TFC Endgame - To the Clouds!

[Thrainn 2]

[Off-Topic] 

As this is my first post in these forums, I would like to thank the developers for this fantastic mod - since I started playing TFC a few months ago, I haven't even touched vanilla (or any other mod for that matter) at all! “Survival Mode as it should have been.” - I completely agree with this quote from the info-page from TFC. To even top this unique and immersive gaming experience, it has motivated me greatly to learn about our real-life history, about geology, metal processing and more; I have spent many hours on wikipedia between sessions of TFC! And, in the end, it even brought me to the complex game Dwarf Fortress, from which supposedly came many ideas of this mod. 

[/Off-Toppic - sorry about this, but I had to say this.]

 

 

Introduction:

Now on to my actual suggestion: After probably hundreds of hours in my (single-player) TFC-world I abandoned it with a rather unsatisfied and unmotivated feeling - I could nowhere seem to find any graphite needed for advancing to steel processing and was therefore stuck forever in the iron age, even I had everything else needed for the highest tier metals, red and blue steel. But then I thought, what for?

Except for the - while indeed very interestingly made - steel processing itself with blast furnaces, crucible metallurgy and somesuch, or the by the time rather obsolete possibility to move water and lava, there was really not much to be gained by moving on (except perhaps shiny blue or red armors). One can survive pretty comfortably with iron stuff.

 

Suggestion:

What would have motivated me to go on? What would have got me to turn my whole TFC-world upside down if necessary, just to find a few pieces of graphite? Well, there is one thing, which would have very possibly accomplished just that: Ingame Flight!

Wouldn't it be just incredibly awesome to be able to build some kind of simple flying contraption (maybe a hot air balloon would be appropriate and believable in Terrafirmacraft?), which would perhaps require both blue and red steel parts as well as quite some preparation and time to build, take it and make a nostalgic flight over the regions in which you spent countless (ingame-) years, seeing them from above the first time, visit old places like e.g. an old abandoned mineshaft in which you maybe found your first copper vein (the famous Paul Soares Jr. did something like that in his legendary first "Survive and Thrive"-world, it's also comparible to what I myself always do in the GTA-Games), or maybe even grab a few things and abandon your old home forever in search of a new continent far away (maybe in another climate) to settle on for a new beginning.

I think a balloon would be well within the timeframe and believability of TFC, and was in fact the first means of men to take on the skies. (Ingame maps in addition to this suggestion would be even more awesome - but that is another discussion ...)

 

I am well aware that there is Creative Mode, in which you could fly as much as you please, but I think I'd never start a TFC-world with Creative, if just for preventing myself to get tempted with this "god-mode" - apart from that: this is Terrafirmacraft! To just being able to walk in thin air would completely kill the immersion of this great game for me.

 

Possible Realization:

To stick with the hot air balloon idea: I have no idea how hard it would be to technically implement something like this, but can it be really that complicated? I can imagine a very simple contraption made out of a boat (or maybe the new nest-box?) as basket or gondola, something roughly globular like the big rock boulders spawning all over the world, just with a new texture, as the envelope of the balloon, and perhaps something like bow strings or fishing lines in between. Flight itself would be based on that of Creative Mode; the balloon wouldn't even have to change its position with the direction (only the character itself would do that, like e.g. movements sitting in a boat) because of its more or less concentric shape - in contrast to planes, for instance, which would have to turn into the desired direction, which I can imagine would be much more complicated to code. So it's basically just adding something above and below a flying Creative character. Or am I completely wrong here, you programmers out there? 

As for the crafting itself: like I mentioned before, it would strictly require TFC end game materials like red and blue steel in addition to ropes/cloth/leather, whatever would fit. When built, it would need considerable amounts of coal for operating (to heat the air in the balloon and keep it hot). I'm not sure if it would be possible to build like e.g. a vanilla iron golem or a bloomery; that would be like making a blast furnace with all its blocks take off from the ground - may the programmers enlighten me!

 

Reality:

I'm also aware, that real-life hot air balloons were more like "take off and land wherever the wind takes you" than steerable crafts (those came later in form of airships with elongated balloons filled with gases like hydrogen or helium and fins/wings/airscrews for propelling and navigating, which would be awesome too, but would have to turn into the directions, aside from the need of a gas source in TFC!), but it still would be "believable" enough for me.

 

 

I apologize if this or something similar was discussed before, but I did my homework and searched the forums and came up with nothing. I am also sorry for the length of this post, and thank you all for your patience!

 

Please let me know what you think about that in general and if it even would be worth the work, since I only understand very little about coding and what's possible or not. 

[Kazahied 42]

Sounds good. An idea for the aircraft though;

 

A hot air balloon would fit within the time constraints of tfc, but a more dirigible style vehicle would be a better "fit" game-play wise. With a balloon you are at the mercies of the wind (which doesn't exist in mc), but a dirigible would be able to (slowly) power itself along (like a zeppelin, but more antiquated). would also need fuel (coal maybe) to power the balloon for lift and the engine for thrust.

