Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
Dark_Demon

TFC is missing a goal

121 posts in this topic

Oh yea, time on servers advances pretty fast, doesn't it?

 

I think with natural disasters, Visitor's idea is best.

Just somewhat adverse weather, such as storms and blizzards at worst, maybe rainstorms that last a few days, nothing more.

 

And for the more destruct things, make them the result of player interactions.

 

.....

 

I got an idea about what one end-game goal could be.

Maybe there could be something like a giant metal golem thing(kinda like talos from the greek myths) buried underground or something like that, and when you activate it and beat it, it drops some metal that can't be gotten anywhere else or something

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said elsewhere, the problem with making skills solely dependent on player skill is that it makes no distinction between a skilled player playing a veteran character and a skilled player playing a new character.

 

Also, there's no reason to believe that people will necessarily forget one skill while they master another.  I haven't played Dwarf Fortress for 6 months, but I'm pretty sure I still have most if not all the key-bindings memorized.  

 

Ultimately, that kind of gameplay penalized people with poor memories/motor skills.  Persistence and the willingness to keep doing something that you've little aptitude for should count for something.  

 

I like the idea of disasters.  Once you've got the farm up, the mines working, the metalworks built...there's nothing that can really harm you.  Heck, you're pretty much invulnerable to everything but stupidity from the bronze age up.  Personally, I'd use a seasonal system.  So, certain events are tied to certain seasons, like tropical storms, droughts, etc.  For server, use long cycles, like a certain kind of disaster which strikes between 45-60 years.  At 45 years since the last one, RNG checks start.  Every year that passes decreases the range until at 60 years, it's checking for a 1 rolled on a 1 sided die.  Another disaster could have a totally different range.  This could play in with my almanac idea, which could record those events even when you're logged off (for a MP server) and give relatively probabilities of an event happening in the book.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said elsewhere, the problem with making skills solely dependent on player skill is that it makes no distinction between a skilled player playing a veteran character and a skilled player playing a new character.

In all honesty, I.. actually don't see much of a problem. Though I don't think that's true - because there's much beside character skills. Veteran player will be well-equipped and with tiny bit of edge that comes from familiarity with the game. To be frank, I don't think he should have overly much additional power beside that.Aside from this, the idea is for skills to have distinction, but to not be a brainless 'let's slap a bonus on whatever you can already do so you'll do it stronger' but provide an edge to those who can use it well, while still leaving most space for player's ingenuity. Good player then will have more tools to employ but if they cannot appreciate them, their opponents should have better chances. In addition to that we already have a well working mechanics separating veterans from new players in the form of levels - more HP and ability to withstand longer with no food or water coupled with better equipment and familiarity with area and/or use of in-game weapons is enough in my opinion.

Also, there's no reason to believe that people will necessarily forget one skill while they master another. I haven't played Dwarf Fortress for 6 months, but I'm pretty sure I still have most if not all the key-bindings memorized.

Either I am missing connection between first and the second sentence or you forgot/don't know what mechanics we discuss. In the game, the characters who do not use certain skills experience their decay (by which we mean they lose them but get a huge bonus when taking them up again, so they can more easily regain what they've lost). In no way we talk about players - as in 'players sitting in front of computers' - being the same, no matter if they are or not.Doesn't mean I'd like aforementioned decay here in TFC, but I thought I'd clarify what it is discussed.

Ultimately, that kind of gameplay penalized people with poor memories/motor skills. Persistence and the willingness to keep doing something that you've little aptitude for should count for something.

They do, half of the gameplay revolves around it in the form of crafting better equipment and acquiring experience levels. I simply don't think we should go beyond that and additional options, not-directly-affecting-power options some skills could provide. Otherwise we'll got unfair opposite - people who get bonuses and powers only because they were grinding brainlessly outperforming their opponents.Should the idea of almanac go through, I don't see a problem with being able to note disasters down, though I am not sure whether we really need for it to be done automatically. Simply being able to write stuff in in-game notepad with some date would work fine for me. As for cycles on servers, not sure about the time range 45 - 60 but I sincerely believe that either way, it should be something servers themselves should adjust as some people may want peaceful, stable worlds and some would probably try to create community and survive in a world of turmoil and uncertain tomorrow.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea of the almanac doing it for you was for servers in which a disaster might happen while you're logged off, but you might still want the information to better estimate when another disaster is likely to occur, and hence prepare for it, in the same way that people prepare for tornado or hurricane season.  Sure, the disasters happen outside of our expectations, but a lot of meteorological disasters happen somewhat predictably.

 

Regarding skill decay...I was saying that having all in-game ability based off of player skills allows someone who has a good memory to retain all their smithing skill even if 100 in-game years have passed since they touched an anvil.  Having an element that is based off of in-game skill progression rather than player skill means that the character (as separate from the player) must remain invested in an ability in order to keep it optimized.  Again, these ideas are really more about creating a reason for there to be more specialization, and hence functional economy, on MP servers where people congregate in towns.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw this topic and then, BAM, idea! This idea is however so complex(if used fully) and needs its own thread:

Aging and the fountain of youth

This would be a proces of you getting debuffs until you die of aging, whit is diffrent from regular dying and should incorporate:

Milk

All da gems!!!

Hot springs(not to be confuses whit hot spring)

Dat red n' blue steel

Magick(if it ever gets added)

Offrands to the minecraft god(notch):

A fresh raw meat from all beasts(pork, steak, etc)

The forbiden fruit(red apple)

Sacred blood(red wine(once its implemented))

And the primal woods(all wood plancks of the original minecraft trees)

If you become immortal(witch is my suggestion for the end goal) i think a boss is in need: Death!

Once deafeted, death gives you the mortal elixir, permitting you to become mortal aigain.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it would be nice if skills would require, well, actual skill or were not governed by in-game skills as much as player aptitude in general. This way things can be mastered, but not by grinding and racking stats, but by actally employing some wit and know-how in the work by the player.

 

That was the original goal of the mod - things weren't meant to get very 'RPG-y'. I think that Bioxx may have betrayed his own mod a bit by even adding the skills we have so far.This mod isn't about Steve knowing how to survive, it's about you knowing.

 

 

 

I saw this topic and then, BAM, idea! This idea is however so complex(if used fully) and needs its own thread:Aging and the fountain of youthThis would be a proces of you getting debuffs until you die of aging, whit is diffrent from regular dying and should incorporate:MilkAll da gems!!!Hot springs(not to be confuses whit hot spring)Dat red n' blue steelMagick(if it ever gets added)Offrands to the minecraft god(notch):A fresh raw meat from all beasts(pork, steak, etc)The forbiden fruit(red apple)Sacred blood(red wine(once its implemented))And the primal woods(all wood plancks of the original minecraft trees)If you become immortal(witch is my suggestion for the end goal) i think a boss is in need: Death!Once deafeted, death gives you the mortal elixir, permitting you to become mortal aigain.

 

 

...This is the dumbest fucking thing I've seen in weeks. Not only are your grammar and spelling god-awful (if you're foreign or 10 years old, at least note that and excuse yourself at the start of the post for fuck's sake), but it's completely incohesive. TFC is a completely separate thing from vanilla, so what in the hell makes spruce, oak, kapok, and birch so damn special? And what is the difference between 'a hot spring' and 'hot springs', that they could be confused with each other? What the crap do ANY of these things have to do with death (other than milk, which I can maybe kind of see as being a sort of 'liquid life' if you squint your brain a bit and think happy thoughts).

And finally, in what universe is defeating the personification of death even possible, much less a good idea? (side note: anyone who answers 'Bill and Ted' will first be hugged, and then viciously beaten)

 

I don't know how many times I have to say it people, stick with the TFC aesthetic. This mod is built around one core concept, not 'whatever the players think might be pretty cool right that moment' - stick to it or get out.

