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AllenWL

Mechanical Power. Doing things Better, Faster

90 posts in this topic

I think having mechanical power could help with some tedious, time-consuming things in TFC.
Refining grain, grinding, sluices, making planks, and so on sometimes gets a bit annoying for me.
 
Then I read a post by dunk, and the bit that caught my eye was
-Strength affects things like attack damage, and in horses, what they can accomplish mechanically.-
This got me thinking about mechanical power.
 
Now mechanical power should be high on the tech list, but not as high like bronze or wrought iron-ish I guess
And I think It should be able to help you  with do some things faster/better
 
Generated by:

hand crank:
would move small machines that don't need much power and would be a placeholder of sorts until you can get a better source of power.
This power would be fed directly to machines, and would not be able to transfer through gears and axles due to it's low energy
Can only power some mechanisms.
 
Windmills:
would provide continuous power that could travel via axles and such.
Can power everything a hand crank can, and more
 
Waterwheels:
Provides continuous power. the amount of power output depends on
1.The size of the waterbody it's in
2. whether the water is still or flowing
3. How close to the wheel the water is
Can power everything a windmill can, and more if conditions are right
 
Horses/horsewheel:
would provide the largest amounts of power and be able to power all mechanical things
but the horses would need to be fed and rested, so cannot provide continuous power.
Can power everything a fully powered waterwheel can, and more
 
 
Moving/storing power
Power can be moved by axles/shafts, and gears. axles would move power in a straight line, and does not need supports. Gears will be attached to axles/shafts or a solid block, and will turn (unpowered)axles attached to it, or a gear interlocking with it. Energy is lost every time it goes through a gear/axle.
 
Power can be stored in a 'spring box'. It has a input side and a output side, and it can store large amounts of energy. however, it slowly looses energy even if not in use.
It can give out power equivalent to a fully powered waterwheel if it has enough energy

 

Multi-block energy-storing tower thing(for the lack of better name)

Made with weight block, modified pulley,

Make a modified pulley(bad name, I know, can't think of anything though) using a pulley, gear, pulley, and metal sheets. two blocks long, one block tall(like a bed, but not a half block). A modified pulley has a input at top, an output at one end, and a rope-place on the bottom(sorry if it's confusing). It needs ropes in it's inventory, and 4 support beams(horizontal) connected to it's sides

 

A weight block is made with a rope anchor and 7 metal sheets. It has a inventory of 4 slots. It takes stone blocks as weight.

 

To make, place a modified pulley in the air, and connect 4 horizontal support beams to it's sides. Then, add ropes to the inventory. a rope block will dangle out. attach a weight block to the rope and add weights into the block. wait till all the ropes fall out. then give power to the input side. the ropes will raise until all ropes are back in the modified pulley. Attach a machine to the output. if the Mpulley(modified pulley, too annoying to write modified so much) stops getting powered, the ropes and weight block will start going down, and the Mpulley will generate energy from its output side. The more weight you add to the weight block, the more power the Mpulley gives when unpowered, but the faster the ropes pull out, and the faster it stops giving energy. If there are more ropes, the longer the Mpulley gives energy.

 

Pic:

Posted Image
 So, the stone is the Mpulley, the rope is the rope, the cobble is the weight block, the oak planks are the output, and the hickory planks the input.

The supports are supports

 

Mechanisms powered by mechanical power.
 
Grain Mill.
A huge quern(5x5x4, maybe?) that can grind up to 9 stacks of the same items at the same time, and can grind flux
(because, lets face it, do you really wan't to grind your flour with bones and rocks?)

Needs at least fully powered waterwheel to work
 
Sawmill
A Mechanized saw that can cut large amounts of logs into planks in a short time
Needs at lest a windmill to work
 
Waterpump
A pump for moving water.
If powered and touched by water/powered pump that has water at one side, it gives water from it's outputside
Transfers power to other pumps, put with more powerloss than an axle
Up to 3 blocks can be powered by a hand crank.
 
Power/mechanized hammer
Can break minerals and rocks for more flux/redstone/dyes then a mill
Can craft metal things like gears, metal sheets, and tool heads
Needs a 'stamp' to make tool heads and gears, 'stamps' wear out on useage
Tool heads come out damaged
Needs large amounts of power to put into position
Can be powered by hand crank as it does not need continuous power.
 
