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blue_photon

Armor... overhaul?

12 posts in this topic

So I'm sitting here, playing a little bit of Dwarf Fortress...

Then this wild idea popped into my head "Why can't we have 'soft' and 'hard' armor types.

 

So, why not? Give an improved GUI for armor, halve most armor values or give them resistances to different types of damage.

 

Let players who want to be a slow, lumbering, tank, be a slow, lumbering, tank. With chainmail as a "soft" type, but heavy weight, and plate armor over the chainmail as a "hard" type but still with heavy weight, a player could have drastically improved defense at the cost of most of their maneuverability. 

 

Why not let us have clothing type "armor" in the form of cloth shirts, pants, hoods, shoes, gloves, and cloaks. Possibly even add a padded version for improved defense with little downsides. This could force players to change how they armor themselves. Let cloth armor be non-restricting but weak against slashing and piercing type attacks, but more effective than heavy plate armor against blunt attacks, as cloth absorbs some force rather than transmitting all of it. Maybe start players with "thin cloth" armor, which has no defense rating but gives a nice way to define new players and travelers, possibly even a temperature resistance modifier based on the starting biome. Cold biomes would start the player with thicker clothing, which would slow down the player in any warmer biomes, but help with the low temperatures of cold biomes. Temperate biomes would get some medium thickness which would be ideal for most biomes, but loses function when entering more extreme biomes. Hot biomes should get really thin starting clothing, to allow dissipation of heat faster, yet in colder biomes, the player would become slowed down dramatically due to energy loss without protection from the cold.

 

Let maneuverability be a "stat" of a player, the higher weight on the player, the less effective their attacks will be. With metal armor as the heaviest, but most effective against slashing and piercing type blows. Leather mildly effective against all forms of attack but less effective than the more specialized metal or padded cloth at doing their respective defense. (Hardened leather is made by tanning leather a second time? Use that for heavy type leather armor.) Along with cloth as the weakest against slashing and piercing, but much stronger than metal or leather against crushing blows. Why not even cured hides as an early-game insulation method.

 

I'll probably toss something together sometime... just as an example.

 

--Blue

(yes, I have returned, gem mayhem HO!)

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Why can't we have 'soft' and 'hard' armor types.

Because coding something like that is many times harder than making new blocks or even devices. And it doesn't improve the gameplay so much to be developer's priority.

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Well, you have a made a common mistake. Armour is not actually cumbersome if made properly or even with moderate skill, and it is very easy to maneuver in full plate. There are videos of people doing acrobatics in the bloody stuff. It wouldn't be very useful in battle if it made you a walking piece of sheet metal, would it? The modern conception has the bad habit of comparing people in armour to tanks, slow and powerful, whereas in reality the most it might do to you is leave you a little more tired at the end of the day if you were unfit.

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Because coding something like that is many times harder than making new blocks or even devices. And it doesn't improve the gameplay so much to be developer's priority.

 

Not true at all, basic armor, food, and even non-splash potions have the handles required for this style of armoring.

 

Well, you have a made a common mistake. Armour is not actually cumbersome if made properly or even with moderate skill, and it is very easy to maneuver in full plate. There are videos of people doing acrobatics in the bloody stuff. It wouldn't be very useful in battle if it made you a walking piece of sheet metal, would it? The modern conception has the bad habit of comparing people in armour to tanks, slow and powerful, whereas in reality the most it might do to you is leave you a little more tired at the end of the day if you were unfit.

 

Partially true, Fitted armor custom made for the wearer is not cumbersome, but if it is bulk made armor or non-fitted armor, it will slow down or debilitate the user to a degree. plate armor is also really hard to see out of.  ALSO, with the average weight of steel being around 7,850kilograms per cubic meter... lets say that is the worth of an anvil, as each block in minecraft is three cubic meters in volume. 7,850 / 7 (double ingots) = 1121.42 kilograms per double ingot, halve that = 551.05 kilograms, which gives us the weight of a single ingot of steel. Armor in TFC is made from multiple plates and doubleplates of metal. Tell me, even if a single piece of armor only used one ingot, how would wearing half a ton of metal not slow you down? I win, now sit down.

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Except that this is a game, and calculations like that are completely moot when considering the balance of enjoyable gameplay. As a counter argument: Steve can carry the empire state building's worth of dirt blocks in his inventory with no problem, half a ton of metal is nothing compared to that.

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With the average weight of steel being around 7,850kilograms per cubic meter... lets say that is the worth of an anvil, as each block in minecraft is three cubic meters in volume. 7,850 / 7 (double ingots) = 1121.42 kilograms per double ingot, halve that = 551.05 kilograms, which gives us the weight of a single ingot of steel.

Three?? 1*1*1 is one. Don't you learn kindergarten math?

 

Also, a better measurement is the ingot stacks, since you can physically see the ingot's size comparing to the world's building blocks. You got 64 ingots per one cubic meter. Google gives us 122.65625 kg. An ingot is ALWAYS less than that because there are empty spaces around the ingots, so let's assume the weight to be 120 kg. Make it a double sheet and you got 480 kg. So, that is pretty much what Kitty said.

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Except that this is a game, and calculations like that are completely moot when considering the balance of enjoyable gameplay. As a counter argument: Steve can carry the empire state building's worth of dirt blocks in his inventory with no problem, half a ton of metal is nothing compared to that.

 

Well... maybe I shouldn't try to use real-world physics in a game where physics are almost null... compared to real world standard at least.

 

Three?? 1*1*1 is one. Don't you learn kindergarten math?

 

Also, a better measurement is the ingot stacks, since you can physically see the ingot's size comparing to the world's building blocks. You got 64 ingots per one cubic meter. Google gives us 122.65625 kg. An ingot is ALWAYS less than that because there are empty spaces around the ingots, so let's assume the weight to be 120 kg. Make it a double sheet and you got 480 kg. So, that is pretty much what Kitty said.

 

Got me there, cubing must have skewed my measurement and made me think one block is three meters cubed. lets div the 7,850kg/m3 to 70% that lands us at 5495kg for an anvil. which, comprised of seven double ingots, or fourteen ingots, makes each ingot 392.5kg per ingot. If one ingot is 1/64 of 95% of a cubic meter... that still lands at 116.52kg/ingot , meaning that our methods of finding ingot weight align. fairly close. so lets base a single ingot of steel on 120kg. we need four sheets to make a chestplate, and each sheet is two ingots... meaning that a chestplate needs eight ingots. Equaling 960kg of armor, almost a ton of solid plate armor. and that is just the chestplate. But, as kitty said, Steve can carry a lot of dirt at a time without any consequences so. eh. 

But maybe Steve stores his actual inventory in some localized gravity well that dissipates as he dies, but he wears his actual armor or tools when they're needed. I dunno, just trying to bring some science to steve's massive inveotory capacity.

 

TLDR: One ingot of steel Ingame if weight is implemented in a more precise weight should be about 120kg. Steve's inventory is BS. and armor would still be heavy even if made out of 120kg ingots.

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I like the idea.

 

Because as it is now, people just slap on the best armor they have, and once they have steel, they just slap that on and unless you have steel as well, there is little you can do against them.

And ambushes are not as effective as it could be, as the entire point of an ambush is to catch your enemies unprepared, and you can be prepared to fight(gearwise) 24/7 with no ill effects.

 

I'd like it if you had to really think about the pros and cons of armor and what you are going to use it for before you slap it on.

Also, it will encourage people to fortify their homes and bases, and the areas around it, so they can move around their towns, homes, and farms without the need to carry heavy armor around.

 

Except that this is a game, and calculations like that are completely moot when considering the balance of enjoyable gameplay. As a counter argument: Steve can carry the empire state building's worth of dirt blocks in his inventory with no problem, half a ton of metal is nothing compared to that.

He can carry over 48 eiffel tower worth of weight in his inventory with no problem, get an a donkey carrying almost as much without the donkey having problems, the ride the said donkey over a lily pad without the lily pad sinking or breaking. Really, we should leave earth logic where it belongs. On earth

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I just explain it that Steve's inventory and chests are personal pocket dimensions. The only thing he actually "carries" is the stuff he's wearing, sword in sheath, tool/quiver on back, and 1 item out of the stack of whatever is selected in his hotbar. Yes, he is still unusually strong holding a cubic meter of gold with two gold tools and full gold armor (vanilla here obviously, TFC equivalent would be rose gold) but no more then a minor super hero. Perfectly believable if he's genetically enhanced OR if the gravity on the minecraft planet is way lower. (Which it isn't, a MC world all the way to the far lands would be bigger than earth so unless it's hollow the gravity would be higher)

After that everything in TFC at least makes some logical sense. There IS lily pads big enough to walk on. They're only 1 square meter too. Now a donkey on the lily pads is the only place the logic breaks down.

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After that everything in TFC at least makes some logical sense. There IS lily pads big enough to walk on. They're only 1 square meter too. Now a donkey on the lily pads is the only place the logic breaks down.

Well, that, and carrying 32 cubic meters of dirt in your hand

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Well, that, and carrying 32 cubic meters of dirt in your hand

You didn't underfed stand. My explanation Steve doesn't hold the entire stack in his hand. Just one block/item out of the stack. A cubic meter of dirt is light enough to be believable
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Oh, my bad, didn't read that part. It was late at night..... really shouldn't do that.....

 

And no, a cubic meter of dirt is not light, it's huge, and heavy.

 

Anyways, having a personal pocket dimension is just as believable that carrying all that stuff by yourself, but lets stop this discussion, shall we?

Nothing good can come of trying to put earth logic into games.

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