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jake_the_odd

Implementing Colored Glass, Stained Glass, and Glassblowing!

Colored Glass, Stained Glass, and Glassblowing!   58 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this be implemented?

    • YES! Definitely!
      40
    • Yes, but it could be done in a different way, like for instance...
      14
    • Meh...
      3
    • Nah, not worth the coding...
      1
    • AW HELL NO!
      0

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

67 posts in this topic

:/ yeah Dunk made a comment on my tudor-style white building block thread that was brought up in the 3rd or 4th post. I guess he's reading the ops and then maybe skimming after that.

 

In other news I enjoy your choice of words.

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:/ yeah Dunk made a comment on my tudor-style white building block thread that was brought up in the 3rd or 4th post. I guess he's reading the ops and then maybe skimming after that.

 

In other news I enjoy your choice of words.

 

A good writer maintains variety in his verbosity

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I'm debating the use of dyes to stain glass

 

 

 

On a related note, after looking over the wikipedia article on stained glass, i think we actually have a reasonable-enough mineral assortment to support stained glass:

 

"

Green glass While very pale green is the typical colour of transparent glass, deeper greens can be achieved by the addition of Iron(II) oxide which results in a bluish-green glass." "Iron(II) oxide, also known by its former name ferrous oxide or informally as iron monoxide ... Its mineral form is known as wüstite."

"FeO.Fe2O3 + C --> 3FeO + CO

magnetite + graphite/diamond --> wüstite + carbon monoxide" 

"

Blue glass ... The addition of copper oxide at 2-3% produces a turquoise colour." "Copper(I) oxide may be produced by several methods.[2] Most straightforwardly, it arises via the oxidation of copper metal:

4 Cu + O2 → 2 Cu2O"

"

Red glass ... Pure metallic copper produces a very dark red, opaque glass."

"

Yellow glass ... The addition of sulphur, together with carbon and iron salts, is used to form iron polysulphides and produce amber glass ranging from yellowish to almost black." 

"

Purple glass ... Nickel, depending on the concentration, produces blue, or violet, or even black glass"

"

White glass Tin oxide with antimony and arsenic oxides produce an opaque white glass," this one took a while to track down a way to obtain all the necessary components. Tin oxide isn't too hard, but antimony trioxide was a pain, as the only source of antimony in the mod is tetrahedrite, and i don't think we even have arsenic. Here goes: 

 

Sb2O3: "Step 1) Crude stibnite is oxidised to crude antimony trioxide using furnaces operating at approximately 850 to 1,000 °C. The reaction is the following: 2 Sb2S3 + 9 O2 → 2 Sb2O3 + 6 SO2"

 

Sb2S3: " Разрушается разбавленными кислотами: Posted Image

 [Destroyed with dilute acids: Posted Image ]" - from http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%82_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F

 

Na3SbS3: "Cu12Sb4S13(s)[tetrahedrite] + 2Na2S (aq) → 5Cu2S(s) + 2CuS(s) + 4NaSbS2 (aq) (1)  NaSbS2 (aq) + Na2S (aq) → Na3SbS3 (aq)" - from https://pure.ltu.se/portal/files/4705553/Leaching_mechanism_of_tetrahedrite_in_Alkaline_Sulfide_Solution.pdf

 

HCl(aq): "During the Industrial Revolution, demand for alkaline substances such as soda ash increased, and Nicolas Leblanc developed a new industrial-scale process for producing the soda ash. In the Leblanc process, salt was converted to soda ash, using sulfuric acid, limestone, and coal, giving hydrogen chloride as by-product. Initially, this gas was vented to air, but the Alkali Act of 1863 prohibited such release, so then soda ash producers absorbed the HCl waste gas in water, producing hydrochloric acid on an industrial scale."

 

Na2S: "Industrially Na2S is produced by reduction of Na2SO4 with carbon, in the form of coal:[3] Na2SO4 + 4 C → Na2S + 4 CO"

 

Na2SO4: "Mannheim: 2 NaCl + H2SO4 → 2 HCl + Na2SO4" "In the seventeenth century, the German-Dutch chemist Johann Glauber prepared sulfuric acid by burning sulfur together with saltpeter (potassium nitrateKNO3), in the presence of steam."

