Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
AllenWL

Explosives, a use for gunpowder.

72 posts in this topic

hmm I don´t really see any need for a update on gunpowder yet as the powder keg is fine as it is now (or I would love to see that you need less for one ;3) as we use it on Crococraft quiet alot for getting just cluster vains and digging out huge space for big builds but if there should be added something new it should be dynamite which needs less gun powder and makes smaller explosions but it is harder to make

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The proper use of support beams has become almost a requirement in B78. Cobble will fall sideways as well as down (like dirt) for better cave-ins, and if you happen to get caught in a collapse, there is a very high probability that it will be instant death. A collapse can also break support beams now if they aren't used properly (e.g. too far apart). Collapses are now also going to take the ore with them, and destroy it. Gone are the days of caving in all of the stone around a vein to better expose it.

 

That's sad news, considering it'll make cobblestone walls just about impossible to build. Walls will have to be made of either thatch, log, planks (requiring metal for the saw) or bricks (requiring metal for the chisel).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmm I don´t really see any need for a update on gunpowder yet as the powder keg is fine as it is now (or I would love to see that you need less for one ;3) as we use it on Crococraft quiet alot for getting just cluster vains and digging out huge space for big builds but if there should be added something new it should be dynamite which needs less gun powder and makes smaller explosions but it is harder to make

Powder kegs are fine for blasting apart huge areas of rock or demolishing entire buildings, but it's awfully hard to control, and because the explosion is centered around the keg itself, It takes some effort to get it exactly where you want

Plus it needs 4 stacks of powder, which can be hard to get.

Not to mention that a powder keg crater is really uneven and rough.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention that a powder keg crater is really uneven and rough.

 

The crater is actually perfectly symmetrical as long as the explosion is contained to a single material. The only reason you get uneven and rough craters is because different blocks have different blast resistances, so you can't really change that and are going to get the same result even with relatively small explosions.

 

Here is a powder keg explosion that is essentially contained to only exploding stone:

 

Posted Image

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crater is actually perfectly symmetrical as long as the explosion is contained to a single material. The only reason you get uneven and rough craters is because different blocks have different blast resistances, so you can't really change that and are going to get the same result even with relatively small explosions.

 

Here is a powder keg explosion that is essentially contained to only exploding stone:

 

But with small explosions, you can be more certain that you won't accidentally blow away something you didn't want to.

And yes, if done on only one type of blocks, powder kegs have a symmetrical crater but it's still not a crater you can use without some refining(unless you mean to make a landfill).

And that still doesn't change the fact that the crater is pretty rough 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your idea of a non-rough crater is essentially a semi-circle hole in the ground, that's never going to happen without a rewrite of the way that explosions are done in Minecraft.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vanilla tnt destroys a 3x3x3 block of stone, no?

So if we have a explosive with a smaller, more controlled blast rage, we would be able to smooth out the rough edges a lot faster then just mining the entire thing

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only if the TNT is enclosed in the center of the 3x3 of stone, as soon as you add any air blocks, things get rough very quickly. For example, here's the image from the Minecraft wiki:

 

Posted Image

 

The only way you can really get controlled explosions in Minecraft is if you enclose the explosive in the center of the blocks that you want to destroy. The only difference between a powder keg explosion and a TNT explosion is the blast radius (4 for TNT, 64 for Keg). The code looks like this:

createExplosion(entity exploding, Xcoord of entity, Ycoord of entity, Zcoord of entity, blast radius, particles true/false);

So you can only tell it what type of block is starting the explosion, where that block is located, and its blast radius (aka the strength). The explosion physics that are hard coded into the base game take care of everything else.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm that powderkegs, if used properly will blowup a 64 radius of solid stone. Its not the tool its the user that makes rough blast craters.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote-ka-blam!

Does the Powder Keg use that function? If so why does it explode in that perfect pattern you posted earlier?

 

And more importantly! Doesn't that mean Barrels, when sealed into Powder Kegs, could get a value of floor(Gunpowder/4) assigned to them. Like how Heat and other values are done. When this keg is set off, it uses the vanilla function with that number (derived explosive force!) as blast radius to make player controlled explosives?

 

Though I understand if this is avoided due to vanilla explosives destroying far more processing power than blocks.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only if the TNT is enclosed in the center of the 3x3 of stone, as soon as you add any air blocks, things get rough very quickly. For example, here's the image from the Minecraft wiki:

 

Posted Image

 

The only way you can really get controlled explosions in Minecraft is if you enclose the explosive in the center of the blocks that you want to destroy. The only difference between a powder keg explosion and a TNT explosion is the blast radius (4 for TNT, 64 for Keg). The code looks like this:

createExplosion(entity exploding, Xcoord of entity, Ycoord of entity, Zcoord of entity, blast radius, particles true/false);

So you can only tell it what type of block is starting the explosion, where that block is located, and its blast radius (aka the strength). The explosion physics that are hard coded into the base game take care of everything else.

 

 

I can confirm that powderkegs, if used properly will blowup a 64 radius of solid stone. Its not the tool its the user that makes rough blast craters.

