Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
Jag

Canoes

79 posts in this topic

This is good, but I think TFC is taking a big steps towards longer and longer terrain generation lately. With all this we might then be required to externally pregenerate a considerable chunks of our worlds in some sort of external software. Oh, and obviously, loading a chunk containing that much more data is an impact as well.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Such a feature would probably require a lot of time and testing, and I think we'd prefer to release 79 sooner rather than later :P

 

If, as I think makes sense, the log carved canoe is basically the existing glitchy, poorly maneuverable vanilla boat with a different crafting recipe and maybe a new skin, you wouldn't have to do much.  Dugouts date to the paleolithic, so a reasonable stopgap measure is to add a crafting recipe that doesn't require a saw.  I would propose this:

 

Posted Image

 

You can think of it as being analogous to carving wooden bowls out of a log - you're carving a dugout out of several meters of log.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If, as I think makes sense, the log carved canoe is basically the existing glitchy, poorly maneuverable vanilla boat with a different crafting recipe and maybe a new skin, you wouldn't have to do much.  Dugouts date to the paleolithic, so a reasonable stopgap measure is to add a crafting recipe that doesn't require a saw.  I would propose this:

 

Posted Image

 

You can think of it as being analogous to carving wooden bowls out of a log - you're carving a dugout out of several meters of log.

 

I'm pretty sure that Dunk was thinking something more along the lines of in-world construction. Where you place a few logs horizontally on the ground and then hack away at them with an axe to make the canoe.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that Dunk was thinking something more along the lines of in-world construction. Where you place a few logs horizontally on the ground and then hack away at them with an axe to make the canoe.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Additionally, as I mentioned above, we want the canoe to be able to have one OR two players in it at the same time, which is just one challenge that makes canoes more than just a reskin of the vanilla boat.

 

With all of the canoe's properties, I expect the most difficult challenges to overcome and test will be:

 

- Allowing multiple players to ride in the same canoe at the same time

- Change the animation for the paddle such that when players are sitting in a canoe, right click visibly paddles on the right side and left click visibly paddles on the left

- Allow canoes to properly beach themselves on the banks of water (this could be easy or difficult; I won't know until we try)

- Force canoes to render on the player's head when they carry them, portage-style (after more recent work with quivers, I now believe it's actually very easy to accomplish the rendering, but I still expect some challenges relating to slowing the player down and if I want to prevent the canoe from phasing through solid blocks)

 

The operation of the canoe will likely be smooth enough and versatile enough that it shouldn't be too difficult to do otherwise- I believe the vanilla boat is difficult to work with because the controls you have over it's movement are very limited. With the responsiveness of the breaking action that the canoe offers, it will be easy to quickly cut speed and change direction sharply, which is why I think vanilla boats are awful for river travel and why canoes will be ideal.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are using Small Boats right now on the New Melinia server as a stand-in for more realism to boats. The way I've implemented it is to require certain infrastructure before different boat types can be built, so I'd certainly like a native TFC implementation with similar considerations. The process for canoe crafting looks good, and the sail boat crafting bench as well. It could serve as a workshop/boat ramp (would be neat if it could be a multi-block structure and require the right raw materials, vs. having to build different parts for the boat. This could also be used to repair the boat if it had a damage rating of some sort. Small Boats has a fairly sizeable top tier boat, and for that one I've got the requirement of players building a dry dock to simulate the required construction. If TFC ever gets to larger ships, that would also be a very coll multi-block structure.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realy like the new atention on boats and water travel. The ideas proposed for canoes and sailboats are great. I just have two small ideas to add.

 

First, I think there should also be a 3rd boat, the kayak. It is similar to a smaller, 1 person canoe. Differences include that it is not solid wood, but rather a wooden frame that is covered by hide. The frame should be colapsible so the boat can be carried along with you as you travel and used as needed. The kayak can only carry one person however, rather than 2, coliding with objects can easily tear the hide and break the frame, making it harder to beach. The kayak is also somewhat slower, and should require a saw to make the more complicated frame.

 

Second, sailboats and any potential boats larger should have build in or optional water barrels for extra water storage on long voyages.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realy like the new atention on boats and water travel. The ideas proposed for canoes and sailboats are great. I just have two small ideas to add.

