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bluev1121

Alchemy/Chemistry- more than just metals.

11 posts in this topic

Metal seems to be the primary focus of technology in this mod, figured I would suggest a few ideas to allow for more of a technology... web instead of a tree.

 

Herbalism - Basically plants that can be used in medicine, or to perform different functions. The most basic level of chemistry. Hunter Gatherers will perform this most often. Basically a specific plant will provide a basic "potion style" effect for a very short duration.

 

Distillation - Separating materials based on boiling / Sublimation points

Centrifugal Purification - Separating and purifying materials based on weight and density

Chemical Reactor - Used to mix chemicals in certain ways and under certain conditions to produce other chemicals, materials, or reactions.

Refrigeration and Cryogenics - The use of latent heat of vaporization of low boiling point gases to remove heat from a system. Using chemistry you can actually make a steam powered Refrigerator.

Nuclear Reactor - Just figured I would throw this in there.

Things chemistry can be used for :

 

Medicine - Heal yourself or produce Potion style effects

Purifying water for survival purposes

Purifying water for a steam cycle - Sea Water contains harmful salts which will concentrate in the boiler (Much as would happen in a Distillation system, the salt doesn't evaporate, but you keep adding salt water) which will both foul the heat transfer surfaces and ruin your heat cycle, and cause quick corrosion (Due to the high temperature from boilers speeding up corrosion reactions) and inevitable steam rupture (explosions and death after a non standard period of time) Several chemicals can be added to water to prevent buildup of oxygen (ammonia, hydrogen, Morphiline, any number of chemicals really), which also causes corrosion.

Advanced Material Sciences - Ways to obtain more perfect alloys for specific purposes. Materials with certain  Physical, Chemical, Magnetic, or (in the case of nuclear Reactors) Nuclear Characteristics.

A dynamic system that would reward experimentation would be a plus.

Metal-Acid batteries - Future Electrical Expansion

Making of Plastics and Rubbers - Can be a substitute for some materials

Making of advanced Fertilizers

Storing Food more effectively

 

In summary, there are a ton of reasons why chemistry can be considered as necessary for any technological advancement beyond the stone age, and I hope atleast some of these ideas make it into the game.

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I do agree with web of technologies. I would love to see other technologies than metalworking.

 

But if we are talking about alchemy and chemistry, you should stay in pre-steam-age time. Most of the things you mention are mainly modern technology and don't thematically fit in TFC. You could look at ExtraFirma addon. The author is working on some basic alchemical stuff.

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I also like a good chemistry system.

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Distillation was performed by the Egyptians, its one of the earliest forms of chemistry. Also Dunk has made it abundantly clear he plans on moving into Steam Age territory and believe it or not, the Refrigeration cycle was invented in the 1700s. Chemical Reactors is a very broad term for a whole slew of devices, and the crucible that we have now is an excellent example of one. They can be as simple as a tank, and as complex as a long glass tube surrounded by blacklights with computer controlled Thermocouples.

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I had the same feeling that you have. TFC is too metallurgy focused. So I put a somewhat big post about it.

If I remember correctly, I believe they wanted to finish up the metalworking first, but do have a plan for alchemy and more.

 

The exact words where 'TFC is still waaay WIP. like, we haven't even hit a 1.0 build yet. so the reason that there isn't really anything fleshed out in any other area of this mod, is because we just haven't gotten to it yet. the dev's are making sure that the mining and metallurgey portions of this mod are complete and exactly the way they want them before moving onto other things. Eventually this mod will have fully drawn out portions in other areas such as foresrty, farming, survival ect. ya just gotta remember that this mod is still nowhere even close to being complete.'

and

'At it's core, TFC involves a lot of metallurgy. It may not be what we want the mod to focus on as an end-product, but it's what we have. It's the most fleshed-out and solid system we have at the moment, and acts as an anchor for other features. It's by no means complete, per se. As we strengthen it and fill it out, it can support other features of the game that we'd like to implement, building off the systems and tools we develop while implementing it. It just isn't solid enough at this point in time to really build a game off of.