Mechanized gate
A large gate that opens and closes using mechanical power
It can operate on a hand crank
 
Pulley
When powered it lowers or raises ropes in it's inventory
Can operate on a hand crank
 
Mechanical bellows
A bellows that runs on mechanical energy.
It has a larger range and raises the temperature hotter than a normal furnace.
Can operate on a hand crank
 
Misc
Foundry
A giant 3x3x2 forge. Needs a frame of ingenious rocks with crucibles at the bottom
Can use most forms of fuel, but needs a mechanical bellow to work.
requires a chimney like a normal forge as well.
Can smelt much, much more ores, and can make alloys as well.
Can also melt tools/toolheads/armor/etc to get back some metal
has no auxiliary slots, and 6 input slots, 6 output slots, and 8 fuel slots, and 6 status boxes
When ores/tools/toolheads/ingots/armor/etc melt, it goes into the crucibles. You can get it out from accessioning the separate crucibles on the bottom, or by putting molds in the output slots. Cannot cook food.
 
Flax
A crop that can be crafted into fiber using a knife or spindle
 
plant fiber
Made from flax, can be used as string, or crafted into rope
 
Rope
Made with plant fiber.
Can be attached to an rope anchor, or used in pulleys
 
Rope anchor
Can attach a rope to it to climb.
If attached to a platform, with a rope leading to a pulley, it will enable the pulley to pull the platform up or down.
 
Platform
Made with planks and sticks, can be pulled up or down by a anchor attached to a pulley
 
Crafting

Gear


Made with an ingot and an gear plan in an anvil.

Axle/shaft
Made with planks and a gear.

Windmill sail
Made with wool cloth and planks.

Windmill
Made from windmill sails, and a axle

Waterwheel blade
made with support beams(couldn't think of anything better) and planks

Waterwheel
made from waterwheel blades, and a axle

spring
made with an iron/steel(can't decide what to choose) ingot and a spring plan

spring box
made with plank, axles, and a spring

Grain mill base
made with 9 smoothstone blocks

Grain mill grindstone
Made with 8 rawstone blocks and a gear

Screw blades
Made with ingot and screw blade plan

Screw
Made with screw blades, and axles

Water pump
Made with screw and metal sheets, and some gears

Sawmill
Made with axle, planks, an iron saw head

Mechanical Bellow
made with bellows, gear, axle, and planks

 
 
---------
Notes:
I haven't been able to think up everything like all crafting recipes or how to measure energy and such
 
 KuroNeko87 gets credits for
Pulley/platform and handcrank ideas
 
 Kazahied gets credits for
power hammer, foundry, gear, and multi-block energy storing tower thing ideas

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Sounds like a cool idea, but i believe this has already been suggested.

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One system that would work well with the TFC setting is an early handcrank/pulley system.

 

This technology was widely available in the middle ages. One implementation could be to use it in an elevator system for deep mineshafts. Or even to power up a mill to grind grains, metals, etc.

 

There are several ways to power it: 1-Kinetic energy (windsails, waterwheels) another could be tying up animals (horse or bull) to a system and make them walk around.

Examples:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

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It's A good concept but I believe this has already been suggested

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Ah, I didn't see it in the suggestions directory, that's why i posted it. :/

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Yea, mechanical systems are the most common suggestion

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Ah, I didn't see it in the suggestions directory, that's why i posted it. :/

 

The directory isn't inclusive, hence the first paragraph stating:

 

 This list is not inclusive, so please try to continue to skim over previous threads and use the forum's search function so that you aren't suggesting the same thing over and over again.

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With the upcoming build 78 there is a lot of room for several mechanical devices powered by the most often suggested horses. However most of these suggestions have been guided towards agriculture, while this is good there are many things lacking in these suggestions. The goal of this post is to flesh out ideas for machinery (most of my ideas involve mass production but at a cost)

 

1) a means to store power

 

You should not have to construct a storage unit to have access to power for grind stones and the like, but for those without access to a river or water fall continual power means getting the horses out every time you need something done. An easy way to store power (and TFC plausible) would be a counterweight. By constructing a tower with a counter weight you could store tremendous amounts of potential energy to drive machinery. This was the same driving force of trebuchets, the famous castle killers.

 

Yet another way would be torsion springs, such as those used in the roman ballistae, by using a ratcheting wheel very high amounts of energy could be stored in sinew springs in a ballistae allowing incredible ranges. This form of storage would not be very good for say grinding grain due to high speed but low duration, it could however be used to assist the raising of a heavy counter weight in a tower 

 

 

 

2) the machinery

 

 Grain Mill     Many have suggested the multiblock grinding wheel. A structure that can grind lots of grain seamlessly and without having to right click several querns to make bread. This is an excellent idea but should be made a bit bigger, a simple 3x3x3 is a tad small for such a critical piece of technology. something on the scale of a 5x5x7 would be a bit closer to historical counterparts (mind you that minecraft scale is a bit wacky). Something of this size could process 9 grain at a time and out put flower at the same rate as a quern. However even though it is bigger than 9 querns it wouldn't need to have its stone replaced (however the stone costs more to build--or the stone could last longer)and it wont need to be manually driven.

 

 

Trip Hammer   (aka Power Hammers) A very overlooked tool used as early as 20 AD by the Chinese, a trip hammer uses a heavy mass attached to guide rails to strike an object placed below. Common applications varied from ore refinement, to stamping metals, to crushing grain. Our application could be much simpler than the complex uses in history. We could use to crush stone into flux, and to do basic blacksmithing. In the black smithing the hammer would have to be equipt with a dye to stamp an ingot with. This dye would be limited to basic shapes, such as arrow heads and other cast-able parts (however for balance tools made with a trip hammer would have a damage penalty). then it would need to be either cranked (by hand or a power source) into ready position then fed with an ingot of workable temperature and fired, this process could have a random chance of success, often requiring many strikes to get a finished product. but for arrows you would get more than one arrow head per ingot. The hammer could also perform welding by feeding it the proper materials (flux would not be needed due to the forces involved with the hammer)  For balance a hammer would need a solid block of a metal and the tier of this metal would determine mass/ success rate. The solid block would be crafted from 9 double ingots. The overall hammer would be a 3x3x7 and need considerable force to operate. Dies would wear out at half the rate of hammers in an anvil

 

 

Foundry   (terrible name for the idea but it sorta fits) A foundry would be a massive forge that could run off of most burn-able materials. The added benefits of a foundry over a standard forge would an automatic bellows when powered, capacity to heat many things (3x2 heat source, to heat up to 6 crucibles at once), and the need for only a single chimney. Like many people who like to build inside mountains, underground, or at the bottom of an ocean, having several forges is a hassle, each one needs a chimney, and unless you get crafty and get four to a single chimney, that means a lot of digging for vents. The Foundry can also run on just about any source of fuel, once its coal beds are made. The fact that it has its own bellows that can be powered and run continuously more that warrants its cost. The frame of the foundry would be any stone other than cobble, the bed of coals would be a stack of coal or charcoal one block deep filling the 3x2 space and would require 3 bellows in construction. 

 

 

 

Water-pump  This would provide a way to move water from point a to point b without having to spend colored steel, it would take quite a bit of other materials though. This machine would move water from a source next to an intake valve and move it into the pipes added in b78. This is a simple machine and does not need a whole lot of power. when hooked to pipes a barrel could accept fluid from them and pipes with negative pressure cause by being on the input side of a pump would suck fluids out of barrels. a water pump could be as small as a 3x3x2. weak versions would not even need metal to build and could run only on wooden parts

 

 

3) power sources

 

 

Windmills- windmills would produce a small amount of continuous power but would need open space for wind, 

 

 

 

Horses- horses provide large amounts of power but need to be fed, rested and bred to fill the role of a power source

 

 

 

Waterwheels- expensive to build a water wheel would provide average power continuously but would need large amounts of water to work (either falling water from at least 10 blocks or a require a 10 radius in a line of water (21 blocks in a line) at least 5 wide to provide full power

 

 

 

Cranks- basic cranks these are part of all the machines and are operated by hand, these provide the slowest but cheapest power solution

 

 

4) power transfer

 

Transferring the power from source to consumer is a difficult task, and most mods take the easy-way out and use electricity or pipes. TFC could use basic shafts and gears, nothing too complex just strait shafts and a 90 degree turn.

 

Shafts- basic shafts would have a limit on how much load they could move, wood will have low limits where colored steel would be able to transfer tons of force

 

Gears- every junction of a gear would reduce speed and force by a percentage, this percentage decreasing as the quality of the materials increase with colored steel being near loss-less

 

Couplers- would be used to allow a shaft to interact with a machine

Single- used as a clutch to turn on/off a machines power

double- used to active a machine but allow power to continue to another shaft, useful to build storage units in the shaft

 

 

Some ideas about the power system. Speed is not an issue. the energy is only measured in force. However all the machinery have a minimum force required to move with things like the hammer needing a lot of force and the grinding wheel needing only a little. Excess force speeds the machine to a limit. if a machine does not receive enough force it wont operate at all. Certain machines that use machinery as a bonus (like the foundry will function but need to be manually operated for the machinery to function)-- the foundry will function as a forge with no bellows.

 

 

 

 

--jeez this is a long one--

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There have been a lot of posts like this one. Please search the forums before posting. 

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A lot of posts yes, that usually all say the same thing. My intent is to condense them down into a singular idea. (most of them are all about horses and waterwheels powering mills)

 

 

 

And none of them go in enough detail to flesh out an outline for how the proposed systems should work. They typically say stuff like "we should have mechanical querns, and we can power them with horses" or other such things.

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If the main point of the past topic was still mechanical power, you should have posted this as a reply to that topic, and not as a new one. When I'm not being lazy, I will find the past topic and merge this one into that one.

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If the main point of the past topic was still mechanical power, you should have posted this as a reply to that topic, and not as a new one.

 

Well it was more specifically machinery but w/e

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i tired to combine all the ideas into the first post.

Not I was not able to list all ideas, I don't think, but I got a pretty big chunk down

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Could always measure the mechanical force in horsepower, with a secondary torque. Since we would be using horses to power many things, it would actually be a pretty good scale to go off of.

 

Another method of storing power;

 

using gears to turn rotational force to vertical by raising a weight in a tower, as the gears crank the weight goes higher in the tower. Then when power is released it goes down at a speed determined by the output gear. This would be a great multiblock energy storage as you can make the tower quite tall and the weight quite heavy. 

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Could always measure the mechanical force in horsepower, with a secondary torque. Since we would be using horses to power many things, it would actually be a pretty good scale to go off of.

 

Another method of storing power;

 

using gears to turn rotational force to vertical by raising a weight in a tower, as the gears crank the weight goes higher in the tower. Then when power is released it goes down at a speed determined by the output gear. This would be a great multiblock energy storage as you can make the tower quite tall and the weight quite heavy. 

 

I have a hard time visioning how multiblock structures should be made :P

Note that I only wrote down one multiblock structure, and that's the one you explained pretty well. All I added was moving the crucibles to the bottom and recycling tools

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The multiblock towers would be fairly large, with at least a 5x5 footprint.

 

The tower would need beams made from full logs and a core block that functions as a pulley system allowing the raising of a weight block that is 3x3x3.

The weight block would be filled with any manner of objects and the combined weight of these determines its power capacity. (and the torque needed to lift it)

 

the tower would also need an input and output block, these could function as the gears that affect the ratios of speed and torque. 

 

The tower would be scaleable with even bigger versions of with(say a 5x5x5 weight instead of 3x3x3) and the height could be capped at say 30 blocks, this would allow quite a bit of energy storage.

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The multiblock towers would be fairly large, with at least a 5x5 footprint.

 

The tower would need beams made from full logs and a core block that functions as a pulley system allowing the raising of a weight block that is 3x3x3.

The weight block would be filled with any manner of objects and the combined weight of these determines its power capacity. (and the torque needed to lift it)

 

the tower would also need an input and output block, these could function as the gears that affect the ratios of speed and torque. 

 

The tower would be scaleable with even bigger versions of with(say a 5x5x5 weight instead of 3x3x3) and the height could be capped at say 30 blocks, this would allow quite a bit of energy storage.

 

maybe with a modified pulley? say, a gravity- affected block, that needs supports at 2 sides and the bottom(the top and two other sides would be the input), and a lot of other stuff to work.

