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TomatoThief

Armor

25 posts in this topic

I crafted my very first piece of armor last night - a copper breastplate... woohoo! It took a LONG time to accurately smith all the components, and I felt proud when I nailed that last pixel down and claimed my prize. Lots of re-working, lots of broken stone hammers, a couple over-melted ingots. Now I feel...

 

...paranoid.

 

I read the wiki, but I still don't have a clear understanding of what happens when I get hit. What I do know is that when a hit lands, a section is chosen at random with the chest most likely to get hit. That's why I made the breastplate first. I know it has a P/S/C rating of 400/400/250. But these numbers are meaningless to me. Let's say a skeleton shoots me for 100 damage, and it hits my head. I take 100 damage...

  • If the next shot hits my copper chest with a "protection" of 400, what kind of damage reduction should I expect, and why?
  • What happens to the durability, and is it related to total damage received or raw number of hits taken?
  • Can I expect armor to last virtually forever until I'm well into the next tier, or is it just going to save my life a couple times over then break?
  • Can it be repaired?
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hehe congrats for your set  ;)

 

Does it could be too much if there should exist a system that emphasis the player to keep his armour set during all the period age by implementing a repair system like you said TomatoChief, or a boost stats system by welding other sub metals like gold or silver to the actual amour/weapon set??

 

Prospector pick could give it more accurate cues. Or more specific directions for a specific ores, like kaolinite and graphite ores needed for the crucible, those are pain in the ass to find. This could give a hand to continue, don't know...

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Damage reduction is done off of the calculation 1000 / (1000 + Armor Rating). So a copper chestplate taking piercing damage will hurt the player at 1000 / 1400 (or about 70%). So the skeleton shoots you for 100 damage, you get hit in the chest, and only take 70 damage.

 

Durability is based on the amount of damage taken (after the reduction is applied), and not on the raw number of hits taken. It isn't finished being coded in the game yet, but eventually the smithing skill when creating the item will have also have an impact on how much durability damage is done when taking a hit.

 

I haven't played with it enough to tell you how long the armor will last, but it definitely depends on your play style. Armor isn't meant to make you infinitely invincible.

 

Armor cannot be repaired.

 

*Sidenote: While digging in the code I've found that if you take an unprotected hit to your head, it will do 75% more damage, and an unprotected hit to your feet will give the player slowness. I'll be adding this information to the Armor page on the wiki in a bit.

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Thanks Kitty - that helps a lot. I've been slowed when hit, but assumed it was just a random chance effect. Now I know it can be prevented with boots. Also confirmation that when it seems like I got critically hit, it's because I was... critically hit to the head.

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So now, here's all I know about armor.

a chestpate will be able to protect you from most hits, as they will mostly hit you in the chest

a leggings will offer the next best protection, and use less ingots

a pair of boots will offer the lowest protection, but prevent slowness in case you are hit in the feet, and get damaged from fall damage(don't know if htey prevent it)

a helmet will prevent a 'critical hit' in the case you are hit in the head, meaning you will be much more safer.

 

Seems like armor pieces are pretty well balanced

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I've taken a look at the piercing protection (since I think skeletons are the most dangerous enemy) from each armor class to get an idea of how useful it is to upgrade to the next tech level. I can't seem to figure out how to post a table here, so here's a plaintext breakdown.

Material Type	Piercing ProtectionLeather		200Copper		400Bismuth Bronze	600Wrought Iron	800Steel		1000Black Steel	2000Blue Steel	2500Material Type	Damage Taken %Leather		83Copper		71Bismuth Bronze	63Wrought Iron	56Steel		50Black Steel	33Blue Steel	29Material Type	Effective Health MultiplierLeather		1.2Copper		1.4Bismuth Bronze	1.6Wrought Iron	1.8Steel		2.0Black Steel	3.0Blue Steel	3.5

It seems to me that upgrading to Steel armor is particularly underwhelming considering the huge resource cost of a blast furnace. I think I'll stick with wrought iron until I find nickel and skip plain steel unless slashing damage becomes more of a serious threat.

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I'm going to let this one pass because the damage protection numbers are public knowledge, but posting numbers like these are grounds to be banned on these forums as it ruins the magic of TFC.

 

Edit: However, this will result in a warning point on the account for 24 hours to make sure you understand.