 

That said, we're aware that TFC can be very linear as it is, and fleshing out other features will help make the game more enjoyable, and we're working towards a state of the game in which we can focus our attentions on those aspects.'
 
But I think electricity, nuclear reactors, plastic kinda feels off with TFC.
 
Anyways, here's all my ideas about alchemy/brewing/chemistry
 
There should also be herbs. Herbs would be used for brewing teas and potions, making salves and poisons.
herbs should be hard to find and harder to grow, discouraging mass production. Herbs would grow slowly, and making potions and such would be tricky to get right, but could be a huge asset if done right. You can grind herbs to make salves to heal, or dry them and mix them to make tea, or brew the herbs, extract poison, and more. Each herb should have different effects(sometimes more than one) that can be mixed, reduced, boosted, to make better brews. The effects of herbs should not be shown, so each player has to experiment to find out what they do.
1. tea. The basics of herbalism, and the easiest to make, small subtle effects, like making thirst/hunger drain slower, making you more 'awake'(work faster, mayhaps?), etc.
2. Potions. A stronger mix of herbs, and harder to make. Both harmful and helpful effects can be made. (Note: not heaing, but stuff like speed. strength, etc)
3. Salves. The strongest healing mix a herbalist can make, it is extremely difficult to make, but can heal most minor wounds and can help speed recovery.
4. Poisons. The strongest harming mix a herbalist can make. It takes lots of resources to make, and is extremely tricky to get right. Can be applied to darts
 
Salves and poisons will be stored in bottles untill it it time to use them, then applied to bandages/weapons/etc. A unbotteled salve/poison will quickly lose it's potency, and poisons should not be able to take enough hearts to kill, unless it takes lots of time and resources(like, over 5 hours to grow/prepare resources, and another 30~60 min to make it) to make, and even then will only yeald a small amount. Each and every processes of preparing/growing herbs and making tea/potions/salve/poison will have to be closely monitored and carefully controlled or else it can be wasted, or have consequences(like blowing up, which will not be too bad(provided you have like, tons of stuff) if you where making a helpful thing, if you where making, say a poison and it blew up. Then you'd die).
Processing and making salve/potions/etc will take lots of water, herbs, time, fuel, and also take lots of equipment(easily made from base metals, glass, and clay, but unless you are a miner, not that easy[but not that hard either])
 
This is just a rough idea, though
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these do seem outside terrrafirma's time frame, though some basic chemical stuff for potion effects would be cool, though they are kind of taken by alcohol.

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TFCraft is based in rather early times to already have nuclear reactors. It took humans so long to get that kind of stuff, and even now it's not even perfected. Many of these suggestions appear way outside of TFC's time frame. I'm certain some people would love to spend several dozen hours straight trying to get all the materials and other things required to make a nuclear reactor and use is for some weird thing, like power. Some of this post is fine (super basic medicine), some of it isn't (Nuke reactors..

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I think the alchemy/chemistry for TFC should be mainly potion brewing, making tonics and poisons, etc.

Stuff like plastic, refrigerators batteries, etc, seem a bit too modern

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As far as I know, TFC is modelled on technology from no later than the 15th and 16th centuries. Modern technology is not going to happen, ever, unless the devs completeley reverse their stance on it.

 

Stuff like herbal medicine, on the other hand, would be a good idea.

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So, I've been thinking a lot about how chemistry could work in TFC.  This seemed like the most detailed topic I could find on the subject, so I'm posting here to be in line with the rule of one topic per suggestion.  But I wanted to ask, has there been any behind the scenes discussion on the topic of chemistry?  I don't want to make a giant post and then be told "ya, we already decided not to do chemistry" or "there's already another chemistry mod, we're more likely to just be compatible with that". I know the focus is TFC 2/1.8, but I'd still like to add to this discussion if it's not already had a fork put in it by the devs.

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The herbs are definitely a good idea in my opinion, keep it up!

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