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AllenWL

One Single Giant Server

Merge all servers?   22 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we merge all servers into one Giant server?

    • yes
      12
    • no
      7
    • maybe
      3

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

22 posts in this topic

While TFC is fun, it's more of a multyplayer than single player game.

However, big communities and large towns on servers is hard due to the lack of players.

We have 232 listed servers, and how many players in the TFC community?

I think we should unite the servers in one giant official server.

This way, we will have enough players to really make something.

The only limit we have right now, is that there isn't enough players online, so most players

end up living by themselves or in small groups, and everyone ends up separated.

But if we have enough players, we'll be able to make bigger settlements, bigger builds, and we'll be able to do more than what we could do alone.

 

But lots of people might not want to lose their builds, or go from server owner/admin/mod to player.

So I suggest that the new server be made up of huge continents in a vast sea.

The continents will be maps of different servers, copied and pasted onto the main server map via programs like mcedit

each continent will represent a server, and will have owners/mods/etc for the continent.

Each continents will be separated by the ocean, but be close enough to visit/move to/trade with.

When a player comes on for the first time, they will be able to choose what continent to go to.

 

So, what do you guys think about this idea?

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A large server sounds very hard to manage, easy to grief and could turn into a large pain overall.

 

On the other hand, TFC is designed to be played multiplayer, and might function very well on such a scale, possibly more so than many other mods, for the involvement in multiplayer anyway. It can be difficult to join an existing faction on a TFC server or compete with one, so that might be interesting. Now that I think about it, TFC could probably be better suited for multiplayer with a few changes to how the game is set up, specifically to encourage trade more. That seems important.

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Would this topic be more relevant in the Servers board?

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The trouble with having lots of players on the same server is that TFC is prone to crashing, especially due to sequoias, which some have said is fixed in B78. Crashing is especially detrimental to a server population as most players are not really loyal to any particular server or committed to playing TFC for long periods of time, and so any little distraction like a crash will see them finding something else to do with their time. While griefing is an issue on a vanilla TFC server, this is easily remedied by chunk claiming mods like MyTown.

 

There is another problem, which is that there really isn't much of a game or depth in TFC, despite all the work in adding game mechanics. You can only go through the hassle of making red/blue steel anvils so many times before you start looking for a greater experience. For a veteran player, the struggle for resources is typically quite brief and there really aren't any other threats to the player's survival after the first few in-game weeks.

 

Also I'm not sure you could get server owners to agree to the same rules, configurations or mods. Lots of players are also particular about the server setup. New players tend to want a vanilla TFC experience, without mods.

 

I've added many of the popular TFC servers to my server list to see how many people are playing at any given time, and it seems there are typically less than 10-15 on at peak times. Since we started a new iteration of our server on Dec 1, we've seen roughly 70 unique players, and typically see 6-9 people on during peak hours. Very few seem to stick around for longer than a week or two, there just isn't enough holding their attention.

 

So I don't think this effort will yield any greater server population, TFC itself needs to be changed to encourage more interesting multiplayer experiences. I hope you prove me wrong. =)

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And man, sadly, we can't do it, because, plus all the aforementioned reasons, the servers have different mods each other. Carpe Aurum is the only server with carpenter's blocks. Tomatonet is the only server with all the mods. Many actual servers only have TFC (the "vanilla" servers) there will be great incompatibility issues, as some people prefer to play TFC with mods, while others like plain TFC. It's not easy. And some servers are whitelisted, others not. You are making server owners do things they don't like to. But I understand it would be sweet to trade between continents, but once again, I wish that was easy. So... we will have to remain with 1 player - 2 player towns. What I hate from FoxTopia server, is that surviving alone is encouraged. Isn't that bad to the community?

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I think a vanilla "official" server would be cool, have the IP posted on the front of the website. But merging all of the servers would never work.As for large towns, my town on Zandrov's server currently holds about 20 players, of which about 10 are active. Depending on what you call large, you may count this.Yes, I agree that it would be awesome to see a server with 50+ players average, but its almost impossible.

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Yes, I agree that it would be awesome to see a server with 50+ players average, but its almost impossible.

 

What we need, is to kick out of beta and make the mod popular. One day we will end like Tekkit. We just need to cooperate, report bugs, suggest stuff, so that both issues are fixed and features added. That way beta will soon be history, and more people will be attracted to the mod.

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What we need, is to kick out of beta and make the mod popular. One day we will end like Tekkit. We just need to cooperate, report bugs, suggest stuff, so that both issues are fixed and features added. That way beta will soon be history, and more people will be attracted to the mod.