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I've taken a look at the piercing protection (since I think skeletons are the most dangerous enemy) from each armor class to get an idea of how useful it is to upgrade to the next tech level. I can't seem to figure out how to post a table here, so here's a plaintext breakdown.

Material Type	Piercing ProtectionLeather		200Copper		400Bismuth Bronze	600Wrought Iron	800Steel		1000Black Steel	2000Blue Steel	2500Material Type	Damage Taken %Leather		83Copper		71Bismuth Bronze	63Wrought Iron	56Steel		50Black Steel	33Blue Steel	29Material Type	Effective Health MultiplierLeather		1.2Copper		1.4Bismuth Bronze	1.6Wrought Iron	1.8Steel		2.0Black Steel	3.0Blue Steel	3.5
It seems to me that upgrading to Steel armor is particularly underwhelming considering the huge resource cost of a blast furnace. I think I'll stick with wrought iron until I find nickel and skip plain steel unless slashing damage becomes more of a serious threat.
You should have used Regular bronze in that sheet not bismuth bronze.
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Thanks Kitty - that helps a lot. I've been slowed when hit, but assumed it was just a random chance effect. Now I know it can be prevented with boots. Also confirmation that when it seems like I got critically hit, it's because I was... critically hit to the head.

It is a random chance effect, pretty much, because part that gets hit is decided from RNG value, not the part that someone actually aimed to hit.

Note that this also means incomplete set of armor will let some of the hits through as if you didn't wear any armor at all.

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I'm guessing a lot of like-minded gamers seek out hard numbers not just because we're number-junkies, but because we've been repeatedly burned by games either being flat out buggy, wrong, or deceptive about their descriptors; or by not having enough qualitative descriptions to make sound qualitative decisions.

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Thanks Kittychanley, am I the only one who wondering precisely what do each skill do?

 

- Agriculture skills increase chance to get 2 seeds from crops

- Armor smithing skill decrease durability damage received

- Cooking skills increase the chance to get tasteful meal ?

 

The rest? 

Well, did you intend to make a wiki page for skills one day? :)

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Thanks Kittychanley, am I the only one who wondering precisely what do each skill do?

 

- Agriculture skills increase chance to get 2 seeds from crops

- Armor smithing skill decrease durability damage received

- Cooking skills increase the chance to get tasteful meal ?

 

The rest? 

Well, did you intend to make a wiki page for skills one day? :)

 

 

Yes there will be a wiki page for skills once the skills system has been expanded. Right now there are only three skills that actually do anything.

 

Agriculture: Increased chance to get 2 seeds when breaking crops.

Cooking: Increases the taste of non-terrible meals. The skill has nothing to do with the chance of getting a non-terrible meal, it only affects how good the meal tastes if you happen to find a combo that isn't terrible.

Smithing: Increases the durability of the final tool.

 

The more specific skills like armor smithing don't actually do anything yet, so there is no point in putting that skill on a wiki page yet.

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The more specific skills like armor smithing don't actually do anything yet, so there is no point in putting that skill on a wiki page yet.

Quite the opposite, that's a perfectly valid point to put it on a wiki page.
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In my experience, putting something on the wiki that states "This does nothing" results in the exact same thing as not putting it on the page. I still see the same amount of posts saying "What does this thing do?"

 

I can even link those people to the page saying it does nothing.. and they'll still ask "But it's in the game, so it has to do something right?"

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Wait, wait wait.

 

Hold on.

Are you trying to tell me that it doesn't do anything?

 

Posted Image

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I'm going to let this one pass because the damage protection numbers are public knowledge, but posting numbers like these are grounds to be banned on these forums as it ruins the magic of TFC.

 

Edit: However, this will result in a warning point on the account for 24 hours to make sure you understand.

Thanks for the warning, but I'm struggling to know what kind of thing is or is not grounds for punishment. In this case, all I did was take the damage formula you posted and plug in the numbers on the armor provided by the in-game tooltip. If armor values take away from the magic of the experience, why are they included in the tooltip?

I don't want to be confrontational here,.. it's just that I'm a numbers-focused type of player and I can see myself butting up against this kind of rule frequently. For example, in another thread I looked at the code to see how forge chimneys are determined to be valid because TomatoThief found it somewhat unintuitive. Should I be censoring myself in these situations?

