Traps

[transcengopher 349]

If wild animals bred by themselves, then when hunting, as long as we leave a few behind, they'll breed and we'll get more animals over time, but overhunting the area can lead to all the animals dying and none ever coming back unless you get animals from another place and put them there, so you'll have to plan ahead in hunting and trapping the animals

This is Minecraft. Nothing happens in the world when you're not around, remember? So for wild animals to breed in the forest, you'd have to be in the forest too, holding a candle for them.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to have them ocasionally spawn. What is unreasonable - is to think that one man is able to make the whole population of rabbits extinct in one particular forest. What would most likely happen instead is they will try to avoid you and your forest paths as much as they can.

 

I was suggesting at one point that we'd have them spawn in the wild occasionally when chunk is loaded, while keeping an eye on how much is already there (to not overspawn the things, you know), and at the same time tying their spawn probability to the number of times you was around that place (i.e. spawn protection value, maybe also some value that tracks how much killing you've done around those parts). Unfortunately, this gone unnoticed, it seems. Or this forums is having very low attention span these days.

As a side feature of animals spawning we can have zombies and skeletons killing them (and your cattle, life's tough, you know) as well, since they wouldn't make everything extinct this way. That'd bring a bit more life to the world, and we can then transplant this hunting behaviour to actual predatorial animals, whenever in next millenia they make an appearance.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

What if animals would spawn again and again but each time it would be calculated how many animal of that species there are in a certain radius. So not to overpopulate.

Also the system would only slowly repopulate so if you overkill any kind of animal they would be rarer to find and it would take a long time for the population to grow back.

Sorry for the long sentences in a hurry. 

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

If I'm not wrong, I think the deer use the vanilla 'ocelot running away' code, which is the running in circles... Maybe the Devs could try the 'villager run from zombie' code, instead. It might give a better feel, and/or better gameplay.

They did initially, but it's since been changed with custom AI to attempt to better move away from the problem.

 

However, mobs have a hardcoded pathing algorithm. I've thus far been unable to decouple them from it or switch them over to something else, which means all i can do is tell them to "walk towards this location". How they actually do that is determined by the vanilla code, which can lead to circles and issues when they get stuck.

 

 

As for animal breeding, that is planned, if it can be properly balanced. I'd have to do more tests and crunch some numbers though. It's one of the challenges players will have when attempting to selectively breed animals: the animals may not necessarily agree.

 

 

Unlike vanilla, TFC is quite alright with events happening while the player hasn't loaded a chunk. All we need to know is how long the chunks been unloaded and we can do a few quick calculations to determine what's happened in that time. If an animal has on average a 5% of mating on a given day and you leave for 4 days, it'll just do a little math to check if it got pregnant, and on which day and act like it happened while you were gone (ie it might be a day or two into the pregnancy when the chunk loads)

 

Ideally, wild animal breeding would be such that the animal populations would remain stable amongst wolves picking off a few and players taking the odd meaty meal. Over reliance on animals will certainly lead to population declines and the larger ones can't be easy to kill.

 

 

As for small game, their populations are far too large to actually have an individual entity for each one. Instead, it's easier to have the number of game animals in a chunk stored separately. We can have "instances" of these animals appear from time to time; maybe you see a rabbit dart behind a tree, but you won't be able to catch it, and as soon as it's out of your field of view, it will despawn. The likelihood of a game animal appearing would be relative to the number of them in the area. If there were traps, you'd set one up and leave. While you're gone, it'll just do some random checks to see if you catch anything.

 

In the end, the game feels like it has rabbits in it: you can see them (albeit briefly). You can catch them and eat them, but behind the scenes it's a much lighter load on the game.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

Off topic.

One of the things I like most about Terrafirmacraft is How involved the developers are in the forums.

I have played some other mods and they gave me the impression that the moders would not care what we the players think.

Thank you Dunk and Bioxx. For not just creating a mod but a community.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

Off topic.

One of the things I like most about Terrafirmacraft is How involved the developers are in the forums.

I have played some other mods and they gave me the impression that the moders would not care what we the players think.

Thank you Dunk and Bioxx. For not just creating a mod but a community.

I agree completly and I think traps for small animal may be indeed better like "not actual mobs, like fish, but a calculated population of spieces in the code like per biome of such", but as it is hinted that more larger animals are to come in TFC a "bunch o fjavelins placed facing upwards" with a covering up option like this in my suggestion in another thread:

 

 

Main suggestion:

 

Harvesting tall grass with a knife or a scythe would give you grass (not placable vanilla grass of course) which you can place down like a 1/8 slab, in a similar style to straw placing in a pit kiln. This grass would dry in time and turn yellow but this woudn't affecting building with it. These would be like ghost blocks, so you can go through them unless it reached 1 full block. If you stack them up up to 2 blocks, at soon as it reaches this height, it (the second block) falls over randomly like dirt would.

 

So in order to build In order to make a wall with that, you'd need to support it with sticks on the side, which would be placable like planks

To make a roof, you'd need to support the straw from underneath.

 

Sticks are weak materials, and get break under heavier blocks like dirt, sand, gravel, or any block that can fall exept grass/staw.

They can also be breaken by mobs if collided with them, but it would also break under them (or players) making it ideal for traps (covered by grass) Water could also wash it away.

 

[LordOfWolves 514]

 We can have "instances" of these animals appear from time to time; maybe you see a rabbit dart behind a tree, but you won't be able to catch it, and as soon as it's out of your field of view, it will despawn.

This is a cool idea. Also I think we should have a way to approximately know how many rabbits are in that area. This could be guessed by the number of rabbit darts you see, or even by inspecting their footsteps.

 

The footsteps should work this way: it acts like an overlay that spawns in the top of a  block of grass and it would stay there until the number of rabbits is too low, then it would despawn, of course while that chunk is unloaded, so the number of footsteps on a certain area would match the rabbit population. I mean, not exactly match it, like 3 footstep blocks means 3 rabbits, but like 3 footstep blocks means that rabbits are quite common in that area, 2 means they're not common, 1 means rare, 0 means ther aren't rabbits and maybe 4 could mean there are lots of them.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

As for small game, their populations are far too large to actually have an individual entity for each one. Instead, it's easier to have the number of game animals in a chunk stored separately. We can have "instances" of these animals appear from time to time; maybe you see a rabbit dart behind a tree, but you won't be able to catch it, and as soon as it's out of your field of view, it will despawn. The likelihood of a game animal appearing would be relative to the number of them in the area. If there were traps, you'd set one up and leave. While you're gone, it'll just do some random checks to see if you catch anything.

 

In the end, the game feels like it has rabbits in it: you can see them (albeit briefly). You can catch them and eat them, but behind the scenes it's a much lighter load on the game.

 

What if we had one small animal to represent  a group? Lets say we have 35 rabbits in a certain area. we would have 3 visible rabbits (1 for each 10) If you kill one after some time the game checks to see how many rabbits it has on the area and adds another visible rabbit. If you get bellow 10 there is no visible rabbits and it would take a long time to repopulate the area. ( since we  talking rabbits long time may be a year).

I think it would be cool to hunt for rabbits.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

 

As for small game, their populations are far too large to actually have an individual entity for each one. Instead, it's easier to have the number of game animals in a chunk stored separately. We can have "instances" of these animals appear from time to time; maybe you see a rabbit dart behind a tree, but you won't be able to catch it, and as soon as it's out of your field of view, it will despawn. The likelihood of a game animal appearing would be relative to the number of them in the area. If there were traps, you'd set one up and leave. While you're gone, it'll just do some random checks to see if you catch anything.

 

In the end, the game feels like it has rabbits in it: you can see them (albeit briefly). You can catch them and eat them, but behind the scenes it's a much lighter load on the game.

What if we had one small animal to represent  a group? Lets say we have 35 rabbits in a certain area. we would have 3 visible rabbits (1 for each 10) If you kill one after some time the game checks to see how many rabbits it has on the area and adds another visible rabbit. If you get bellow 10 there is no visible rabbits and it would take a long time to repopulate the area. ( since we  talking rabbits long time may be a year).

I think it would be cool to hunt for rabbits.

So you would have actual rabbit mobs running around and you CAN interact with them (kill them) and they respawn if the population allows it... but doesn't that make traps pointless, which is the original topic?

[TonyLiberatto 364]

You could say so. But you only see one rabbit for every 10 in a area,  they are fast and hard to spot, that's the reason why man created traps in the first place.

All I am saying is if you happen to see a rabbit you can try to sneak and kill it for some food.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

You could say so. But you only see one rabbit for every 10 in a area,  they are fast and hard to spot, that's the reason why man created traps in the first place.

All I am saying is if you happen to see a rabbit you can try to sneak and kill it for some food.

so traps wouldn't actually trap the mobs just get the dead rabbits loot in x time so the invisible population decreeses of you actally trap the mob?

[LordOfWolves 514]

 

You could say so. But you only see one rabbit for every 10 in a area,  they are fast and hard to spot, that's the reason why man created traps in the first place.

All I am saying is if you happen to see a rabbit you can try to sneak and kill it for some food.

They have big ears, they hear everything, it's highly umprobable that you can manage to sneak behind a rabbit without it noticing you.

 

Anyway to reconnect to what I suggested before:

 

There should be a new progress bar along with the smithing, cooking and farming, the "Hunting bar".

As its level increases, you get some advantages that I'll explain later.

 

First of all, traps need a bait. No rabbit runs to its death without a good reason, apart some rabbits, some are really mad. The bait should be something like a carrot, or another vegetable, if carrots aren't available. Different vegetables have a different chance to attract a rabbit, onions being the lowest, because, you know, stupid onions... (jk)

 

And who says that everytime a rabbit eats the bait, automatically the trap triggers? This could even not happen. The first traps you'll create will be poorly crafted, you're just beginning to learn how to hunt, you can't pretend to make the best of the traps.

 

Another thing, due to the poorly crafted trap, it could even have a chance to break, so you should craft another trap to replace the old one.

 

Anyway now I'll explain you more about the hunting ability. As it increases, the chances that your traps will attract rabbits increase, the chances that they break decreases because you learn better ways to craft that trap. Also you could even know how to cheaply use the bait. And it will happen less often that a rabbit will eat the bait without triggering the trap. 

But these chances should reduce of just a little, to not make traps OP.

Also as you become more able at hunting, you should get always more detailed informations about the population of a zone when you inspect a footprint. Like, the first time you won't be able to inspect it. If there will be more little animal types, you won't even know what animal left that footprint. When you'll improve, you'll be able to identify that animal. Then as you improve even more, you'll know a really approximate amount of little animals in that zone, such as "This area is populated by a small number of rabbits". And then, when you'll be a good hunter, you'll be given a range of numbers, like "This area is populated by about 15-20 rabbits".

 

That's my idea, nothing else for now I think.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

so traps wouldn't actually trap the mobs just get the dead rabbits loot in x time so the invisible population decreeses of you actally trap the mob?

Yes that's exactly what i mean.

To keep a balance we should have a natural population growth so it would slowly repopulate, but if you overkill the population would go so low that it would take years to regrow.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

 

 

They have big ears, they hear everything, it's highly umprobable that you can manage to sneak behind a rabbit without it noticing you.

 

Anyway to reconnect to what I suggested before:

 

There should be a new progress bar along with the smithing, cooking and farming, the "Hunting bar".

As its level increases, you get some advantages that I'll explain later.

 

First of all, traps need a bait. No rabbit runs to its death without a good reason, apart some rabbits, some are really mad. The bait should be something like a carrot, or another vegetable, if carrots aren't available. Different vegetables have a different chance to attract a rabbit, onions being the lowest, because, you know, stupid onions... (jk)

 

And who says that everytime a rabbit eats the bait, automatically the trap triggers? This could even not happen. The first traps you'll create will be poorly crafted, you're just beginning to learn how to hunt, you can't pretend to make the best of the traps.

 

Another thing, due to the poorly crafted trap, it could even have a chance to break, so you should craft another trap to replace the old one.

 

Anyway now I'll explain you more about the hunting ability. As it increases, the chances that your traps will attract rabbits increase, the chances that they break decreases because you learn better ways to craft that trap. Also you could even know how to cheaply use the bait. And it will happen less often that a rabbit will eat the bait without triggering the trap. 

But these chances should reduce of just a little, to not make traps OP.

Also as you become more able at hunting, you should get always more detailed informations about the population of a zone when you inspect a footprint. Like, the first time you won't be able to inspect it. If there will be more little animal types, you won't even know what animal left that footprint. When you'll improve, you'll be able to identify that animal. Then as you improve even more, you'll know a really approximate amount of little animals in that zone, such as "This area is populated by a small number of rabbits". And then, when you'll be a good hunter, you'll be given a range of numbers, like "This area is populated by about 15-20 rabbits".

 

That's my idea, nothing else for now I think.

 

I like that, maybe when you see the tracks you can right click on then and read the information. The higher your hunting skill the more information you have.

[AllenWL 186]

I don't know about knowing the population of rabbits by reading footprints.

I think footprints should just let you know what animals was there/is here, and how big it is.

 

You can tell guess the population by the amount of footprints you find.

 

Also, rather than right-clicking footprints, I would really love if all footprints had different shapes/sizes depending on type/size of animals.

For tracks if 'invisible' animals like rabbits, the size of the prints should tell the average size of rabbits in the area.

 

I'd also like it if footprints randomly generated when

1:the chunk generates for the first time

2:when an entity is walking

3:at a certain time of year/month(like wild crops)

 

Footprints should disappear after a while.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

Footprints should disappear after a while.

 

Sould dissapear after rain too, shouldn't it?

[LordOfWolves 514]

2:when an entity is walking

That would require more calculus. Yeah it would be nice, but when you'll have your great meat factory, are you sure that you want this to be calculated for every single cow or pig you possess?

 

 

1:the chunk generates for the first time

If there are animals in that area, footprints will generate, even if that's a new chunk. There's no need to generate them without animals. 

 

 

3:at a certain time of year/month(like wild crops)

Well, that's a good idea. Rabbits or other animals don't go outside running all the year, and this could be good so that you must pay attention to when you should use traps and take advantage of that time as best as you can.

 

 

I think footprints should just let you know what animals was there/is here, and how big it is.

Yeah, I didn't think about this, you could actually know the size of the animal too. Of course you could be wrong the first times you inspect a footprint. You'll learn. Anyway yeah maybe we shouldn't be able to get a range of numbers, but anyway you could understand if there are many animals there. The footprints could even visually change as you get better, so that you can see more footprints in a footprint block, this way you know there are many animals there.

 

 

I like that, maybe when you see the tracks you can right click on then and read the information. The higher your hunting skill the more information you have.

Exactly what I mean, anyway maybe we shouldn't get a range of numbers, that's too detailed and no hunter can guess so well. Anyway we could be wrong the first times we inspect footprints, and as we level up, we are always less wrong and more right.

 

 

Footprints should disappear after a while.

Sould dissapear after rain too, shouldn't it?

 

Yes, like CtrlXCtrlV stated, they should disappear in some occasions like during rain, or maybe after some time has passed, like a few days. This way when you'll see a footprint you'll think twice before leaving it here. Either you explore that area or you lose the chance to hunt some animals. And if you start hunting, you better pray it doesn't start raining, or the footprints will be inspectable for a very short time, then they won't be inspectable anymore and after a while they'll disappear.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

Okay, I really like how this idea is coming along. But how will footsteps look like? I mean a rabbits footstep is no more than 4 pixels at the most. and you cant make really special ones for cows and deer either. or will you need to rightclick somehow, maybe like ore prospecting? Should this this have a skill? What do you think? Or shold footstems be entities and by this can you make a non pixelly texture for them?

[LordOfWolves 514]

It would be cool if they worked the same way loose rocks work. On fancy graphics, those items are placed in the ground and have very small pixels. Also they're placed ramdomly in the block, not always in the same position. If there was a way to do this with footprints too, it would be great. Randomly placed footprints, even more than 1 in some blocks, like if there were 2 or 3 loose rocks in the same block, I hope I gave you the idea of how I imagine this.

[AllenWL 186]

I'd like it if when you right-click a 'footprint', it gives you a 'zoomed' picture of the footprint so you can see the size and shape and all that.

 

The more footprints you find, the more animals there will be

[LordOfWolves 514]

Do you mean kind of like the knapping GUI? It shows you a GUI with the footprint and different clickable parts that you can inspect to know more? That should be awesome I think.

[CtrlXCtrlV 50]

Do you mean kind of like the knapping GUI? It shows you a GUI with the footprint and different clickable parts that you can inspect to know more? That should be awesome I think.

 

 

Yeah just like that but no zooming, i think it wood be good, that most footprint miss one side, part, or even some wrong spots are dented in so you don't know what animals footprint you are looking at first so you might need to just guess and find more

[LordOfWolves 514]

Yes, missing parts would be nice too. Animals aren't always calm when leaving a footprint, maybe this animal in particular was running from something or someone, and it left a loong and deformed footprint, because it was running and the terrain was wet and all that stuff. Yeah it would be pretty awesome. Anyway there shouldn't be zooming, but some clickable parts that make hints appear in the chatbar, like "This seems a footprint of a small animal" or "Judging by the lenght of the claws, this could be a predator, not a prey" and other similar hints. It would become pretty cool, maybe you become too involved in studying the footprints, but I think this is still kinda basic, not too detailed, it could actually work.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

I agree that having dozens of different footprints for all the different animals would look very nice.

But I think in the end we have to consider how easy that would be to be implemented. That's the reason why I suggested having one footprint texture and using the right click to read the information on it.

I rather have that than not having anything. So whatever makes more sense for the Devs.