 

 

Conclusion: if this were to be implemented, Sulfuric acid would be made by heating sulfur and saltpeter. Hydrochloric acid would be made as a byproduct of making soda ash via (salt + sulfuric acid) + flux + coal. Sodium Sulfide (the chemical that gives rotten eggs their smell btw) is made by mixing coal and sulfuric acid. Na3SbS3 is made by mixing tetrahedrite and Sodium Sulfide. Note: the byproduct of this reaction Cu2S is actually Chalcocite, a very good copper ore, so that might be something to look into. Mixing Hydrochloric acid and Na3SbS3 creates Antimony(III) sulfide, hydrogen sulfide (in water, hydrosulfuric acid) and table salt. Antimony(III) sulfide can be cooked into Antimony trioxide, which is our desired end product. As the type of tin oxide isn't specified (between SnO2 and SnO) I'm going to assume SnO2, as that is purely cassiterite, which is much easier. Thus, white glass is made by mixing the above obtained antimony oxide and cassiterite.

 

Right, so that took a number of hours to come up with. There's much less data on the more obscure elements than I'd like, and I only found what i was looking for through ru.wikipedia.org

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:/ yeah Dunk made a comment on my tudor-style white building block thread that was brought up in the 3rd or 4th post. I guess he's reading the ops and then maybe skimming after that.

 

In other news I enjoy your choice of words.

I commented on your post because if the content or the topic of your suggestion changes, you should update your original post to match those changes. The title and original post suggested that you were looking for a use for wool. That's misleading if the discussion has moved away from the topic.

 

 

...Vanilla? Dude have you SEEN this thread? lol

It's all about new GUIs and joining shattered glass chips with molten lead. Where is the vanilla in this? This is like some fuckin... acai berry puree with cloudberry extract made into a compote to top ostrich meat stuff right here. This shit is exotic

Hang on here. I said stained glass had been examined before, and rejected due to an inability to get the chemicals involved. You countered by saying as an aesthetic option, it should be in anyway. With that in mind, you could only be suggesting an implementation that didn't involve using the correct chemicals, which I said is bad, as it's the sort of thing you'd expect from vanilla. What's been discussed earlier in this thread is irrelevant, as I was responding to YOU.

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Dear Lord, I didn't expect a flame war to arise from my suggestion, especially one involving dunkleosteus...

 

 

Because dammit, I'm going to teach you how to make coloured glass! One of my pet peeves with minecraft was that things were crafted or existed based on the conceptual notion of a thing, rather than what it is itself, for example crafting tools was drawing the tool in a 3x3 grid, or with items that represent something, such as dyes just representing a colour like blue, and then anything blue that you want just needs that dye. TFC already does away with that, we make you work metal on an anvil into the shape that you want, so i see no reason to fall back on a vanilla mechanic just because it's easy.

The reason I suggested using dyes is two-fold: one being that it would reuse a now tossed out vanilla item and two being that with the revival of dyes, players could now dye their carpets and what I am going to suggest later: clothes and outfits. I am with you in he creation of tools and such and have come up with a remedy for your Peeve against using vanilla dyes.

 

As you pointed out with your wiki-searches for stained glass components, there are recipes that call for metals and minerals that are in TFC, and so I suggest that we create near-recipes that involve the ingredients that we have to make the dyes to color the glass, and then when you make the dyes, they'd have a weight like food and you'd add in a certain amount of dye to color the glass and that way everyone's happy.

 

Also, I am disappointed that y'all got butt-hurt about a little suggestion, if y'all disagree with it then that doesn't mean engage in a war with those who do like or agree with the subject: just go on your merry way instead.

 

And that was a life lesson from jake_the_odd to you all. Oh yeah, I'll be changing the OP so that another butt-hurt-festival like this doesn't happen again

 

 

Have a pleasant day! =]

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Dear Lord, I didn't expect a flame war to arise from my suggestion, especially one involving dunkleosteus...

 

 

The reason I suggested using dyes is two-fold: one being that it would reuse a now tossed out vanilla item and two being that with the revival of dyes, players could now dye their carpets and what I am going to suggest later: clothes and outfits. I am with you in he creation of tools and such and have come up with a remedy for your Peeve against using vanilla dyes.

 

As you pointed out with your wiki-searches for stained glass components, there are recipes that call for metals and minerals that are in TFC, and so I suggest that we create near-recipes that involve the ingredients that we have to make the dyes to color the glass, and then when you make the dyes, they'd have a weight like food and you'd add in a certain amount of dye to color the glass and that way everyone's happy.

 

Also, I am disappointed that y'all got butt-hurt about a little suggestion, if y'all disagree with it then that doesn't mean engage in a war with those who do like or agree with the subject: just go on your merry way instead.

 

And that was a life lesson from jake_the_odd to you all. Oh yeah, I'll be changing the OP so that another butt-hurt-festival like this doesn't happen again

 

 

Have a pleasant day! =]

Dyes will be used to dye cloths, but not glass. It's been stamped down from vanilla because it felt excessive. I didn't intend to sound flame war-y, just to sort of joke that I like to take things to extremes sometimes.

 

You seem to be quite convinced that we're all butt-hurt... I'm not sure if you noticed the little title below my name, but I'm one of the developers for TFC, and between TFC's two devs, the one who frequents the forums more often. In a way, I'm the one you're making suggestions to :P

 

If I see a suggestion with promise but that I think is heading in the wrong direction, I'll try to correct it to help the discussion stay relevant and become a feature that might get implemented into the game.

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Say, for dyeing glass, we have 'dye powders'(personally think they should be called pigments, but whatever) ,made by grinding various minerals, right?.

Can't we just expand the number of these pigments and use them for all out dye-ing needs?

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-stuff-

 

...Shit, Kit...

 

Really though, I agree on some aspects... But still... glass.You said it yourself Dunk-man, we have all the minerals necessary - time to strap in and get a-codin'

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Say, for dyeing glass, we have 'dye powders'(personally think they should be called pigments, but whatever) ,made by grinding various minerals, right?.

Can't we just expand the number of these pigments and use them for all out dye-ing needs?

 

This is essentially (as I understand it) the same as the vanilla dye mechanism that Dunk was trying to avoid isn't it?

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This is essentially (as I understand it) the same as the vanilla dye mechanism that Dunk was trying to avoid isn't it?

Red glass is made from pure copper, so make grinding a copper ingot make red dye, and use it for all red-dye uses.

Stuff like that.

If the vanilla blue dye makes no sense for glass, get something that makes blue glass and use that.

The color change can't be that huge, can it?

 

But if even that is not 'believable' enough, we can just have people toss in nickel ingot/ore/whatever in white glass and magnetite + graphite/diamond when making green glass and let the people scratch their heads on why that works

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But just because glass is made from pure copper doesn't also mean you can make red clothes from pure copper. If you just have an all-purpose red dye, that is literally the same thing as the current vanilla/TFC dye mechanic, with one item being a red dye. The only difference between what you're saying and what I think we're trying to avoid is that instead of grinding up hematite to make rose red dye, you make it from copper. Your suggestion is just the same thing with different items. We have to use different dye types for clothes or carpet and glass, because the colour in glass is from minerals or other compounds that are "part" of the glass, as opposed to, say, a leather jacket that was dyed red which is only red because there is a coating of some red compound on it. If you cut the jacket in half, it won't still be red on the inside. 

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This is correct. So far, we've been going with mineral pigments for dyes in TFC. Truth be told, mineral pigments are more often used for paints than for cloth dyes, but it's not unreasonable to use minerals. The mineral approach also makes colours more interesting, I believe, that simply picking flowers.

 

Currently, red dye is made from hematite powder.

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This is correct. So far, we've been going with mineral pigments for dyes in TFC. Truth be told, mineral pigments are more often used for paints than for cloth dyes, but it's not unreasonable to use minerals. The mineral approach also makes colours more interesting, I believe, that simply picking flowers.

 

Currently, red dye is made from hematite powder.

Again dunk I like the idea of using minerals for dyes. I think it really contributes for the believably of the system. But most players only care about having the colored glass block to use in their buildings. So if it would be so much harder to code the mineral dyes that we would not have the stained glass please use the existing dyes. 

  scratch all that. to think about, nobody needs stained glass. It should be a symbol of wealth and not possible to obtain before steel  I have no idea how those mineral were crushed historically did they just use a stone grinder?

should a quern be able to crush metals like gold and copper or do we need a different thing? Maybe a grinder made of iron or steel?

It would be a easy way to prevent starting players to have access to stained glass.

I know we had stained glass by meddle age but only very rich people could afford it.

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New to the forum but I've been playing TFC for a few months now. I love what y'all are talking about in here. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

 

Glass blowing would be awesome, but I'd like to see glass casting and glass floating too.

 

With glass blowing I think there should be more than one type of vessel. Obviously the vanilla glass bottle would be blown instead of crafted from blocks, but there could also be a glass jug like the ceramic one, and a jar. They could each have different recipes in the glass blowing GUI similar to the anvil recipes. I like the way that Tsuarok described it in his post. The main reason I like the idea of a glass jar is to have a method for canning food to preserve it. I've seen canning in other suggestion posts about food preservation, but they were talking about metal cans. When I think of home canning on a farm, I think of glass mason jars. Something along the lines of adding brine water and sealing the jar like a barrel, maybe even boiling it somehow.

 

Glass blacks should be cast in some kind of mold. That seems pretty obvious to me. I'm not sure what else would be useful to cast from glass, but this is pretty creative group of people so I'm sure there is something I just haven't thought of yet.

 

For glass panes I think it would be more interesting to float the glass on a bath of molten tin instead of crafting panes from blocks. I don't think it makes any sense to be able to craft class panes from blocks. I was thinking of a shallow pan made from fire clay (or maybe regular clay for a low durability version). Pour some molten tin into the pan and then pour some molten glass over it. The glass hardens before the tin so you can get more than one glass pane per tin bath as long as you keep extra molten glass at the ready. 

 

There could also be more than one type of glass with different properties like the different tiers of metal. IRL there are many types of glass depending on what additives are put into the crucible (like Tsuarok mentioned). Different additives change the melting point and transition temperature (working temperature) of the glass. Silica glass is made from just sand and has really high melting and working temperatures. Soda-Lime glass is mixed with soda and lime (flux would work for TFC) and has a lower melting temperature. Lead glass is mixed with lead and has lower melting and working temperatures. There could also be a mechanism for making annealed and tempered controlling the cooling process. I'm not sure if there would be any real in-game benefit except for maybe durability on vessels. I guess the zombies could smash out lower durability glass windows to keep things interesting.

 

Maybe there could even be a mechanism for having broken panes or blocks drop glass shards so you could recover some percentage of it by melting it back down. Not quite a cheaty as silk touch in vanilla, but not as wasteful as just losing them completely.

 

I think Dunk is on point with the dyes from various metal oxides. 

 

Glass could potentially be almost as complex as the early tier metals, and it really should be to be consistent with TFC.

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New to the forum but I've been playing TFC for a few months now. I love what y'all are talking about in here. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

 

Glass blowing would be awesome, but I'd like to see glass casting and glass floating too.

 

With glass blowing I think there should be more than one type of vessel. Obviously the vanilla glass bottle would be blown instead of crafted from blocks, but there could also be a glass jug like the ceramic one, and a jar. They could each have different recipes in the glass blowing GUI similar to the anvil recipes. I like the way that Tsuarok described it in his post. The main reason I like the idea of a glass jar is to have a method for canning food to preserve it. I've seen canning in other suggestion posts about food preservation, but they were talking about metal cans. When I think of home canning on a farm, I think of glass mason jars. Something along the lines of adding brine water and sealing the jar like a barrel, maybe even boiling it somehow.

 

Glass blacks should be cast in some kind of mold. That seems pretty obvious to me. I'm not sure what else would be useful to cast from glass, but this is pretty creative group of people so I'm sure there is something I just haven't thought of yet.

 

For glass panes I think it would be more interesting to float the glass on a bath of molten tin instead of crafting panes from blocks. I don't think it makes any sense to be able to craft class panes from blocks. I was thinking of a shallow pan made from fire clay (or maybe regular clay for a low durability version). Pour some molten tin into the pan and then pour some molten glass over it. The glass hardens before the tin so you can get more than one glass pane per tin bath as long as you keep extra molten glass at the ready. 

 

There could also be more than one type of glass with different properties like the different tiers of metal. IRL there are many types of glass depending on what additives are put into the crucible (like Tsuarok mentioned). Different additives change the melting point and transition temperature (working temperature) of the glass. Silica glass is made from just sand and has really high melting and working temperatures. Soda-Lime glass is mixed with soda and lime (flux would work for TFC) and has a lower melting temperature. Lead glass is mixed with lead and has lower melting and working temperatures. There could also be a mechanism for making annealed and tempered controlling the cooling process. I'm not sure if there would be any real in-game benefit except for maybe durability on vessels. I guess the zombies could smash out lower durability glass windows to keep things interesting.

 

Maybe there could even be a mechanism for having broken panes or blocks drop glass shards so you could recover some percentage of it by melting it back down. Not quite a cheaty as silk touch in vanilla, but not as wasteful as just losing them completely.

 

I think Dunk is on point with the dyes from various metal oxides. 

 

Glass could potentially be almost as complex as the early tier metals, and it really should be to be consistent with TFC.

What's this? A first post that is coherent, well spaced, punctuated and thought-out? :o

 

Good points on all of those, and welcome to the forums.

 

I would certainly like to have glass re-implemented for TFC, but I've yet to come up with a method for glass blowing that i think would represent the process well enough.

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I guess I could have been less coherent if that'd make everybody more comfortable.

glass is teh sux!! FIX IT!!

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Adding glass properly would require a few changes: glass would be made from silica and soda ash. Molten glass is interesting, because unlike other solids which have a temperature at which they melt (although many metals get softer as they approach this temperature), glass gets steadily less viscous as it heats up. As a gradient, it's interesting and I wonder how we'd handle that.

 

For starters, if we do turn our eyes to glass, I think it would be important to focus on silica sand as the ingredient. Currently, TFC uses the geological definition of sand, which is defined by the size of the grain (< 2 mm is the upper bound iirc), but a lot of them aren't actual silica sands and instead are closer to what many might call a gravel (ie crushed stone)

 

Soda ash is fun though, as it's made of burnt seaweed, which we already have :)

 

The next thing we have to look at is how glass will work. Traditionally, glass wasn't cast flat, which I believe was due to the temperature they could achieve. Instead, glass was laid with a sort of twist in the centre, and then it was broken into smaller pieces. The flattest and straightest of these were interlocked with metal frames to form the classic medieval windows that you'll so often see on buildings from that era or reproductions in movies. I think having glass blocks may be a thing of the past, but I'm not sure if we should let players cast full panes directly or if we should make them create the metal frames to go around them.

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Is silica sand even a thing in TFC? I would have just used any type of sand with flux to keep things simple, but I forget how techinal you guys are with geology. What was I thinking?

Would you have to make silica sand more abundant to make it viable?

I've been doing some research on glass blowing and came up with a few ideas that might work for implementing it. I'll post it later once I get it all put together.

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Well, the primary incredient in silica sand is quartz, SiO2. The rocks which have the most quartz are felsic igneous rocks - in TFC, the available felsic igneous rocks are Granite and Rhyolite.
Therefore, I suggest that we not change ANYTHING about sand, and simply make it so that whatever method we use to make it checks the sand's item metadata to ensure that it's rhyolite or granite sand.

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Well, the primary incredient in silica sand is quartz, SiO2. The rocks which have the most quartz are felsic igneous rocks - in TFC, the available felsic igneous rocks are Granite and Rhyolite.

Therefore, I suggest that we not change ANYTHING about sand, and simply make it so that whatever method we use to make it checks the sand's item metadata to ensure that it's rhyolite or granite sand.

 

 

this may be a stupid question, but quartzite doesn't have much quartz in it? O_o

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From what I read in wikipedia, quartzite should work very well. It seems to be the a metamorphic rock made of a sedimentary rock made out of silica sand.

But then I know very little about geology and whatnot and I might be missing something

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I love the idea of having colored glass in the mod And really appreciate the effort put into finding what kind of mineral should go into the composition to get each color.

That said I cannot understand why do I get chastised when asking for the stone tools to need plant fibers to tie then to the stick. Suddenly I am asking for too much realism.  

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this may be a stupid question, but quartzite doesn't have much quartz in it? O_o

 

...Quartzite is a TFC rock? I... I've never actually seen that...

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It is. I've seen it a few times, and it's also on the TFC wiki

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How very odd. Quartzite was never actually mentioned in my glassmaking research...

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