 

 

But no pressure, right? :P

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Despite TFC being the best incarnation by far of MC it (possibly of a necessity) continues some of its major flaws. A few thoughts..... maybe only one if I get tired....

 

a)The way "monsters" pop in and out just because it gets dark was a clever trick during development but it is absurd now. Many people have said they should change to more "realistic" mobs but I say this is wrong-minded as the essential flaw remains. Mobs need to have some reason to be where they are that is NOT based on light level. Most hostile mobs should spawn in defined groups with a defined purpose....pride of lions, neanderthal village, etc. Perhaps some sorta boogie man could spawn underground near ore bodies to protect it from the players. In all cases there should NOT be endless spawnings based on light level or other arbitrary criterion.. surely we are past the charms of that mechanic.

 

B) Players can do way too much.... skills seems not a bad solution but there will need to be a vast difference between the work of skilled and unskilled players. Maybe without a "mining" skill you can't dig below level 100.... just a thought. No farming skill?..... not every seed you plant actually produces a result.

 

c) Food is a joke after the first while.... this really needs to change. I am considering (alarm bells) eliminating ALL food production from our server (Roanoke 5) with the only way to obtain it is through purchase from a vendor..... mad idea but I am being driven to extremes.

 

d)Our capacity to carry stuff is MADNESS!! And now we have bloody "vessels" to make it crazier! Personally I refuse to use the them as an aid to carrying stuff but we have players clamoring for "backpacks" to exacerbate the problem... truly I despair!  Some sorta cart (ancient warfare mod has a brilliant one) is desperately needed as currently we can carry according to my calculations 83 or so TRUCKLOADS of logs!! (I work in the forest industry so this especially galls me). A wheelbarrow, a wagon, a packhorse... anything to help here would be awesome.

 

Sorry... went a bit monkey there..... must be the altitude.  I apologize if I have offended the mod-makers and thank them again for this amazing venue for playing MC. I also recognize I might be a bit off topic too so please feel free to move this where appropriate.

 

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

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B) Players can do way too much.... skills seems not a bad solution but there will need to be a vast difference between the work of skilled and unskilled players. Maybe without a "mining" skill you can't dig below level 100.... just a thought. No farming skill?..... not every seed you plant actually produces a result.

c) Food is a joke after the first while.... this really needs to change. I am considering (alarm bells) eliminating ALL food production from our server (Roanoke 5) with the only way to obtain it is through purchase from a vendor..... mad idea but I am being driven to extremes.

 

A... are you mad?!

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The developers are prioritizing Metallurgy and Mining over everything else, since they are the biggest features in TFC, Bbush. It will take a long while to get everything necessary for a true TFC experience in, since it is mostly two coders who can only code on their free times.

 

TFC is still in early beta, and I think the longevity of the development process will be almost as long as Dwarf Fortress. DF is huge, and it will probably take another ten years to complete, but with TFC, it might take around five more years, or so, until TFC finally reaches the 1.0 stage.

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How? You can't merge different servers so the "big" server uses CPU and memory from those small servers. And to be able to support so many players, you would need some beastly hardware. And that costs lots of money to buy and support. 

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Well, it seems the biggest problems are
1. takes too much resources to run such a big server.
2. different mods and add-ons makes comparability hard, if not impossible.
3. the lack if things to do and many bugs makes it hard to hold the players for a long time.
 
The best way seems to be to make a Official server, move the mod out of beta, advertise, and hope people move to the public server
 
Basically, we are not yet at the stage, and do not have the ability or people to have a big, official server, and we must wait till we can make such a big server.
 
But I think TFC will be much better with a large community and more player-to-player cooperation and competition.
So even if we don't get a really big server, I think we should have a official server

 

How? You can't merge different servers so the "big" server uses CPU and memory from those small servers. And to be able to support so many players, you would need some beastly hardware. And that costs lots of money to buy and support. 

I didn't mean merge as in merge the system, I meant merge the community and use the maps of the other servers(like, use mcedit's copy/paste or something) combined into one big map so people don't lose their build and work

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What we need, is to kick out of beta and make the mod popular. One day we will end like Tekkit. We just need to cooperate, report bugs, suggest stuff, so that both issues are fixed and features added. That way beta will soon be history, and more people will be attracted to the mod.

----

TFC like Dwarf Fortress is never going to be "popular". It's a niche game made for maso-gamer like us !

 

We need to do something with what we have right now.

 

c) Food is a joke after the first while.... 

-----

100% agree. In a survival game, food is the first system that should be "done". If the player don't have to worry about food where the "survival" ?

