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Kacey

About Armor & Damages (Sorry if this has been posted before)

10 posts in this topic

I haven't browsed the forums to see if this exists, I just happened to do some testing to find this out on my own.

 

Here's the results of testing damage taken from mobs:

http://kacey.0x.no/damages.txt

This link is a HUGE spoiler.. don't click it if you don't want a "cheat" of information.

 

It appears armor has a huge flaw within it.

 

This does appear to be quite a bug within the game.

 

Just posting this for discussion if anyone else is willing to take the time to help test the accuracy and extent of this issue.

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"Each test is repeated to verify a constant number." Exactly how many times did you repeat the test? From what I know, the way that damage is currently calculated is that each attack has a chance to randomly hit one body section (Head, Chest, Legs, Feet). If the section attacked is armored, the the damage is decreased versus if that section is unarmored. If you only did a few repeats, it's possible that the area hit lined up with what you were testing, especially since you were running a biased test of only checking full armor, chest, or nothing, and not including only legs, or only feet, or only head.

 

After double checking the code, the chest does indeed have the highest chance of being the section of the body that is hit, which makes sense since it's technically the area someone in theory would aim for, as well as it being a very large, central section. After the chest, you are more likely to get hit in the legs section, and finally the head and feet are equally the least likely to be hit.

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Each test was repeated between 3 and 5 times. You're welcome to actually test this as code and results can, at times, not match up in testing. Possibly the RNG is broken and frequently comes up with the same value, which causes the chest piece to be most frequent.

 

That's why I asked for discussion on it and further testing. I don't doubt this to be unintended, but the results are there. My armor sets are further proof. The chest piece gets obliterated. My tests show the chest accounts for virtually all defense from attacks taken. Please test in-game to confirm the code is working or not working as intended, because my results show that the chest plate is the only thing worth using.

 

This is three sets of armor. I see one similarity between them all.

http://i.imgur.com/tYlQszT.png

The chest piece is near broken on all of them.

 

I am playing on the Happy Diggers TFC Server. You're welcome to hop on and I can provide you with a quick set of armor that you can test yourself.

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3 to 5 is hardly a proper sample size for testing.

 

Let me rephrase the second part of my previous post. The RNG determining where you take damage is weighted. More than half the time you are going to take damage to the chest (this is on purpose and the proper behavior). TFC does not use the vanilla system of "armor points" which stack as you add more armor. If you take a hit to the chest, the only thing that matters is if you are wearing a chestplate. If you take a hit to the head, it doesn't matter if you are wearing a chestplate or not, the only thing that matters then is if you are wearing a helm.

 

So the issue of "only the chestplate matters globally" is incorrect. The majority of the time, the chestplate is what will determine how much damage you take, but there is still a decent percentage of the time where the chestplate has nothing to do with the calculation, and if you don't have the rest of your body properly armored, you will take the full damage amount. The fact that your other pieces of armor are damaged prove that the RNG is working properly and is indeed dealing damages to body sections other than your chest, but that the chest still has the highest chance of taking the hit.

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Well, based on the results I had between the sampling I took and also the armor durability in the screenshots, the weighted RNG is very weighted onto the chestpiece, and enough-so that other armor slots hold trivial value to protect and the durability vs damage taken is unbalanced.

 

Name : Durability : Durability % : Durability Lost

Head: 1798/2500 : 71.92% : 702

Chest: 459/3750 : 12.24% : 3291

Leggins: 1898/3000 : 63.27% : 1102

Boots:  2018/2500 : 80.72% : 482

 

*These values are taken from leather armor that was at full durability to begin with. No flaws from anvil are factored to skew these numbers.

 

Out of 5577 durability lost in total that results in this:

Head:  12.59%

Chest:  59.01%

Leggins:  19.76%

Boots: 8.64%

 

Nearly 60% of the hits go to the chest, making it take 3x more durability hits than the leggins.

So in a more ideal protective set, I'd make a high quality chest, and whatever for the other spots as they're very infrequent to be hit.

 

The problem I'm seeing is that the chest piece gets obliterated extremely quickly in comparison to the other armor pieces, making it rather unbalanced to the other armor.

 

By those given percentages, someone will go through about 6 chest pieces in the time they go through one pair of boots.

 

Now, let's disassemble the armor into the resources to craft, by ingots, and see how much durability value is provided per ingot:

Head: 4 ingots, 2500 durability : 625 durability per ingot

Chest: 8 ingots, 3750 durability : 468.75 durability per ingot

Legs: 6 ingots, 3000 durability : 500 durability per ingot

Boots: 4 ingots, 2500 durability : 625 durability per ingot

 

*It should be noted that all armor gives the same durability values, whether leather, copper, or steel, it's all the above values (with exception of leather obviously not made from ingots).

The chest, taking the most amounts of hits is provided the lowest amount of durability per ingot spent.

 

 

My only opinions I have on this are as follows:

I think this is highly unbalanced and should have durability per ingot even between all pieces to help reduce the rate of destruction to the chest piece, keeping it better scaled to the other pieces. I don't think the most valuable to protect area should be made so poorly in proprotion to a less valuable to protect area.

 

I've personally always found the armor in TFC to be a waste of resources, as earlier versions didn't give armor enough durability and things broke quickly, and now, the balancing causes the chest piece to break about as quickly as all pieces used to break back in earlier versions (arround version 56 if I recall correctly).

 

This mod is in beta. I'm simply providing feedback, I'm only providing statistical data I have collected so far. I'm only one person and have only been experimenting with this and checking things out today.

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Your data regarding the durability matches the RNG almost perfectly.

 

Head 10%

Chest 60%

Legs 20%

Feet 10%

 

It should also be noted that this RNG is only for damage dealt by players, mobs, or arrows. The ratio of 6 chest pieces to one pair of boots is offset by any fall damage that the player might take, which will always damage only the boots.

 

Considering that you are taking the majority of the blows to the chest, it makes perfect sense that the armor in that area will be broken much faster. The chestplate also takes a lot more processing of the ingots in order to make since it requires two double sheets, so it can be assumed that all this extra working and welding decreases the integrity of the ingots, therefore reducing the durability per ingot. I could perhaps maybe see increasing the durability to 4,000 so that the ratio is the same as leggings, but I personally see the armor as pretty much well balanced already. Just because you've made some armor doesn't mean you are invincible. Especially the main piece you utilize needs to break within a reasonably short period of time to balance out just how many blows you are actually taking. Armor is precious protection, but the player still needs to be skilled and careful to either avoid as much combat as possible, or reduce the number of hits they suffer when forced into combat. You put in the time, effort and resources for the armor so that you will survive longer than in the exact same situation without it, not so that you can Leeroy Jenkins at every mob you see without worrying about putting any skill into the combat and simply wildly swinging a sword blindly. 

 

If anything, a repair mechanic would be added to balance out the damage, so that you don't have to make an entire new plate every time (although the vanilla 10% repair boost still exists when crafting together two damaged items).

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You put in the time, effort and resources for the armor so that you will survive longer than in the exact same situation without it, not so that you can Leeroy Jenkins at every mob you see without worrying about putting any skill into the combat and simply wildly swinging a sword blindly.

 

In a single player world or local host/network game, I can greatly agree with this, however on a 200ms latency connection to a server, it is close to impossible to not get hit while dealing with combat, since monster spawning tends to simulate the game Left 4 Dead (swarms of zombies coming at you from all sorts of directions). So for my situation, armor is not that great since I do not have means to avoid being hit, since that just means I'm going to spend more time building armor than I will just regenerating health or running and hiding. Archery is somewhat also out of the question as latency makes mobs terribly hard to hit, and skeletons are just suicide to try to kill. Typically one skeleton will take out 40-70% of my HP (assuming level zero) before I kill him while in leather armor. So my view is a bit different perspective from the "as intended" view.

 

I would assume the head would be a vital spot to be hit more commonly than the legs. It makes sense for baby zombies to hit your legs often, obviously due to size, but I'd see the zombies making more shots in the order of torso, head, legs, feet. Zombies are more dumb, but in traditional comat, the head is a very vital spot to go for. War hammers and maces were intended to hit for the head armor most frequently in order to stun and daze the opponent, or even give them a concussion. The skeletons (both types) make sense to hit most frequently in chest and legs, but I think it'd be more of a 50/30/12.5/7.5 to be perhaps a bit better accurate than what it presently is. As an archer, I think that if I were up against an opponent that I know isn't going down within a couple shots, I'd go for the legs to cripple them to give me the advantage of avoiding them or giving more time for getting them taken out before reaching me. The spiders are for sure chest pouncers, and most the damage I ever take from them is fall damage from the knockback. I don't know the game code for how the combat works, so I don't know if it could be possible to define hit patterns by entity, but that could perhaps help the issue as well. I know since there is the different damage types, it may be possible to use that codework as a basis for defining which piece takes a hit most often, by damage type. That's just an idea though.

 

It's just that from my end where if I have to fight a monster, I'm going to get hit, my most 'expensive' armor is going to get thrashed, and it gets destroyed unpropotionally quicker than the other pieces and gives the least value to cost ratio as it breaks so significantly quicker.

 

However, if I only craft that one piece, and then use leather for the rest (with is rather cheap and quite renewable, as pig breeding provides quick access to hides), I will be best protected for a large portion of the hits, allowing me to make more sets of that armor piece as well.

 

Perhaps another improvement would be an increase in durability by even a small amount by metal types. I can only imagine that steel armor would take more hits and be more durable than copper.

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I would like to just add something I have noticed. I had a privet server on the .10 build. On that server only legs were getting the brunt of the damage for all three players that were on that server.

Now on the public server, were I spend most of my time which happens to be the same as Kacey's and is the .22 build, the chest piece gets the brunt of the damage. I was under the assumption that, "hit locality" , varied from seed to seed like food recipes. Did you guys tweek the damage distribution from .10 to .22. because it seems to be seed based on were mobs hit you otherwise.

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Perhaps another improvement would be an increase in durability by even a small amount by metal types. I can only imagine that steel armor would take more hits and be more durable than copper.

 

The reason that the durability is the same across all armors is to keep the "numbers secrecy" that is common throughout the mod in regards to tools, weapons, armors and forging. What is actually different between the armor is how much damage each blow does. So a slashing attack might take away 5 durability of leather armor, but only 1 durability of steel (Completely made up numbers).

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If chestplate is indeed the thing that gets hit the most, this should be counterweighted by its increased durability compared to leggins, etc. Because it being also the most expensive of the four, this doesn't really seem fair, both from gameplay and believability standpoints (the latter comes from the fact that it is usually the most robust of all and has the smallest amount of moving parts).

 

I'm not going to discuss the actual numbers, since I don't have any.

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