 

First, I think there should also be a 3rd boat, the kayak. It is similar to a smaller, 1 person canoe. Differences include that it is not solid wood, but rather a wooden frame that is covered by hide. The frame should be colapsible so the boat can be carried along with you as you travel and used as needed. The kayak can only carry one person however, rather than 2, coliding with objects can easily tear the hide and break the frame, making it harder to beach. The kayak is also somewhat slower, and should require a saw to make the more complicated frame.

 

Second, sailboats and any potential boats larger should have build in or optional water barrels for extra water storage on long voyages.

If you read some of my earlier posts, I do say that sail boats will have space to place either a chest or water barrel (or both) if players choose to, but they do leave less room for passengers

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love that this idea is taking off, and that it actually has the potential to be implemented into the mod. I just wanted to throw in a few ideas, for you to potentially get inspiration from while modelling the canoe. Popular to the Native American culture of my area(the Kootenays in BC, Canada) is the Sturgeon Nosed Canoe. This is a pretty interesting model if I do say so myself, and I think it could give some great insight as to how primitive canoes were built. I'm not going to go into details as to what the Wikipedia page above has to say about the building of the canoe, but it involves multiple species of trees such as Birch for the bark and outer shell of the canoe, Willow for the frame and Cedar roots used for twine. Speaking of which, I think Red Cedars should be something to consider adding as well? Hah.. totally off topic.. anyways, here's a few pics:

Posted Image

Posted Image

And below is the prehistoric(not extinct) animal that the canoe was named after, for obvious reasons.

Posted Image

Take what you want from this post, I just wanted to give you guys the information for inspiration!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I stated above, that style of canoe isn't the style we're replicating; the bark or skin stretched over a frame is a more advanced construction technique (and involves smaller and more intricate parts) than TFC is able to easily handle. Instead, I've chosen the dugout canoe (made from a single tree) as the basis for the boat.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many chest/barrel/person/animal slots would fit on the sailboat and canoe? Could I live in a boat?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many chest/barrel/person/animal slots would fit on the sailboat and canoe? Could I live in a boat?

it's a small boat, and if you didn't want to bring any friends, you could bring 1 chest and 1 barrel, or 2 barrels or a double chest

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i would say have canoes slower than vinilla boats

around walking or running speed

also maybe add a fatige bar for swimming that would increace as players level increaces

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is a toughie for you Dunk, but... perhaps we could consider the construction of larger ships? Galleons, and such? You would build a frame using wood planks and support beams, cover it in wood blocks making sure that any one block on the boat can path to any other one block, and then you would place down something like a helm that scans the construction and paths through all the blocks before turning the whole thing into an entity,Or, if you don't want to rip off the Airship mod ENTIRELY, you can have some of us design larger boats for you in TFC, and you can pick one (or more) to set as a dedicated multiblock structure that must be the same every time, and is also 'activated' by placing the helm block, just like any other multiblock structure.

 

...actually yeah, lets scrap the first idea and do that. I'd love to see a medium-sized trireme and a rather large takes-a-few-people-to-make galleon design, that have to be built in-world and then activated by placing a helm block. Preferably the galleon would take a few people to operate, too, encouraging teamwork. One person on the wheel, 2 people on the sails, etc...

 

Of course, the construction would all be clearly explained on a forum page, and left entirely unmentioned in-game - this would therefore simulate one person 'inventing' the ship (looking it up), and then teaching 'apprentices' how to build them as well. Sailing could just be one more profession on a server - large servers could have cargo galleons with dedicated trade routes - astronomy would become important for travel over open ocean, at least once you get rid of F3 cheatery - you could end up with a little East Minecraftia Trading Company

shit would be so cash.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is a toughie for you Dunk, but... perhaps we could consider the construction of larger ships? Galleons, and such? You would build a frame using wood planks and support beams, cover it in wood blocks making sure that any one block on the boat can path to any other one block, and then you would place down something like a helm that scans the construction and paths through all the blocks before turning the whole thing into an entity,Or, if you don't want to rip off the Airship mod ENTIRELY, you can have some of us design larger boats for you in TFC, and you can pick one (or more) to set as a dedicated multiblock structure that must be the same every time, and is also 'activated' by placing the helm block, just like any other multiblock structure.

 

...actually yeah, lets scrap the first idea and do that. I'd love to see a medium-sized trireme and a rather large takes-a-few-people-to-make galleon design, that have to be built in-world and then activated by placing a helm block. Preferably the galleon would take a few people to operate, too, encouraging teamwork. One person on the wheel, 2 people on the sails, etc...

 

Of course, the construction would all be clearly explained on a forum page, and left entirely unmentioned in-game - this would therefore simulate one person 'inventing' the ship (looking it up), and then teaching 'apprentices' how to build them as well. Sailing could just be one more profession on a server - large servers could have cargo galleons with dedicated trade routes - astronomy would become important for travel over open ocean, at least once you get rid of F3 cheatery - you could end up with a little East Minecraftia Trading Company

shit would be so cash.

Love this idea. I think the first step should be the requirement of building a  shipyard.

That could be emulated by the necessity of a specific block that would touch the ship but it would not be part of the ship upon activation.

Maybe some metal bracers that would sustain the ship out of the water, once the ship is build it would drop the ship into water.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you were going to have bigger ships, I definitely like the idea of it taking multiple people to operate, at a minimum someone at the wheel and an assistant to handle sails. You could even have a bilge deck at the bottom with the ship that gradually takes on water during, making the ship slower and more sluggish if not emptied. It could take on water faster in a storm, so that the players have to bucket brigade to prevent the bilge over-filling and potentially sinking the ship.

 

re: having them be a preset group of ships that must be replicated, less of a fan. Perhaps it could be a preset group of ship hulls, with the frame and mast and the outer hull and such, which must be build in the shipyard. Possibly even with some flexibility - a middle section that could be repeated 1-3 times between the bow and stern sections? But more importantly (to me) being, at launch, unfinished, so that there's flexibility in how decks and rooms are configured within that hull.

 

My main concern, if you call it that, is that the huge amount of work it would take to implement this would result in a ship that might end up being no more than a novelty in most worlds. Sure, even if it had no practical use, it's something people would build, and love - people build non-working ships all the time already, after all - but that doesn't necessarily justify making such a huge feature a priority in development.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I don't think The Ship  should be slower than a vanilla boat. it would make no sense.

Lets make the building of the ship as fancier as possible, but once we have the ship it needs to be piratical.

I think the main usage for a ship like that would be to transport animals.

Is the one thing you cannot carry in your inventory.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the main usage for a ship like that would be to transport animals.

Is the one thing you cannot carry in your inventory.

 

That is a GREAT idea, actually. The ability to keep animals on a ship will come in real handy the next time they try reimplementing Finite Water.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I am not so fond of the idea to build multi block ships like in the Ships Mod. And I also don't think that would even be possible to code with all the sailing mechanics discussed earlier in this thread.

I think Dunk was quite clear about his ideas.

Let's not bite off Dunk's whole hand, just because he has reached out his small finger ...

Nothing prevents you guys from using the Ships Mod in TFC ;)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two slots to transport two animals, Male and Female, like a slacker Noah who started the project then said "Screw this". Very desirable. While holding a roped animal, you could lash them onto the boat, at which point they would board, just like in real life. Further, you could lasso sea turtles while sailing, because what's life without whimsy?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further, you could lasso sea turtles while sailing, because what's life without whimsy?

no sea turtles

 

They'd be hard to model as they would have to operate on land and in the water. Water is really dark in minecraft, so you'd barely be able to see them anyway. They're endangered so I refuse to support eating/killing them in a game.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's a small boat, and if you didn't want to bring any friends, you could bring 1 chest and 1 barrel, or 2 barrels or a double chest

going back to this. Is there a plan to remove the ability to take full barrels in your inventory. I see no use for this feature unless that was the case. taking mobs instead of barrels seems like the practical option to me

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

going back to this. Is there a plan to remove the ability to take full barrels in your inventory. I see no use for this feature unless that was the case. taking mobs instead of barrels seems like the practical option to me

 

https://github.com/Deadrik/TFCraft/commit/ee659a376a681758d23b661c5e48c4d295615e22

 

"Updated barrel to require being equipped and carried on the player's back if it contains items/liquids. If the player is overburdened, a warning will appear on screen."

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

going back to this. Is there a plan to remove the ability to take full barrels in your inventory. I see no use for this feature unless that was the case. taking mobs instead of barrels seems like the practical option to me

Barrels in the inventory can't be accessed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barrels in the inventory can't be accessed.

But still, while on the ocean you'd just have to place it on the smallest island or build a thatch tower on the ocean floor if you desperately need to drink on the way :D
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites