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Jag

Canoes

79 posts in this topic

I had a good idea a while back while playing. Being without a boat early in game can be frustrating, especially while travelling to look for ores. It got me thinking: How were boats made long ago?Canoes originally were made from birch bark and animal hide, both of which could be easily implemented, in the same way as the Tanning Rack that's also been mentioned. Or, to make another interesting bit, a Dugout Canoe: Set three blocks of wood horizontally on the ground, and right click each piece with a stone axe until it's shaped, at which point it pops up so that you can carry it [With the Slowness/Weakness/Miner's Fatigue attributes temporarily added.]Or, you could make a Birch Bark canoe, which is made from using a knife on a birch log, stripping off the bark, at which point you can place them on the ground like straw, and then add twine or string to lace it up into a canoe.

 

Just a few ideas, not sure how these woudl be implemented into code, but it could be cool to be able to make fishing harpoons and go out for the day to fish for squid.

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I like your perspective! but actually, the physical navigation system (by boat) is real shit!!

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Canoes? Try the Australian English setting.

It's not quite worth adding a new method of construction just to produce one early game item. The early game moves pretty fast if you're lucky. Most players would never need to construct a primitive canoe.

 

Consider perhaps a log raft. Made by combining 4 logs (same type) into the player crafting table, then 4 of those same bundles (16 logs to a raft). Making it horrendously less resource efficient compared to a boat.

Breaking it could return you with all 16 logs, i guess. Since log rafts were used to transport logs. They would also be constructable remotely should you need to travel while exploring without a saw. This method of building the canoe might add too many item ID's, and given how easy it is to get logs. Simply using 4 logs in a crafting grid would do.

 

Like Iandryx said, boats are pretty shitty. They control horribly, break at the drop of a hat, and at the same time are overpowered. Despite not having a sail on them, and probably needing the player to row. You don't get fatigued travelling by boat.

 

If someone has some java skills they could make a small add-on to try this out.

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I might try my hand at boats. But I need to do some refreshing with minecraft code, haven't modded since the early beta days.

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I like this idea but I wouldn't like the log raft to have the exact same capability of the vanilla boat, regardless of the resource intensive recipe.  Also while you're at it you could add an upgraded version of the vanilla boat :D

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If I do make the add-on, I will most likely make the raft be very sluggish in the water.

 

Other ideas would be:

Raft would have a small chest worth of inventory.

 

Different sizes of raft, made by crafting 2x2 of each smaller raft.

 

Bigger rafts can carry more people.

 

Might try to design a varient of the vanilla boat that has a sail but would make it rather small. (large ships have tons of issues to cover, like buoyancy and physics)

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@kazahiedI think perhaps that could be a good way to set up, but canoes could be a faster alternative to rafts. Also, for rafts, perhaps it would be effective to set them so that you have to pole thme [using a stick] to keep them going in the right direction? A right click for a small boost, perhaps a separate item for poling that would lose durability?Also, a small chest's worth could be too much; maybe if you used a code similar to tool racks that displays items on the raft itself? 

@starxephirFor the sake of argument, indigenous australians used dugout canoes. ;P[[EDIT]]

Sauce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Dugout_Canoes

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Adding sticks is an unnecessary detail. You don't need oars for a boat. Block Man is an EXCELLENT paddler. Making it handle like a Drunk or Slow is fair enough... It's really just a low-quality boat. Again most players would never ever need one. It would really be there for vanity and accessibility's sake.

 

Well wood working with Adze-like tools was pretty common throughout the ancient world. I feel like Aborigines got a bad roll like in a Civilization game :P. On one hand they got sweet early-game boats, but Australia is so isolated, and has so much land.

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How old does a tread needs to be to be considered a necro?

I think this idea is good and steel deserves attention.

One way to manufacturer a canoe would be to place a log down and  carve it with a ax.

Maybe we would have a mode for the ax same as with the chisel only it would be the canoe mode.

People say we don't need it because stone age is too short.

I keep saying that it should be longer.

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How old does a tread needs to be to be considered a necro?

Necro is when you post something useless in an old thread, that's not the case because what you posted adds something to the thread.

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I never liked vanilla boats anyway. Whoever heard of a [steerable] boat without a motor, sail, or paddle?

 

 

How about this: scrap the vanilla boats entirely. Place 3 logs down on the ground (sideways, lining up). Right click on [the top of] one with an axe, it creates a hollow across them down the middle (also shaves the front and back to be more pointed). Keep doing this until you get a full dugout. Craft a log, knife and stick into a paddle. Break dugout, get canoe. Place in water. Get in boat. Press shift to sit down (shift again to stand up). While sitting, press right click to paddle on the right side, left click to paddle on the left. If you paddle right, you turn left and vice-versa. Maybe allow up to two players to sit in it. Alone, click left-right-left-right to go straight. Two players could just pick a side each. In a canoe, the person sitting at the back steers.

 

Additionally, holding either clicking option holds the paddle in the water. This creates a lot of drag on that side. If you hold the paddle on the left side of the boat, you turn left sharply but also cut most of your speed.

 

Right click while standing to get out. Left click while standing to hit someone with your paddle (if you feel like going for a swim, that is).

 

This is an idea. This isn't [necessarily] going to happen. I'd have to talk to bioxx about it first. He liked it. Now onto the next step: figuring out whether it has a use / how well we can implement it. If it's a hassle, it may be scrapped.

 

further update: no more boat-breaking when you ram your boat into  the shore! Do this to land. Get out of the canoe and hold right click on the prow to drag/push the canoe out of or into the water. When you break the canoe, it is very, very large. It can't be placed in any chest and will render upside down on top of the players head when in the player's inventory. It will slow the player significantly and prevent them from sprinting while in the inventory. Boats aren't something you throw in a chest when you're not using them. Either leave them by the water or portage for short distances.

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I loved. Is a lot more believable than a magic boat.

It makes sense and is how a canoe or boat should behave.

It may get hard to cross big oceans, but it should be hard.

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Well, rivers should led in general to some key areas, like places rich in certain ressources. Deep water lakes for good fishing, or berries field per exemple.

 

I always wanted being rewarded by taking the river path.

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I never liked vanilla boats anyway. Whoever heard of a [steerable] boat without a motor, sail, or paddle?

 

 

How about this: scrap the vanilla boats entirely. Place 3 logs down on the ground (sideways, lining up). Right click on [the top of] one with an axe, it creates a hollow across them down the middle (also shaves the front and back to be more pointed). Keep doing this until you get a full dugout. Craft a log, knife and stick into a paddle. Break dugout, get canoe. Place in water. Get in boat. Press shift to sit down (shift again to stand up). While sitting, press right click to paddle on the right side, left click to paddle on the left. If you paddle right, you turn left and vice-versa. Maybe allow up to two players to sit in it. Alone, click left-right-left-right to go straight. Two players could just pick a side each. In a canoe, the person sitting at the back steers.

 

Additionally, holding either clicking option holds the paddle in the water. This creates a lot of drag on that side. If you hold the paddle on the left side of the boat, you turn left sharply but also cut most of your speed.

 

Right click while standing to get out. Left click while standing to hit someone with your paddle (if you feel like going for a swim, that is).

 

This is an idea. This isn't [necessarily] going to happen. I'd have to talk to bioxx about it first. He liked it. Now onto the next step: figuring out whether it has a use / how well we can implement it. If it's a hassle, it may be scrapped.

 

further update: no more boat-breaking when you ram your boat into  the shore! Do this to land. Get out of the canoe and hold right click on the prow to drag/push the canoe out of or into the water. When you break the canoe, it is very, very large. It can't be placed in any chest and will render upside down on top of the players head when in the player's inventory. It will slow the player significantly and prevent them from sprinting while in the inventory. Boats aren't something you throw in a chest when you're not using them. Either leave them by the water or portage for short distances.

I like this idea! If it gets implemented, I will definitely use it! I do a lot of cross island/landmass travel whenever i play, so this would be great for me.

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What about a sailboat?

It's believable and have been used for thousands of years.

At least you would not have to paddle.

To be really nice it needs to be a multiblock construction.

But it does not need to be too big.

Maybe 3 blocks wide by 3 or 4 blocks tall.

 

Posted Image

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Posted Image

I can see a really good use for clothing here if it will be introduced.

Also, having different types of boat would be cool, so everyone chooses the one he/she thinks that fits more in that world and with those resources. Maybe this one could fit for someone who lives near the equator, because there's wind (Not in minecraft, but IRL) and the boat is quite large but there aren't ice blocks there.

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I was just on another tread talking about dyes. Can you imagine if we had those sailboats and were able to dye the sail?

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I was just on another tread talking about dyes. Can you imagine if we had those sailboats and were able to dye the sail?

Man yes I can imagine that, it would be the coolest thing ever. Yeah I just came here from that topic too and I saw your suggestion of using pots. I think it should work the same way for sails.

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I hope you guys don't want cloth physics. Besides, bioxx and I were talking about sail boats a while back and we looked into how sailing works and it's pretty complicated :/

 

Adjusting the sail, using the rudder...

 

 

I guess we DO have most of the materials... Cloth, rope, planks... 

 

 

If they were added, there'd have to be some limitations to them for sure... For starters, no picking them up. They'd probably have to be built at or very near the water. No ramming them into blocks, that'd damage them... Probably have to weigh anchor or tie them to a post to steady them. Next, how do you sit in one? are you locked into a seat or can you move around? Can you put other entities in them and how would that interfere with the boom? How do you adjust the boom and rudder? Will it end up being an ugly mechanic?

 

This is how you sail: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_of_sail

 

The angle of the boom looks like 38 degrees for all points of sail except with the wind, which has it at 13 degrees. Math time :) If we call the angle of the boat's heading perpendicular from the wind direction λ(lambda) and the angle of the boom perpendicular to the wind θ(theta), the velocity of the wind as V, then we can see that the magnitude of velocity in the direction of the boat's heading is equal to cos(λ)V / tan(θ). (I think).

 

 

The no-go zone makes sense if the angle of the sail is 38 degrees, as it means that the boat is unable to sail when the angle of the boat is closer to against the wind than the boom is.

 

As far as controls, let's just say that [a] and [d] control the rudder and that [w] and control the boom? That could probably work. Having other entities is I guess another thing to consider. Maybe a way to move animals over the ocean?

 

As for building, I think it's a little difficult. Having individual "parts" crafted and assembled just sounds messy. What about a "boat builders' bench". You place it next to the water and right click to open its UI. The interface has a number of slots for items with associated ship parts and item quantities, such as "Hull", "Deck", "Mast", "Sail", "Rigging", "Rudder", "Keel", and "Boom". Possibly more. Once you have the required items, you place a saw and a hammer in two tool slots (like the anvil). And then for each piece you can do a mini-game that operates similar to the anvil, but where the theme is cutting and attaching planks together. Not sure how this would work, but it would be possible to mess up. No cooling metal though. Once you've constructed all the parts, it'll just assemble them into your boat in the water and there you go.

 

The sailboat would require planks and saws obviously as opposed to the canoe. It would be more difficult to steer, especially upwind but wouldn't require constant paddling like a canoe and could go much faster.

 

 

THIS is just an idea. Discuss it, talk about it, whatever but don't assume this is happening.

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The way you described how sails work sounds like it would be too impractical for TFC. Besides, at the moment, you don't really even need a vessel to travel anywhere on ocean biomes if you're stocked up on plenty of food and water (and have an immense patience). Resources are also pretty abundant if you know where to look, anyway. That is not to say it might not be coded into the mod, however.

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Some boat mods

 

http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1289952-archimedes-ships-v1-7-banking-ships

 

http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/wip-mods/1442761-wip-small-boats-elegant-punt-whitehall

 

As for implenting realistic sailing minigames. Ideas:

 

Entities can stand in the boat

 

There are 2 areas that can be right clicked to enter control rudder mode (steering mode) and adjust sail mode respectively

 

The adjust sail mode would be about adjusting how the boat reacts to wind. I'm thinking something similar to how powered rails work (except powered by wind instead of redstone). It would of course be more complicated due to the fact wind can come from multiple directions and different wind speeds

 

The boom can just be made so entities can't pass through it (if you want to have a lot of room you are going to want to have it placed 3 blocks above the deck)

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 you don't really even need a vessel to travel anywhere on ocean biomes if you're stocked up on plenty of food and water (and have an immense patience).

This is a problem. Also, once body temperature is implemented, you MAY want to think twice about jumping into the ocean in the winter...

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At the moment, such a thing is possible.

 

There was a collaboration effort between two mod developers (Ships and Boats mod and PhysicsCraft mod) over at the Minecraft forums to combine their mods into one. Sadly, SirEntropy's life caught up with him/her and it never came into fruition, but there is a mod I recently discovered that happened to be its spiritual successor. I've taken a look into it and so far it's one of the most interesting mods I've seen (buoyancy physics, block/material properties, some semblance of sinking mechanics)... perhaps you and Bioxx can emulate this (although, the cloth physics is an entirely different thing, one that I don't know how it will function even).

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EDIT: Okay, I need to use a different computer next time because Google Chrome is so darn slow on this site, :(.

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