All you really need to give is the basic skeleton, and the players(unless lazy) will cover it up most of the time, and it looks better if left to the player(in my opinion. gives it more of a character)

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All it really needs is a way to hold the pully off the ground, gears to and axles to apply and recieve force, and a unobstructed path for the weight.

 

 

- the way i was trying to explain is a construction that is similar to a railcraft metal tank. Although much taller, this way you can isolate the area of the tower and have fewer bugs. once built you wouldnot be able to put anything in the area taken up by the tower but you can "cover" however you want. (it doesnt need to be exposed at all{well the input out put does but w/e})

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All it really needs is a way to hold the pully off the ground, gears to and axles to apply and recieve force, and a unobstructed path for the weight.

 

 

- the way i was trying to explain is a construction that is similar to a railcraft metal tank. Although much taller, this way you can isolate the area of the tower and have fewer bugs. once built you wouldnot be able to put anything in the area taken up by the tower but you can "cover" however you want. (it doesnt need to be exposed at all{well the input out put does but w/e})

I made a rough model, and posted the picture.

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@allenwl- very good. You pretty much duplicated what i was trying to describe.

 

And as for animation issues- have the weight block move a 16th of a block for a percentage of the total available power.

 

The weight would be at the top when at full power, and work its way down as the power is used.

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-another set of machines with historical roots--

 

 

Pneumatic compressor- Compresses air for adjacent machines. It would also allow the flushing of pipes, so as to clear out left over fluids ( a big issue in any mod with pipes (Buildcraft mostly)).

 

Pneumatic tank- a tank that can store compressed air, serves as an energy buffer allowing hand-cranks to power pneumatic objects. made from a hull of black steel sheets with a valve in the middle

 

Pneumatic piston- adjustable piston that can be extended up to 4 blocks and push up to 6 blocks at a time. unlike a minecraft piston it will also pull all six blocks with it. the amount of blocks it pulls can be set in a gui on the main block. crafted with 5 steel sheets in a U shape with a valve in the core and planks across the top. If power is disrupted  the machine will stay put if it has to pull anything, if the piston is pushing up gravity would cause it to close. To make the piston arm it would take pneumatic tubing which is two vertical strips of steel sheets.

 

Pneumatic engine- a simple waterwheel like engine powered by compressed air. expensive but allows the use of pneumatics powered by hand-cranks to run larger machines.

 

Dispenser redo- the dispenser would be pneumatic, utilizing an internal tank, a hand-crank to pump it, and a pneumatic tube for a barrel. power could be adjusted in a gui, but would function similar to a vanilla dispenser (with the advantage of blending in with a TFC blocks). Not really a gun and would do less damage with arrows and javelins than say a bow or throwing them but could be effective non the less.

 

-Use for lead- 

 

Lead pipe- can be used to transport small amounts of liquids or pressurized air

 

Lead slugs- can be loaded into the dispenser to create a powerful knock-back trap, or thrown for an accurate flat trajectory throwing weapon (really weak, more for harassment)

 

Lead weights- specialized blocks to be used in machines for weight uses. made from 9 double ingots of lead-

 

- in a power hammer it increases the durability of tool heads, increases chance to craft, but increases power needed to lift

 

- in a gravity battery (the actual name of the tower thing) it would provide double the bonus of stone

 

- in the grain mill the lead weights can be added to the mill stone allowing more efficient grinding

 

- can be attached to the opposite end of a pulley/elevator to counter balance it, making it easier to move larger platforms

 

 

 

 

- an update to the hand-crank-

 

The hand-crank would cause a temp debuff that drained thirst and food quickly for a few seconds upon use

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Most of these constructions are materially expensive. Mainly for the intent that they be more focused for mid- end game construction.

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I like all these ideas, I have always wanted mechanical power, and I know and see that the devs see these posts, but I have not yet found a conclusive opinion of theirs... So my question is: will mechanical engineering ever possibly make its way into TFC? And even such a definitive answer is not necessary, simply a acknowledgment of the fact that they don't abhor the idea, for example, and that maaaybe in some very far in the future build it will find itself integrated in some way or another, even if it isn't in the same way most people mention it. Devs, please see this and answer, I'd be happy even with a negatory response, so long as It means I stop expecting and waiting for something that won't be implemented ever.

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Well B78 has pipes, so I believe that it is safe to assume they eventually plan to add machines of some sort in the near future.

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