 

I know you can control powder kegs as well, but I'd like to be able to blow up small stuff too, and different size explosions let you have more choice about how you'll blow stuff up.

And small explosives are a bit easier to control then powder kegs...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you can control powder kegs as well, but I'd like to be able to blow up small stuff too, and different size explosions let you have more choice about how you'll blow stuff up.

And small explosives are a bit easier to control then powder kegs...

 

as I said Before Dynamite! that could be a great Idea! :D  it can be actived with flint and steel only and it has the size of a torch and makes a 3x3x3 hole?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an idea for a dynamite that will do just that, blow up a 3x3x3 of stone (or more if more powder is added) right in the op.

 

Also

 

I know you can control powder kegs as well, but I'd like to be able to blow up small stuff too, and different size explosions let you have more choice about how you'll blow stuff up.

And small explosives are a bit easier to control then powder kegs...

I want to re-phrase this a bit.

If I have a small explosion, (say, the vanilla tnt) every time I detonate the thing, I can be pretty sure that I'll just blow up stone, and not hit gravel or anything that would make the crater uneven. And even then, I can be pretty sure it would be easy to clean up.

 

With a powder keg, the large blast area means that there is a bigger chance of hitting dirt/gravel pockets, or even opening up into other caves, all which would mess up the blast area and make uneven, hard-to navigate craters, and if a powder keg explosion hits dirt/gravel when exploding, the resulting crater would be significantly more rough and hard to clean up then if I was using something weaker.

 

Plus, The powder keg is somewhat useless for things like house demolition or setting traps near your base due to it's large blast radius.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you bury the keg with red stone leading to it you can mostly dampen the blast radius with stone, in open air i think it reaches like 80+ blocks but in stone it only reaches 64. bury this under supports for a tunnel then when you need to counter an invasion through the tunnel you can collapse it.

 

 

But I agree, having smaller charges would make it 100x easier to rig explosives for defense and offense.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially if we don't have to re-fill a crater of 60ish blocks radius every time the trap is set off.

Also, I'd really love to be able to make tnt cannons again, or at least something similar.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering the time period, hand held explosives for use in combat would only really be balanced if there was a relatively high rate that the thing exploded in your hand and killed you when you try to throw it

So, handheld explosives would only be balanced if about half-ish time you died while using it?

 

Anyways, I was thinking, shouldn't explosions be a damage/attack type too other then slashing, piercing and crushing?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blunt damage, it is. It should replace crushing damage, though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how about bomb sharpinals?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shrapnel would be piercing obviously.

I'm all for dynamite as a smaller explosive. Handheld? Eeehhhh. Like kitty said, only if the were really dangerous. Not really work the coding time. Shaped charges would be EXTREMELY interesting, but can the be coded? Kitty said something about explosions being hard coded. Could you get around that to do shaped or is that impossible? Regardless, smaller explosives are super easy to implement, I see no reason not to in the future

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I say 'shaped explosive' I don't mean the explosion has a shape.

Basically, instead of the explosion being centered around the explosive, the explosion centers in front of the explosive.

 

Like, if a normal powder keg is:

xxx

xex

xxx

 

The shaped explosive is

  xxx

exxx

  xxx

 

e being the explosive and the x's the explosion

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to change what happens to blocks after being subjected to blast forces? Instead of disappearing, could solid stone be converted to, say, cobblestone and left in place (free to fall)?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I say 'shaped explosive' I don't mean the explosion has a shape.Basically, instead of the explosion being centered around the explosive, the explosion centers in front of the explosive.Like, if a normal powder keg is:xxxxexxxxThe shaped explosive is xxxexxx xxxe being the explosive and the x's the explosion

I know. "Shaped charge" is just a term
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a really interesting topic. Exactly today I was wondering how I could use that keg I meant to create, and I had different ideas, but I ended up disappointed when I read the wiki and I saw the limited number of uses and the expensiveness of a single keg. Also gunpowder itself has little to no use.

 

But anyway, let's come to the suggestions: 

I think that gunpowder could be used as fuse, because it doesn't really have sense to light and detonate an explosive with some shiny red powder. I think we should need gunpowder itself to do this. Basically you craft 4 small piles of gunpowder with a knife and a gunpowder pile, then you can place these in the ground. They're flammable, but not like hay or wood, they don't catch fire showing the big red flame, they simply ignite and consume themselves to transmit the flame to the next adiacent placed gunpowder. Of course, it's a powder, so it can't ignite a normally placed barrel, it can only ignite a barrel placed "orizontally" (Sorry I don't know the exact term for a barrel placed like this) and with the hole, that one that every explosive barrel has, in the bottom. Of course this isn't a really efficient type of fuse because being made of powder it could accidentally explode or burn out instead.