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Using the formula that I posted to get the numbers wasn't the issue. It was sharing those numbers after you collected them all. If players want to analyze the numbers behind the scenes, they are welcome to do so. The violation of the rule comes when they post this analysis, along with the conclusion of "X item is better than Y because Z." Information like this suddenly results in players who have read that only ever going for Y, where before they would blissfully go between both X and Y depending on what materials they have. The armor values are included in the tooltip so that players are able to do the analysis if they want to, you just aren't allowed to make the results public.

 

The code snippit regarding the forge chimney was perfectly acceptable, because it was explaining which chimney shapes are valid, not which chimney shapes are best.

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I get what you're trying to do, but I think that your way of handling this isn't a good idea. Instead of this information blackout, you should be focusing on proper usage of spoiler tags and wiki sections.

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sounds like just a simple request to keep meta-gaming out of the public eye

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sounds like just a simple request to keep meta-gaming out of the public eye

 

I guess. Another word is censorship, which is of course their right, but I don't know how drawn out euphemisms make it better.

 

<sarcasm> All I know, is that many games have had great success by trying to make it difficult for people to understand the mechanics.

 

It's not like real life has mechanics that can be determined and then shared with other people, or anything. Takes magic. </sarcasm>

 

There was a time when ore generation was entirely whacksauce, and only through dissemination of actual statistical and code analysis could we silence the "you're holding it wrong" (see: majority) crowd.

 

I'm with crafter15. There's a proper way to deal with this, and it's enforcing the use of spoiler tags, or wiki sections, or not censoring links to wikis that may contain said information.

 

In any event, it's not Kittychanley's edict- it came from upon high, and is as old as the mod itself. I look forward to it changing one day, as some people enjoy knowing and exploiting the mechanics of life/game to get the maximum fulfillment from it, for them.

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I guess. Another word is censorship, which is of course their right, but I don't know how drawn out euphemisms make it better.

 

<sarcasm> All I know, is that many games have had great success by trying to make it difficult for people to understand the mechanics.

 

It's not like real life has mechanics that can be determined and then shared with other people, or anything. Takes magic. </sarcasm>

 

There was a time when ore generation was entirely whacksauce, and only through dissemination of actual statistical and code analysis could we silence the "you're holding it wrong" (see: majority) crowd.

 

I'm with crafter15. There's a proper way to deal with this, and it's enforcing the use of spoiler tags, or wiki sections, or not censoring links to wikis that may contain said information.

 

In any event, it's not Kittychanley's edict- it came from upon high, and is as old as the mod itself. I look forward to it changing one day, as some people enjoy knowing and exploiting the mechanics of life/game to get the maximum fulfillment from it, for them.

There is a difference between "mechanics" -which are essential, there for knowledge about them is as well- and numbers about stuff that is not essential to know. if you want the numbers, get them yourself. I hate seeing those unnecessary numbers, but more importantly Bioxx hates it. So it's going to stay that way despite your arguement otherwise.

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There is a difference between "mechanics" -which are essential, there for knowledge about them is as well- and numbers about stuff that is not essential to know. if you want the numbers, get them yourself. I hate seeing those unnecessary numbers, but more importantly Bioxx hates it. So it's going to stay that way despite your arguement otherwise.

 

The numbers are mechanics, mate.

It's all math, and the mechanics change entirely depending on the numbers. So no, there isn't a difference.

 

I'm sorry you hate seeing something. That is why you shouldn't click the proposed spoiler tags, or would you block all porn for everyone because you object to it?

 

On the latter part, regarding Bioxx, you are completely correct, and that's why I said it is his right. Also, it's his right to decide whether it stays that way or not, despite your declaration that it shall.

 

Thanks for playing.

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I dunno.

There is a difference between A is better then B, and A is better then B by 1000 points I suppose.

 

And the numbers might be the mechanics, sure but

Coal fuels forge

And

Coal fuels forge for xxx time

Both mechanics, but the bottom has numbers, and the top doesn't

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I dunno.

There is a difference between A is better then B, and A is better then B by 1000 points I suppose.

 

And the numbers might be the mechanics, sure but

Coal fuels forge

And

Coal fuels forge for xxx time

Both mechanics, but the bottom has numbers, and the top doesn't

 

Can't argue with that. It also has the letter "x".

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It starts to occut to me that this thread is now completely derailed.

Regarding third of the OPs question - it differs between armors. The weaker ones, say, copper appear to break far more easily than higher tier ones, if I did not fall victim to wrong impressions. Since the durability hit is dependant on what damage you take and different armors excel in protecting against different types of damage, it also depends what you fight regularly.

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