 

That post was bad, and you should feel bad. Go to your room until you don't suck as much.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I don't want an explicit goal, the game, for me at this juncture lacks a real... meta-goal once you make it to the iron age. A goal for me to make for myself with my sandbox. In most cases, I've simply already accomplished all the cool things I want to do by steel.

 

What's your real limit then? being able to move water and lava. That's it.

 

I need more pay-off for my hard work. Let me do amazing things with my advanced metals. Give me simple machines or something, I don't know. Just something to do with them other than move water and lava.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay first yes im sorry 4 my terrible spelling.

Second, the reason why death appears is that the fountain only makes death visible. Also while i was posting i was assuming that people would think it would be implimented in a tfc-like way.

Also, note that:

The reason why those specific woods and the Apple represent old minecraft items

Representation of iems(i will be citing christian religion):

The Apple eaten by eve that god kiked us out of and by concequent mortal(i think please correct me)

Gems represent beuaty, hardiness, and longevety

Mystic things(r n b steel, majic): the power to grow above, to surpass anything(including death apparently)

Nostaljic items(woods): reminecent of the past, what came bafore, what lies ahead

Meat: the matter of life itself

Milk: the entry liquid to life

Wine:(running out of ideas!)

also, take a spring. Heat it up. Now its a hot spring(not to be confused whit hot springs)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay first yes im sorry 4 my terrible spelling.Second, the reason why death appears is that the fountain only makes death visible. Also while i was posting i was assuming that people would think it would be implimented in a tfc-like way.Also, note that:The reason why those specific woods and the Apple represent old minecraft itemsRepresentation of iems(i will be citing christian religion):The Apple eaten by eve that god kiked us out of and by concequent mortal(i think please correct me)Gems represent beuaty, hardiness, and longevetyMystic things(r n b steel, majic): the power to grow above, to surpass anything(including death apparently)Nostaljic items(woods): reminecent of the past, what came bafore, what lies aheadMeat: the matter of life itselfMilk: the entry liquid to lifeWine:(running out of ideas!)also, take a spring. Heat it up. Now its a hot spring(not to be confused whit hot springs)

 

 

 

Edit: Gods I wish I'd known about this clip sooner than this. It's so fitting for so many things...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...........

(Lol)

Also the spring thing was a joke.

I should stop posting things for a while now...

(Lol aigain)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...........(Lol)Also the spring thing was a joke.I should stop posting things for a while now...(Lol aigain)

 

Not at all, I would never encourage someone to cease posting altogether.But for the sake of what brain cells the rest of us have left, post things that aren't crap. PLEASE.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ranting. please ignore

I saw this topic and then, BAM, idea! This idea is however so complex(if used fully) and needs its own thread:Aging and the fountain of youthThis would be a proces of you getting debuffs until you die of aging, whit is diffrent from regular dying and should incorporate:MilkAll da gems!!!Hot springs(not to be confuses whit hot spring)Dat red n' blue steelMagick(if it ever gets added)Offrands to the minecraft god(notch):A fresh raw meat from all beasts(pork, steak, etc)The forbiden fruit(red apple)Sacred blood(red wine(once its implemented))And the primal woods(all wood plancks of the original minecraft trees)If you become immortal(witch is my suggestion for the end goal) i think a boss is in need: Death!Once deafeted, death gives you the mortal elixir, permitting you to become mortal aigain.

So....are you saing that we should slowly age and die unless we somehow mixMilkAll da gems!!!Hot springs(not to be confuses whit hot spring)Dat red n' blue steelMagick(if it ever gets added)Offrands to the minecraft god(notch):A fresh raw meat from all beasts(pork, steak, etc)The forbiden fruit(red apple)Sacred blood(red wine(once its implemented))And the primal woods(all wood plancks of the original minecraft trees) Which somehow makes us immortal so we can kill death and become mortal again. You know, other then this making no sense whatsoever(even with the reasons you said, it makes no sense), most people would think that the fountain of youth makes you, you know, younger, not immortal. And people would expect to get immortality for killing death, not lose it(you know, the entire master of death thing). But really, a fountain of youth made from random items that gives you immortality and fighting death really doesn't fit with TFC anyways.

I was thinking and re-reading all the posts posted, and I think what TFC needs right now isn't actually a end-game goal.I think what it needs is new content and fleshing out of various things. I think that the 'TFC is missing a goal' comes from the fact that when you reach colored steel, things feel... incomplete.There is no real difference other then the buckets, which are pretty stupid, in fact, from copper to colored steel, the only changes really are longer durability, more damage and protection, and being more complicated to make. There is no real thing that really defines the change from one age to the next, which makes it feel like you just left off at the middle of the tech tree, which makes you want for something more, which in turn makes the 'TFC is missing a goal' feel. At least, that's what I think

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totaly aggre whit you. Im completley fine staying in the bronze âge and not giving a f*ge about the steels. Really once your at the bronze age the only thing left to do is get to the next metal procesing... And the next one and the next one, ext.

Work should be done on enhansing goals for ages, because tfc feels(no offence modders but) feels empty at that age. Things to add in between stages is what we need. Also, i feel that modding focus should not be on metals for some time, tfc is already way complicated whith what we have now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things to add in between stages is what we need.

 

A valid point.

We really need more to do in-between finding new metals - advancing a tier in metallurgy is something that should happen by chance, because you just happened to find a vein of the metal you need. It shouldn't be the full meat of the experience.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now any metal pick can break any rock type. Maybe this could be improved without adding too much extra frustration...

 

Some rocks may not break with inferior picks or...

Rich ore can be collected with better picks, whereas poor ore can only be collected with crappy picks.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now any metal pick can break any rock type. Maybe this could be improved without adding too much extra frustration...

 

Some rocks may not break with inferior picks or...

Rich ore can be collected with better picks, whereas poor ore can only be collected with crappy picks.

*cough* thisisalreadyinminecraftandthatswhatwearetryingtoavoid*cough*

 

 

 

A valid point.

We really need more to do in-between finding new metals - advancing a tier in metallurgy is something that should happen by chance, because you just happened to find a vein of the metal you need. It shouldn't be the full meat of the experience.

Precicley. i feel the meat of the experience should be focused on politics in some way, and possibly seige weapons made out of iron would encourage me to make a floundry. I also think that food needs to be expanded upon to make it a real chalenge. really if you have a couple of berry bushes your good to go. in the olden days about 80% of the population was neede to feed themselves and the other people like the blacksmiths. at this point i feel as if tfc would need a own server only division if the fact above is expanded upon, and we could get more realistic societies.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precicley.

 

Excellent, glad we can agree - your post quality is improving alre-

 

 

i feel the meat of the experience should be focused on politics in some way

 

...nevermind.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so what are you proposing? Also, biox has a thread where he sais he might add kingdoms eventualy. Other than that, i suppose seige wepons are à good enouth stimulant to make me want to advance. While i meant focus on politics, it was kinda just for augmenting difficulty in multiplayer(the rest of my post after that)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so what are you proposing? Also, biox has a thread where he sais he might add kingdoms eventualy. Other than that, i suppose seige wepons are à good enouth stimulant to make me want to advance. While i meant focus on politics, it was kinda just for augmenting difficulty in multiplayer(the rest of my post after that)

 

Okay, but politics should in NO way be influenced by the game. This is all about emergent gameplay, politics should play out in TFC for the same reasons they play out in real life - limited resources, and basic human assholery. TFC already has limited resources, and players supply the dickishness ourselves. Politics already happen on large servers, as do wars - you just need enough people competing for the same stuff.