 

p.s totally off topic i know.....

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I think shelter should be the first thing to find when you start a new world. How are you able to find food and water if you can't survive the elements? I think water should be second, since humans can live on it far longer than food, given enough inactivity, and our bodies are mostly compromise of that compound, and food last when you have a shelter and plenty of shelter.

 

Now, back to the topic at hand.

 

PaoloEmilio,

 

Sadly, while trying to make TFC popular sounds great, this mod is not for everyone. TerraFirmaCraft makes the aspects of survival much more difficult than what most players of vanilla Minecraft are comfortable with. vMC is for everyone, because it is simple and it is easy.

 

On the other hand, TerraFirmaCraft forces you to find shelter from the harsh elements, find water to keep yourself hydrated and cool, find food to keep your body well-fed with nutrients, find certain rocks, like flint, to make tool and weapon heads out of for cutting wood and shoveling dirt... I think you understand the idea, here. The mod is like Dwarf Fortress, in a sense that is very difficult and has a steep learning curve. Personally, I think that could be a similar case in TFC, where surviving and searching resources is difficult and, while easy to learn, hard to master.

 

On a side note, though I have never played on FoxTopia server, it's not bad to play alone. I don't see how it is bad to the community, and it isn't inherently evil. But, neither is cooperation and teamwork. It is just that some people like to be loners (like me, :D), and it would be respectable to respect their opinions on surviving alone.

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PaoloEmilio,

 

Sadly, while trying to make TFC popular sounds great, this mod is not for everyone. TerraFirmaCraft makes the aspects of survival much more difficult than what most players of vanilla Minecraft are comfortable with. vMC is for everyone, because it is simple and it is easy.

 

On the other hand, TerraFirmaCraft forces you to find shelter from the harsh elements, find water to keep yourself hydrated and cool, find food to keep your body well-fed with nutrients, find certain rocks, like flint, to make tool and weapon heads out of for cutting wood and shoveling dirt... I think you understand the idea, here. The mod is like Dwarf Fortress, in a sense that is very difficult and has a steep learning curve. Personally, I think that could be a similar case in TFC, where surviving and searching resources is difficult and, while easy to learn, hard to master.

 

On a side note, though I have never played on FoxTopia server, it's not bad to play alone. I don't see how it is bad to the community, and it isn't inherently evil. But, neither is cooperation and teamwork. It is just that some people like to be loners (like me, :D), and it would be respectable to respect their opinions on surviving alone.

 

Indeed agree with that TFC is not for everyone part. (Althrough I wasn't for TFC but mastered it easily) But if you want to survive alone it's smarter to play on singleplayer, as you take out resources you won't share with anyone. And you used them, meaning nobody else can have them. Singleplayer is there for some reason eh? If you survive alone, don't use up resources that people like me, that intend to arise factions, that truly demand lots of ore, for example, and you take up virgin land, meaning you complicate the gameplay for other peoples. So yes, I think it's evil to go on a server and survive alone. I really miss AssHat due to the simple fact that team work was forced, (heck 32 gunpowder for a town). There is an equal quality in singleplayer if you survive alone. Don't waste resources that  more than one person can have. That's the reason that surviving alone on servers is yes, a huge manifestation of evil... Resuming, I say you can survive alone, I think it's bad to survive alone on servers.

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Indeed agree with that TFC is not for everyone part. (Althrough I wasn't for TFC but mastered it easily) But if you want to survive alone it's smarter to play on singleplayer, as you take out resources you won't share with anyone. And you used them, meaning nobody else can have them. Singleplayer is there for some reason eh? If you survive alone, don't use up resources that people like me, that intend to arise factions, that truly demand lots of ore, for example, and you take up virgin land, meaning you complicate the gameplay for other peoples. So yes, I think it's evil to go on a server and survive alone. I really miss AssHat due to the simple fact that team work was forced, (heck 32 gunpowder for a town). There is an equal quality in singleplayer if you survive alone. Don't waste resources that  more than one person can have. That's the reason that surviving alone on servers is yes, a huge manifestation of evil... Resuming, I say you can survive alone, I think it's bad to survive alone on servers.

 

I like surviving alone, but I play on servers because

1. I can trade for stuff, share ideas, etc. Just because I live alone, doesn't mean I play alone too.

2.Sometimes, I don't wan't to do heavy work(gather lots of wood, flatten land), so I pay others to do it.

3.I only use what I need, the rest, I trade or give to people who need it.

4.I play alone because I can rarely find a town I like, but if someone asks to live with me, I would gladly accept. I just like towns run my way, and the best way to find a town like that is to make one myself. Not my fault if noone wants to join

5.I live very far away from civilization. even if I happened to drain the area's resources, It won't matter to towns 2~3 hours travel away, and I don't use that much stuff anyways.

 

So I think living alone on servers is fine, as long as you help out the occasional player that needs help and don't delebritly hoard resources

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I like surviving alone, but I play on servers because

1. I can trade for stuff, share ideas, etc. Just because I live alone, doesn't mean I play alone too.

2.Sometimes, I don't wan't to do heavy work(gather lots of wood, flatten land), so I pay others to do it.

3.I only use what I need, the rest, I trade or give to people who need it.

4.I play alone because I can rarely find a town I like, but if someone asks to live with me, I would gladly accept. I just like towns run my way, and the best way to find a town like that is to make one myself. Not my fault if noone wants to join

5.I live very far away from civilization. even if I happened to drain the area's resources, It won't matter to towns 2~3 hours travel away, and I don't use that much stuff anyways.

 

So I think living alone on servers is fine, as long as you help out the occasional player that needs help and don't delebritly hoard resources

 

I mean that isn't really surviving alone. If you trade from other players they interferred on your survival. So it isn't technically surviving alone/playing alone. But hey, we are getting off the main topic. Keep it on the single giant server.

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I agree for the most part with what aeroc wrote earlier.Some technical insights in running a Terrafirmacraft server:TFC is surprisingly stable. I believe the TerraCrocoCraft server has not even once crashed due to the sequoia bug and the total number of crashes can be counted on my left hand (or right one, for that matter). Most problems I experience are due to vanilla minecraft bugs (zombie pathfinding lag bug and the chunks not unloading bug).Running TFC is server resource intensive. I believe this is largely inherent to forge, but things like snow and ice appearing and melting in tfc contribute significantly to the server load. Chunk generation is deadly slow, which is why I pregenerated my map. With 4Gb RAM and 3.0Ghz Xeon my server can support 12 people (under normal circumstances) without issues. Above that it is mainly the CPU that has trouble keeping up. I suppose the game would remain playable up to 20 players or so, but that is it. Even with the best CPU available the limit in the number of players would increase with only a handful (and would be unaffordable).I hope that the server code performance improvements in minecraft 1.6, 1.7 and in some time 1.8 will translate to Terrafirmacraft, and perhaps that Terrafirmacraft itself can be optimized further by the devs.The player cap also limits the maximum active playerbase to somewhere between 30 and 50, which is rather small for a stable community. In the non-peak hours the number of players is rather low. This can discourage players, because no-one really likes to join a server with 0 players online.At the moment big servers are just not an option and I suppose they will not be any time soon. Plus, you can never really combine all playstyles (PvE, PvP, survival building) on a single server.Then some gameplay related insights:TFC has large multiplayer potential because of the long and intensive progression arc, but it doesn't promote teaming up. On TerraCrocoCrack I see many people living semi-independent. They trade, keep in touch and do things together, but almost everyone still has a personal house, charcoal pit, anvil and such. I would say that at the moment TFC multiplayer is most suited for a group of friends playing together.

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Personally i think it could work well if correctly executed.

 

I think a TFC server could be used as a way of getting people using TFC. IF the server is run correctly, and has specific things that no other servers have ( eg a team based survival scenario with holds) people will come.

 

Things that do need to be worked out though is what type of "scenario" will it be. Is it going to be team based, indervidual, as a whole etc. What are the goals - to survive, conquar, eliminate, build contests etc.

 

What mods will be used- this needs to be determinded with usefulness in mind, and the potential it has to add to the expierience.

 

Who is going to pay for this server? I think having it "official" is the way to go, but if so, who is going to host the server (some one personally, hire out one etc) and if so, what compensation is going to be made to compensate for the costs.

 

People- Will it be a freeroam, whitelisted etc. Personally, i think whitelisted is the way to go, and having expierienced people. We have to take in mind peoples time zones also, as that will help to spread the amount of players on at one time. If it's going to be a team based thing, having each team being able to communicate in one language would be a great thing 

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I host my own server and my community is around 40-70 people active, However many of these people have played on my servers for years.

 

The main problem of consolidating the servers into one is the that many people like different mods. (my server tends to have large numbers of tech mods and extra mobs and what not)

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The main problem I see is that the server application is designed to be ran on ONE machine, not a dozen. You'd need a server bank for that. For that number of servers, I'd say you'd need at least half that number in computers to handle it. It's too much trouble. There'd need to be serious changes to the way that the game runs internally. It's just not feasible in any sense. 

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