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Guest Elagn

Siege Equipment

32 posts in this topic

In TFC, especialy in PvP servers, to atack somewhere, the best weapons and tools are the sword, bow, and pickaxe. Other, much larger, weapons would be awesome if they were implemented. Siege equipment could be added that would be fairly inacurate, very slow to use, very hard and expensive to make and use, and ultimatly extemely effective in combat or demolition. Castles weren't taken by mining directly through the walls, catapults, balista, and battering rams were used, along with just sieging the place. Cannons could be added to this list as well if they aren't too gun-like.

 

Catapults: A large, multiblock construction that throws large blocks of stone through the air at high velocity to damage/break the target. They would take about a stack of logs, metal fittings, rope, heavy counterweights, and basic mechanics to construct. They would fire raw stone or cobble stone with a large range. Where it struck would cause a "explosion" that could destroy surounding blocks and possibly cause cave-ins in any type of material and kill/hurt mobs. Any mob hit with a catapult ball should be imediatly killed. Cobble stone could break apart in the air to cause numerous smaller hits that are only effective against mobs. It would take a long time to reload and only be accurate to within about 4 blocks in any direction from the aimed center. Mobility of the catapult would be fairly low and would require horses/such to move well. Progetile tragectory would be high and arcing, great to go over the walls and hit the people inside> To destroy/sabotage, it could be as simple as cutting a rope or hacking the thing up with an axe, with more extensive damage taking longer. Some repairs could be made, but some things (like geting hit by an oposing catapult ball) would require complete reconstrution of the catapult.

 

Balista: A large, sideways mounted bow. They would take planks, rope, and a little metal. They would fire large, metal tipped bolts that deal enormous damage to mobs, decent destruction to wooden objects, and little effect to stone. They could be mounted on wheels or stationary platforms inside castles themselves for defensive purposes. If large ships are implimented, balista could be mounted on them for naval combat. These should be more used as weapons against mobs or players (ships) than constructions. It would be hard to reload with some sort of wench to pull the rope back for reloading. Bolts once fired would be generaly recoverable, with higher rates for better metals. Recovery rates should be lower if they hit materials like stone. The bolts should be large and hard to carry many at a time, but the balista itself should have a built-in storage spot and they should be stackable on the ground. Balista bolts would have a relitivly flat but long tragectory, but able to aim up or down, perfect for destroying anything directly infront of the balista (have fun charging down that halway with balsita bolts in your face :) ) . To destroy/sabotage, one could simply cut ropes or hack the frame. Ropes could easily be replaced but more extensive damage may not be fixable.

 

Battering Ram: The simplest of all siege wepons, it is simply a log with some handles on the sides and posibly a metal cap on the battering end. Making only requires 4-5 logs, some sticks/planks for handles, and an optional metal cap made of a double sheet. This would do little damage to mobs/players, though could knock them back, and destroy stone/wood constructions with multiple beatings. This would require several people to operate and they would be vulnerable while doing so. Sabotage could be hacking the handles off or destroying the ram with an axe or lighting it on fire.

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Sounds cool, and if you want a gunpowder siege engine that is in the medieval era you would get a Petard.

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How bout a explosives?

I know we have powder kegs, but running up to a wall, and putting 4 stacks of gunpowder in a barrel takes some time.

How about a iron bomb, made with 4~5 stacks of gunpowder(that'll take a LOT of crafting), and iron double plates, and once placed and lit with flint & steel, causes an explosion

slightly bigger then a barrel full of powder, and sends iron sharpinal everywhere

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Lol, you just suggested about the three types of siege weapons avaliable in Age of Empires 2

 

Well. like your ideas. It could be optional to make a capping to the siege ram as well, to protect from arrows.

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Honestly, despite what some people have said about there never being guns stuff in TFC, i honestly think it makes sense

 

Seeing as you live in a world inhabited by plant-based creatures that explode and drop gunpowder, you'd think that people would find a way to use that power relatively quickly, seeing how abundant it is,

it's not like people would have to invent gunpowder before using it, it's already in the world, used by Creepers.

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Honestly, despite what some people have said about there never being guns stuff in TFC, i honestly think it makes sense

 

Seeing as you live in a world inhabited by plant-based creatures that explode and drop gunpowder, you'd think that people would find a way to use that power relatively quickly, seeing how abundant it is,

it's not like people would have to invent gunpowder before using it, it's already in the world, used by Creepers.

The reason they said no to guns is that its a balance issue. Due to the time period Early 1500s is pussing it, guns that were around at this time would be highly inaccurate and only usefull in volly fire at close range. To have a player use this would be impossible. And the muskets and such from balkons would be way to freaking accurate and almost game breaking. Also considering that guns made armor obsoliete over night that would ruin half of the gameplay of tfc.

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Honestly, despite what some people have said about there never being guns stuff in TFC, i honestly think it makes sense

 

Seeing as you live in a world inhabited by plant-based creatures that explode and drop gunpowder, you'd think that people would find a way to use that power relatively quickly, seeing how abundant it is,

it's not like people would have to invent gunpowder before using it, it's already in the world, used by Creepers.

 

actually. creepers are mutated pigs.

 

But yea, hard to believe that despite the abundance of exploding, dangerous marital, the only use is to make big craters. and powder kegs are not the best explosive due to the long time taken setting it up, and the well, huge waste of resources make it somewhat useless. We should have more explosives at the very least

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The Chinese had gunpowder long before the Europeans did, and it took them centuries to figure out that it had battlefield capabilities. The first attempts were rockets that could (at best) hit with 40m accuracy. They didn't explode, they only carried arrows.

 

The first successful powder based weapons were massive bombards that fire several kilo projectiles a couple hundred yards into castle walls. Despite being really slow to put in place and very expensive, they were favored due to capability of rendering castle walls and armor pointless.

 

- and to make bomb barrels suck less maybe make barrels retain their inventory when broken?-

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- and to make bomb barrels suck less maybe make barrels retain their inventory when broken?-

 

Already added in 78

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I'm up for cannon /catapult mutiblock structures, certainly expensive as hell, ammo too, maybe 2x black steel per bulet for cannons, natural stone for catapults

 

cannons are made of 3pc made of

7, red steel double sheet, crafted leggings-like, heated and welded whith 7 more black steel for mounting sheets togeter (bottom piece)

6, red steel double sheet, crafted like tool rack, welded with 4 black steel (tube piece 2x)

two pieces for supports at the sides, made of iron

 

to use it, you load gunpowder in it, press the powder with some baton, risk of exploding in your face if too much   (power controlable)

load the bullet, load some stuff to make pressure

insert the string for lighting it, light it KBOOM

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I'm up for cannon /catapult mutiblock structures, certainly expensive as hell, ammo too, maybe 2x black steel per bulet for cannons, natural stone for catapults

 

cannons are made of 3pc made of

7, red steel double sheet, crafted leggings-like, heated and welded whith 7 more black steel for mounting sheets togeter (bottom piece)

6, red steel double sheet, crafted like tool rack, welded with 4 black steel (tube piece 2x)

two pieces for supports at the sides, made of iron

 

to use it, you load gunpowder in it, press the powder with some baton, risk of exploding in your face if too much   (power controlable)

load the bullet, load some stuff to make pressure

insert the string for lighting it, light it KBOOM

--

Gosh... that's not believable... It is a surprise if you find a cannon made out of steel, most were made out of wrought iron.

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don't mind me, I was thinking way OP (red steel was about supporting the blast heat)

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Petards, you need Petards, It is the only thing that is age friendly.

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The thing is, it doesn't matter if you make them. no matter what "gun" you use that is period accurate. Most cannons users were considered to be marksmen if they could hit a castle from beyond 300m.This doesn't sound so bad when you consider most castles were freaking massive. The little player castles in most maps don't even qualify as strongholds in most real castles. (according to scale)

 

 

Most sieges with cannon were fired from about 100-150m away from the castle and the cannons missed regularly.

 

So with the expensive parts of the cannon in tfc you are left with a million dollar noise maker that will freak out anyone not knowing what is happening

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I'm not much into the PvP aspect of things, but I think this would add an interesting impact of the way people build. I'm sure people would use these tools to attack others, at which point those who feel the need to would build structures that defend themselves so much better. As of now I've seen people with red/blue steel still living in thatch huts or holes in the ground. These tools would of course have to be quite expensive, because using such devices when you're only knapping your first axe, or forging your first copper pickaxe seems way too early, and therefor unbelievable from my point of view. If the tools of war mentioned in this topic were expensive enough, this has some of my support. 

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I agree with the need for expensive siege weapons. I just don't want to see something that can rain hell on someone from miles away with pinpoint accuracy

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I see little practical use for cannons; from what Kazahied described it in his own words, the cannon serves more as an expensive terror weapon than an actual siege weapon. To put it in an analogy, the suggested cannon for TFC would be like building those experimental, giant artillery cannons built by the Germans during the Second World War(?).

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So you point it at someone's home/face to threaten and scare them, but you don't actually fire the thing?

 

I remember once, all I did was walk up to a guy with a splash potion of poison and decent armor and the guy tossed me all his stuff and ran away.

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So you point it at someone's home/face to threaten and scare them, but you don't actually fire the thing?

 

The thing is, period cannons were so unrealiable and inaccurate you run a bigger risk of blowing your self up then doing anything constructive.......unless you like shooting mountains, they could do that fairly well.

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That's a pretty wild exaggeration. =P

 

Cannons were extremely powerful weapons, they had no trouble hitting large defensive structures from pretty significant distances. They would eventually completely change naval warfare, and render traditional defensive fortifications obsolete, changing the face of warfare forever. After the development of rifling cannons became extremely accurate, but obviously anything that went into the game would no doubt be pre-rifling. In the period, cannons were pivotal in the sieges of Constantinople in the 14th and 15th centuries.

 

Muskets and other hand-operated firearms were very inaccurate (in that their purpose was shooting a relatively small target, and they were bad at it), but cannons were quite capable of hitting the relatively larger targets that they were used for.Firearms and cannons etc have come up quite a lot, and thus far there hasn't really been a good reason to implement them. I think there's more potential for a cannon than for handheld firearms, however. The upkeep of iron for ammunition and significant amounts of gunpowder would make them costly to use (yes many devices of this kind used dense, polished stone, but for the purpose of balance I'd think iron would make a better requirement), and most people would actually have little use for them. They'd really only be useful in PvP to bring down player-made fortifications, as I can't see them being used against mobs at all. 

 

That said, a catapult, trebuchet, or ballista would more than adequately fill the same role, except you wouldn't as easily be able to lock these types of siege weapons behind rare resources. They were pretty much built with readily available materials, and used stones as ammunition.

Edited by Hyena Grin
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That's a pretty wild exaggeration. =P

 

Cannons were extremely powerful weapons, they had no trouble hitting large defensive structures from pretty significant distances.

 

 

Cities yes, but the little 10x10 shacks that most players make no. Remember Constantinople was a freaking massive city, not a single house

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Already added in 78

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you please elaborate?  Were you just referring to inventory retention?  Or do the barrels not require as much gun powder to blow up?  It would be neat if they blew up proportionally to the amount of powder in the barrel. 

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If we are going to just use a cannon to point at someone and demand all their stuff on the pain of being blown up, then you might as well add "Quaker Cannons" from the civil war too. Quaker Cannons were simply logs painted to look like a cannon to make a force look more intimidating and better defended than it really was. If cannons simply become weapons of terror, having a line of cannons of which 2/3 are fakes could be used simply to make the line look bigger would be awesome.

 

I, personally am indifferent about cannons though, seeing as a good siege catapult would be as or more efective against fortifications as a cannon and balista and catapults would do just fine on ships. The cannon would work as an addition, but it wouldn't come close to being the end-all in combat

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Could you please elaborate?  Were you just referring to inventory retention?  Or do the barrels not require as much gun powder to blow up?  It would be neat if they blew up proportionally to the amount of powder in the barrel. 

 

As my post only quoted the part about inventory retention, yes that is just what I was referring to.

 

Might I suggest changing your theme to TFCraft down in the bottom left corner of the website? It looks like you're having a hard time distinguishing where quotes end and replies start.

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As my post only quoted the part about inventory retention, yes that is just what I was referring to.

 

Might I suggest changing your theme to TFCraft down in the bottom left corner of the website? It looks like you're having a hard time distinguishing where quotes end and replies start.

 

Mind... Blown...

 

I thought that issue was just a part of the forum software used, it never occurred to me to look for different themes! :o:D

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