[Thrainn 2]

Sounds good. An idea for the aircraft though;

 

A hot air balloon would fit within the time constraints of tfc, but a more dirigible style vehicle would be a better "fit" game-play wise. With a balloon you are at the mercies of the wind (which doesn't exist in mc), but a dirigible would be able to (slowly) power itself along (like a zeppelin, but more antiquated). would also need fuel (coal maybe) to power the balloon for lift and the engine for thrust.

 

You're right of course ... but it seems I wasn't clear enough with what I meant under 'Reality'; maybe I should add a little bit:

 

"I'm also aware, that real-life hot air balloons were more like 'take off and land wherever the wind takes you' than steerable crafts (...), but it still would be 'believable' enough for me, if we still could steer them wherever we want!"

 

Because with any additions to the simple balloon like rudders and the like would make it necessary for it to visually turn into the direction you want to fly, which I guess would be much more complicated to implement than a static thing like a simple balloon which would always stay in the same position, regardless of direction. Know what I mean?

[corki99 23]

It is a cool idea but I do not think it would fit in, but it might if there was some research system added to TFC

[Kazahied 42]

Maybe locked plans that can only be found in dungeons in the underground once mobs get moved there?

 

The locked plans would be the crucial parts to make the machine actually be pilot-able, but would have to be found.

 

Or for simplicity the parts them selves (like say the engine) would need to be found in dungeons and would be guarded by many mobs and mob spawners.

[Omicron 62]

I'm not sure if flight fits the theme of the mod, but you do have a point in saying that after arriving in the iron age, your progression goals pretty much end. At that point, you're either motivated for creative building (armed with dozens of wood and stone types and a trusty chisel), or you just kind of... stop, unless you already have the ingredients for fire clay by pure luck.

[AllenWL 186]

Maybe locked plans that can only be found in dungeons in the underground once mobs get moved there?

 

The locked plans would be the crucial parts to make the machine actually be pilot-able, but would have to be found.

 

Or for simplicity the parts them selves (like say the engine) would need to be found in dungeons and would be guarded by many mobs and mob spawners.

Like long-lost remains of a once-great civilization?

 

Well, what if we put in wind into minecraft?

You can tell what direction the wind blows and it's speed by looking at the clouds, or there could be 'wind particles' that show you the direction of the wind.

If you don't wan't to fly away, then you could just tether the balloon using rope

I think it'll be a lot more fun to use the 'wind particles' or cloud to see the wind speed and directions and use that instead of steering.

 

The balloon can be made of wool cloth and leather, and with some metal sheets(to hold the fire). You could use a rope made with string/wool yarn and craft it with a boat or something

[Kazahied 42]

could use both, but clouds are basiclly stuck the way they are due to minecrafts crap code. We could put a gauge on the aircraft itsself like a wind vayne

[Thrainn 2]

 

It is a cool idea but I do not think it would fit in, but it might if there was some research system added to TFC

 

I'm not sure if flight fits the theme of the mod, but you do have a point in saying that after arriving in the iron age, your progression goals pretty much end. At that point, you're either motivated for creative building (armed with dozens of wood and stone types and a trusty chisel), or you just kind of... stop, unless you already have the ingredients for fire clay by pure luck.

 

Could you please elaborate? Why do you think it wouldn't fit into TFC?

 

Me personally, I see no reason for it not fitting in; if you can get pipes (already announced for b78) and pumps or the like, why couldn't one come up with the idea of hot air being lighter than normal air and would therefore be able to leave the ground? Hell, a blast furnace didn't fall from the sky for use of humanity either, in fact blast furnaces are quite a complicated thing themselves. If the simple princible of a hot air balloon doesn't fit into this mod, then neither do any kind of steam-powered machinery and somesuch, currently discussed in another thread ...

 

The whole point in this suggestion is adding some kind of motivating and useful goal to TFC, something which would you keep going (other than building cities which you practically can do nothing with!) when there's nothing else useful to achieve left.

 

 

The idea of finding plans or parts in dungeon chests is nice too, but I don't think it would even be necessary, and besides would need to get 'believably' implemented as well ... 

 

Wind in TFC would be awesome - especially for another field which would interest me greatly: believable sailing!

But wouldn't that be a pain to code? Wouldn't there be loads of new lag sources?

 

 

One of the big points in my suggestion is as much simplicity as possible to get something off the ground. I would also really like to see a more or less professional opinion on that matter: would it even be possible to get a multi-block construction moving (preferably with oneself sitting on it!) without all to much effort?

[Kazahied 42]

A simple way to break wind down so as not to cause lag would be using the heat map from various biomes.

 

In regions where there are significant temperature changes wind would blow from cold to hot. (not the slight difference due to moving north or south)

 

In regions where there is no major temp difference wind would be dead, or use a pattern of east-> west| west ->east, that alternates every 1k north or south.

 

this way it takes the data from your location rather than the actual block you are at.

[Omicron 62]

Could you please elaborate? Why do you think it wouldn't fit into TFC?

 

Me personally, I see no reason for it not fitting in; if you can get pipes (already announced for b78) and pumps or the like, why couldn't one come up with the idea of hot air being lighter than normal air and would therefore be able to leave the ground? Hell, a blast furnace didn't fall from the sky for use of humanity either, in fact blast furnaces are quite a complicated thing themselves. If the simple princible of a hot air balloon doesn't fit into this mod, then neither do any kind of steam-powered machinery and somesuch, currently discussed in another thread ...

 

 

Correct, they don't appear to fit either. That's the realm of addons. Just because it's discussed in the suggestion forum doesn't mean it's appropriate - I could suggest a moon rocket if I wanted to

 

TFC has always been about the stone age and early metalworking. The blast furnace is literally the single most high-tech piece of equipment in the entire mod - and before build 77, which you are playing right now, didn't even exist! It was new in this build (previously we made everything in a bloomery). And despite it's high-tech status, it's actually Older Than You Think, being developed in China more than 2100 years ago, in what we would call the "first century BC". Or well, that's when they were first documented in records surviving today. They may be older, considering the iron age started well before 1200 BC.

 

So technically, anything developed during times stamped with the "AD" seal of the christian calendar is probably not in the scope of the mod. No known record of hot air balloons appears before 200 AD (handmade floating lanterns in China, again), and the first manned hot air balloon free-flight famously happened in France in 1782 AD. Similarly, steam power goes back to the first century AD in Greece, but no actually working engines were built until the early 1600's.

 

Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt, because I am not actually a developer - that's why I said "I am not sure if it fits" I've just been hanging around these forums for long enough to have seen spelled out many times in varying grades of precision what exactly is and isn't fitting. The "BC only" rule is one I've made up for myself, but it's been holding up quite well for over a year now.

[Kazahied 42]

I forget where but it is generally accepted that the mod end date is mid 15th century

[Thrainn 2]

[...]

 

I can see where you are going; the point which concerns me most is the fact what what kind of ideas may have been accepted or not in the past - I most certainly haven't been reading at these forums for as long as you ...

 

However, if we are talking about history of science and numbers of 'firsts': according to Wikipedia, chinese experiments with hot air balloons for military signalling occurred as early as the 3rd century BC, contrary to your statement. And the chinese Kongming-Lanterns, which you are referring to, really aren't so much different to the first manned hot air balloons (which admittedly came much later in history, while it's a mystery to me why the chinese didn't think about that earlier!) other than in size, I launched one of these things myself at New Year's recently, as I'm currently living in China.

 

Also, the first blast furnaces in China most likely didn't have much in common with much later European blast furnaces other than in principle, and the TFC blast furnace is clearly derived from the latter in appearance ...

 

 

Aside from all that, I think this suggestion (or something similar) is worth implementing even just for its purpose alone! Don't forget, you won't see anything of it until you reach a point in TFC, when most players likely would stop playing or start a new world, as there is nothing more to achieve. I think it isn't really so much of a question of fitting or not, as long as it's still in the realm of 'believability' and craftable with existing TFC-materials, and not something really too far-fetched like a moon rocket 

 

Of course, there could be other interesting goals to keep you playing on, I just can't think of anything more pleasing and motivating than ingame flight, which among other advantages would allow you to see your world from a quite different perspective (quite literally), especially with the new implementation of volcanic regions in b78! I don't know about you guys, but I tend to grow quite fond of my MC worlds, in which I experience so many adventures, so that really would mean much to me.

 

[Off-Topic]

I don't necessarily need the other stuff like steam engines or the other complicated machines people are discussing about, but when I think about it, I honestly wouldn't mind either, if TFC some time in the future evolves into something like "from Stoneage to the Great Age of Inventions" or something - Steampunk does have it's charm! But I agree, that would really shoot over the target for TFC ... I would be very well satisfied with my TFC Endgame Balloon 

[Kazahied 42]

Tfc does need more to do once you have achieved colored steel. By having primitive flying machines it would open quite a bit for multiplayer and adventure design

[Copper 7]

"Appropriate" or not, I'd love to see this.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

If you guys really want to have stuff like hot air balloons, you could always just install Archimedes' Ships mod and use a third party mod like CustomNPCs to change the crafting recipes for the helm and gauges to use colored steel, and fix any other recipes that use vanilla items that are unavailable in TFC.

[Kazahied 42]

So is that an official "not going to happen" ?

[Kittychanley 1,002]

So is that an official "not going to happen" ?

 

I wouldn't say that, but it's definitely a "you can already do this with other mods instead of waiting for it to be added to the based code of TFC."

[Wandering_eye 3]

instead of a dirigible, why not have a leonardo di vinci style glider wich doesn't allow flight as such but you can glide for some distance out around a mountain. That would be just fine for flight I think.