 

So here it comes, the tier 2 fuse, basically a real fuse this time, made of wool yarn. To craft this one you should need to soak the wool yarn in a sticky type of liquid, I don't know if vinegar could be useful, maybe we could include a new sticky liquid to add to the barrel recipes, something that we get from fish. Anyway, to do this, you can place up to 8 wool yarns in the barrel with that sticky liquid and seal it. It could take some time, Then, when the barrel ends its work, you take the 8 soaked wool yarns and craft them with a single gunpowder to create 8 fuse segments. These act like the previous small piles of gunpowder. You place them in the ground and ignite them. That's all. The advantage is that this type of fuse has a lower chance to burn out and no chance to explode, due to the very small quantity of gunpowder in every fuse segment. Also, this fuse can be used with normally placed barrels, so you can use it with more types of explosives ( if someone of you comes up with a liquid explosive, I guess you can't place that barrel orizontally). The disadvantages of this fuse is that the recipe is more expensive and you also need to have the crafting table upgrade and a barrel ready. 

 

Oh, also, you can't place orizontally barrels that are more than 20% full of gunpowder, otherwise the gunpowder will come out.

 

So, I really hope this wasn't already suggested. I didn't have the time to read everything :( and I hope I wrote everything correctly and gave you some new ideas.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, gunpowder trails have been talked about, although the fuse is new. I doubt we need a crafting recipe for the 'gunpowder pile' just making gunpowder placeable should be fine. No need to add a another item. I think detonating with redstone should still work, because people, I think would like insta-detonating their explosives, and the use of buttons, levers, and pressure plates when blowing stuff up. The fuse and drawbacks of gunpowder is quite new though.

 

Nut if we do make fuses, I think all fuses should be ingnitable with a redstone pulse so we can still hook up the fuse to a lever and blow it up, instead of having to cart a firestarter everywhere, and make traps.

disadvantages of this fuse is that the recipe is more expensive and you also need to have the crafting table upgrade and a barrel ready. 

Um, a powder keg is a barrel.

I doubt having a barrel and crafting table upgrade is much of a disadvantage to someone who already has both

 

Though, how about this type of fuse?

Made with gunpowder and redstone, when lit/powered, it waits one tick(the gunpowder being lit by redstone), then ignites any explosives rigged up to it, and has no distance limit(other then chunks unloading I guess).

 

But I think powders should be able to light 'normal' barrels, as I don't think there is a real reason to place barrels horizontally and give it a disadvantage.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt having a barrel and crafting table upgrade is much of a disadvantage to someone who already has both

 Yep sorry, that's right. I was clearly tired yesterday evening. Anyway it's still more expensive due to the need of using wool yarn. I am in a SSP world and I still have to find sheeps to get some wool, so in my case, it would be out of reach and I should need to use the gunpowder itself.

 

 

I doubt we need a crafting recipe for the 'gunpowder pile' just making gunpowder placeable should be fine.

Also about this. I think balance should be considered here. It's right, we could simply place gunpowder, but usually we make long fuses, just to manage to go out of the explosive's range. Also, a smaller quantity of gunpowder reduces the chances of explosion. In this case we need gunpowder to act like a fuse, so a smaller quantity of it would be safer and would allow you to make longer fuses with the same amount of gunpowder.

 

 

But I think powders should be able to light 'normal' barrels, as I don't think there is a real reason to place barrels horizontally and give it a disadvantage.

Yep, horizontally placed barrels are a disadvantage when you have a considerable amoutn of resources, but not in the early game. You only have the gunpowder fuse available, and it can only be used on horizontally placed barrels, because it's not really practical, being a fuse made of powder. This would also add a bit of balance in the game, not allowing you to immediately be able to detone completely full kegs, but just partially full kegs that generate a smaller explosion. This way you're not a professional miner at the start of the game. 

 

Of course I know my suggestions still need some modifications, and I appreciate AllenWL's constructive criticism :) I tried to explain why I chose to suggest some things here, if you think they're unappropriate, useless or maybe just not right, let's keep the suggestions going :)

 

Though, how about this type of fuse?

Made with gunpowder and redstone, when lit/powered, it waits one tick(the gunpowder being lit by redstone), then ignites any explosives rigged up to it, and has no distance limit(other then chunks unloading I guess).

Well, actually that's a great idea, I didn't think about this at first, but we still need a fuse able to work with levers, that's true. So yeah this fuse could be something like an alternative tier 2 fuse. Anyway if we will have this fuse ingame, we shouldn't be able to detonate explosives with simple redstone, we should need to use this fuse instead, or the other 2 ofc. Also, this fuse should have some advantages and disadvantages, so I try to suggest some:Advantages:

 

No risk of explosions or burnouts. 

Quite cheaper if you find a vein of redstone.

The detonation is almost immediate, being the fuse full of redstone, due to the high conductivity, the flame travels quite faster.

 

Disadvantages:

 

Not cheaper if you don't find redstone.

It's powder, it shouldn't be able to pe placed vertically. (This part here still needs some improvements)

You can't turn it off like with the wool yarn fuse if you ever change idea or you notice there's no escape from the explosion.

 

That's all for now. I really like this topic however, it makes mining more interesting :) +1 to the original post!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites