develop while implementing it. It just isn't solid enough at this point in time to really build a game off of.

 

That said, we're aware that TFC can be very linear as it is, and fleshing out other features will help make the game more enjoyable, and we're working towards a state of the game in which we can focus our attentions on those aspects.

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If you didn't do this, if you made it so that full time miners could get by by just planting a larger farm and forgetting about it, there would be little reason to invest your time into producing more than you needed, which would make the whole system pointless.

Well, I'd like it so people can survive single player and still get by without having to be a farmer/miner/smith/everything. So for the farming, You can get enough food to get by if you plant like 640 crops, but without proper care, over 3/4 would die, and you'd get enough food so you don't die. So if alone, you'll have to learn the basics of everything, but you don't need to specialize, you can just go with the basics. and get enough to get by, but it'll take a long time.

 

So one person can get metals to make tools, crops to eat, some tea, and ok tools for one, in say, 3~5 hours of work, but a team of one miner, one farmer, one smith, and one herbalist can get plenty of metals to give everyone tools, food for everyone to eat, plus extras, potions and tea for extra productivity, and high-grade tools, in say, an hour or so.

 

 

You guys are having a little argument in here I see. Noodles is right, for the most part (not in any small part because I talk to her frequently about our ideas for the mod in general).

 

At it's core, TFC involves a lot of metallurgy. It may not be what we want the mod to focus on as an end-product, but it's what we have. It's the most fleshed-out and solid system we have at the moment, and acts as an anchor for other features. It's by no means complete, per se. As we strengthen it and fill it out, it can support other features of the game that we'd like to implement, building off the systems and tools we develop while implementing it. It just isn't solid enough at this point in time to really build a game off of.

 

That said, we're aware that TFC can be very linear as it is, and fleshing out other features will help make the game more enjoyable, and we're working towards a state of the game in which we can focus our attentions on those aspects.

 

Ok, we'll just be here discussing what could be nice if added, and hope it gets added when the mod is advanced enough to start going for other aspects

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Well, I'd like it so people can survive single player and still get by without having to be a farmer/miner/smith/everything. So for the farming, You can get enough food to get by if you plant like 640 crops, but without proper care, over 3/4 would die, and you'd get enough food so you don't die. So if alone, you'll have to learn the basics of everything, but you don't need to specialize, you can just go with the basics. and get enough to get by, but it'll take a long time.

 

So one person can get metals to make tools, crops to eat, some tea, and ok tools for one, in say, 3~5 hours of work, but a team of one miner, one farmer, one smith, and one herbalist can get plenty of metals to give everyone tools, food for everyone to eat, plus extras, potions and tea for extra productivity, and high-grade tools, in say, an hour or so.

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say; balance it to reward specialization, but allow for generalization to still be viable.  So the generalist should be able to grow enough food for themselves, and mine some, but the miner should be able to mine a LOT more but be unable to support her food needs.

 

Maybe as the player progresses and gains access to higher tier implements, these limitations could be eased.  Or maybe more pronounced... not sure which would be better.

 

It will probably be tricky to balance out, but I think the results would be worth it.

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You guys are having a little argument in here I see. Noodles is right, for the most part (not in any small part because I talk to her frequently about our ideas for the mod in general).

 

At it's core, TFC involves a lot of metallurgy. It may not be what we want the mod to focus on as an end-product, but it's what we have. It's the most fleshed-out and solid system we have at the moment, and acts as an anchor for other features. It's by no means complete, per se. As we strengthen it and fill it out, it can support other features of the game that we'd like to implement, building off the systems and tools we develop while implementing it. It just isn't solid enough at this point in time to really build a game off of.

 

That said, we're aware that TFC can be very linear as it is, and fleshing out other features will help make the game more enjoyable, and we're working towards a state of the game in which we can focus our attentions on those aspects.

But metallurgy is not the only thing you have.  You have fruit trees and tons of crops and new mobs and you're adding horses into the mix soon(ish).  Now is the time to be talking about these considerations, even if they won't be implemented soon.

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Sorry guys, this is a bit of a necro, but i havn't been lurking for a while so im only just starting to catch up on things.

 

ALLEN, i can see where you are trying to come from with getting people to be specialists of their respective fields.

This has been suggested multiple times, and i believe that it can effectivly work on multiplayer, increasing the skill, and the economic side. The problem that we have at the moment, is that it is too easy for people to enter that respective field, and become the best at that field with only a little bit of practice. This allows them to get the best out of what they produce. I think that making it harder to enter the trade will cause people to master that trade.

You suggested having crops be harder to grow, requiring work etc. Lets use this as an example.

 

1 way that we can make it harder for people to become the "master" of a field is to make the top tier item so expensive, so that it's only worth it if you need to supply multiple people. EG. If plowing came into play with crops, we could have normal plows and hoes, for the day to day jobs and casual people, but for those people who needed to produce large amounts of crops, in the least amount of area or time (efficiency) they could use a animal pulled plow. This would be produced out of an amazing amount of double ingots, so would be rather expensive. This would stop casual farmers from using the plow as for their small amount of production, the metal isn't worth it, however for a farmer who produces for a town, the positives would outway the negitives of the cost.

 

 

 

Edit: I think i'm now finished, i hope i didn't ramble on to much. + the i think i read your name correctly this time.

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Alien,

 

Congrats, you are the first person here to call me alien. :D

really, for some reason, every server & forum I go to, someone calls me alien at least once

 

Anyways, I'd like to expand on each idea, writing down every idea I had for each section.

Should I do that here, or post it in segments in the suggestions forum?

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