 

Emergent gameplay is always preferable to forced mechanical gameplay.Dunk and I once spoke about 'organic' code - a way of coding that lays the baseline and rules on how a thing can progress, and then allowing it to blossom out in whatever directions it likes. He's done it before, with some wonderful results. It's like setting the laws of physics, and then hitting 'create world' is sparking a big bang that just propagates itself from then on, forming the most interesting and entertaining things you'd have never thought of on your own. That's what this mod should be. The fun of minecraft in general, and in TFC specifically, is that the 'fun' ISN'T hard-coded into the game. It just hands you the toys, and watches as you play.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, but politics should in NO way be influenced by the game. This is all about emergent gameplay, politics should play out in TFC for the same reasons they play out in real life - limited resources, and basic human assholery. TFC already has limited resources, and players supply the dickishness ourselves. Politics already happen on large servers, as do wars - you just need enough people competing for the same stuff. Emergent gameplay is always preferable to forced mechanical gameplay.Dunk and I once spoke about 'organic' code - a way of coding that lays the baseline and rules on how a thing can progress, and then allowing it to blossom out in whatever directions it likes. He's done it before, with some wonderful results. It's like setting the laws of physics, and then hitting 'create world' is sparking a big bang that just propagates itself from then on, forming the most interesting and entertaining things you'd have never thought of on your own. That's what this mod should be. The fun of minecraft in general, and in TFC specifically, is that the 'fun' ISN'T hard-coded into the game. It just hands you the toys, and watches as you play.

I totaly agree. You just take the words out of my mouth. I would like more info however on the organic code thing. Like what isint hard coded in tfc atm? Anyways, for politics i totaly agree, althou resources need further limiting, and human dicfullness? Infinite supply.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive always dreamt of a game that would push that concept: evry gut in a cow, evry cell on a leaf. evry molecule in water(finaly a f*cken good water engine!). ive always thout of that in minecraft, where in a crafting table you could manipulate all the pixels, eatch whit diffrent physics, to get diffrent results, pushing creativity to levels of awsomeness almost never thout before.

(checked out your chanel btw, its cool!)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about the longer you play, the higher the chances of a disaster?

To elaborate, TFC has a year system, right? it starts at year 1 and progresses.

Perhaps from year 1~2, we could have a 0% chance for disasters, then from year 2~5, a 5% chance, then from year 5~10, a 10% chance, etc.

And other things such as storms being really common, but not doing much damage other then killing crops, stripping trees of leaves, killing grass, breaking glass, etc.

Earthquakes would simply create 'fractures' that destroy all blocks above it, so while destructive, all you need to do is cover up the fractures and repair the damage.

Volcanic eruptions could be rare, and only happen in a 'active' mountain biome, but be highly destructive and leave lava and obsidian and etc everywhere, etc.

 

How about on the 2 or 3rd year, a random disaster (earthquake, meteor shower, solar eclipse, etc.) would happen. You would have to build a base that can withstand all the disasters because you don't know which one will occur. After that, you would get a reward for surviving such as exposed ore from an earthquake, some sort of metal from the meteors, etc. I know not everyone will like this idea, so maybe it can be an optional game mode?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about on the 2 or 3rd year, a random disaster (earthquake, meteor shower, solar eclipse, etc.) would happen. You would have to build a base that can withstand all the disasters because you don't know which one will occur.

Yup, something like that would need a different mode or even better - be simply toggleable event rather than one which has a chance of happening automatically. While things like extended period of darkness, drastic weather or temporary change of progress of different features ("'Tis a sickly green sun! Ye food be spoilin' but also growin' swiftly!" kind of thing) may be challenges and affect gameplay for some time, they still allow all kinds of player endeavors.In comparison with that, forcing characters to abandon their nice little huts because they have now to make underground bunkers would be quite a bad thing.We start to move away quite far from 'end-game goals' and toward 'random disasters', I notice.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, something like that would need a different mode or even better - be simply toggleable event rather than one which has a chance of happening automatically. While things like extended period of darkness, drastic weather or temporary change of progress of different features ("'Tis a sickly green sun! Ye food be spoilin' but also growin' swiftly!" kind of thing) may be challenges and affect gameplay for some time, they still allow all kinds of player endeavors.In comparison with that, forcing characters to abandon their nice little huts because they have now to make underground bunkers would be quite a bad thing.We start to move away quite far from 'end-game goals' and toward 'random disasters', I notice.

Wouldn't surviving the disaster be the end game goal?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites