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AllenWL

Add firewood. because we really don't use entire logs for fires, unless it's a forest fire

33 posts in this topic

I was thinking, and I think that one logs to fuel the firepit, or the 8 logs for pit kilns(a tree or more) is a bit overpriced.

I mean, it takes 3 sticks to start the fire and suddenly it's asking for logs?

 

I think we should be able to craft a log and an axe to get about 2~3 firewood, which can be used to fuel firepits and pit kilns, because as of now, I use about one and a half trees to make my pottery and smelt my ores, and about half a tree to cook my meat.

 

Normally I wouldn't care about chopping down half a forest, but since chopping trees takes a bit of time in TFC, especially early-game when you just have bronze/copper/stone axes, you have to pit-kiln pretty much every ore you have, it gets really annoying to spend half your day chopping trees

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I'd say it's more of a balance issue than anything. Adding new items just so people can chop the log before putting it into fire doesn't seem like that important for me. If someone is really willing to add that, I'm fine with it but I'd be as fine with just increasing the time one log burns at it's maximal temperature.

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I think that needing to spend near 1/4 a (in-game) day chopping wood then spending it all in one go is a bit too annoying.

I mean, it doesn't make the game any challenging or anything like that, it just adds a grind where you have to chop down 10~20 trees just to fire your pit kilns and cook, make torches, and heat meals for one night. It's annoying and tedious to be going through logs like a plague of locusts, then run out at the middle of the night so all you can do is AFK.

 

I mean, if you can find some peat, it's more affordable, but I don't want it to be a find peat or spend half your time chopping trees and the other half burning them kinda thing

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10~20 trees? You must have a really oversized manufacture and mining operation going going. One tree (and no, not sequoia) is enough for all my daily needs, often with some wood blocks to spare for the next day or two. The only exception is charcoal making about once a year which may take 10-20 trees.

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I don't have a particular issue with logs being needed for pit kilns.

 
In terms of firepits, I do like the idea of being able to use sticks as fuel (although clearly they would last much less time than a log). My instinct is that this would likely required adding the ability to break logs down into sticks (presumably with an axe).
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My instinct is that this would likely required adding the ability to break logs down into sticks (presumably with an axe).

 

You can already turn logs into stick by breaking them with a hammer.

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Once you have a forge and have located a decent source of coal then in my opinion the firepit becomes obsolete. The fuel requirement is more of a storage value question than effort to obtain since I can store hundreds of coal in the same space to store 16 logs. If you need to cook something then just throw a single cheap piece of coal in the forge and use the excess heat to make some spare torches.

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If you had the ability to craft logs with an axe into multiple pieces of firewood (say, 2), and the firewood burns for less time than a log individually, but more than the log if you put the firewood from it all together. So if firewood kept a fire going for 75% of the time a log did, but you got 2 pieces of firewood per log, then by creating firewood you can have a a single log burn for another half as long as otherwise. This somewhat simulates managing a fire so it burns longer. If you dump a whole log on a fire, it might burn for a while, but not as long as two pieces of firewood cut from it put on the fire one after the other.

This "wood" (sorry) be particularly useful early game, so that you don't have to spend as much time cutting down trees for fuel while increasing the amount of time you can spend using the firepit for useful stuff, life making food so you won't starve for the next few days.

Naturally, the firewood would match the type of log it came from.

 

I'm sort of new to TFC, so I apologize if I've made any mistakes in my understanding of fire-burning mechanics.  

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I like the idea of fire-wood instead of logs, perhaps you could use both logs and firewood, but firewood burns hotter and uses less resources, in trade for the effort of splitting it?

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I am utterly spoiled on Sequoia forests. I was very disappointed with the still-slow rate of chopping of T1-T2 cast metal axes. Seriously, ramp that up! I will make a point to travel a moderate distance in search of Seqoias (or Kapoks, Acacias) with an empty inventory just for lumber runs. Chopping down 5 block trees to fuel charcoal production is torture.

 

Ain't Nobody Got Time fo Dat.

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Huh? Yeah, I'd agree that you're spoiled. Chopping sequoia with the worst stone axe takes how much, 20 seconds tops? Not a problem at all and it gets even easier with copper or bronze. If anything, I'd have chopping time for low-tier axes increased considerably and decreased it for higher tier-metal ones, to further encourage upgrading the tool assortment.

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just make a Douglas Fir farm, set them in a grid pattern 2 apart and when you break one they all break. This works better than sequoias in my opinion since you dont have to travel to go pick up the wood and you can grow them again in the same place.

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I spend relatively little time chopping wood and yet always end up with large woodpiles by the time I'm ready to make charcoal. I really don't see a need to change up the system. I'm more frustrated by ending up in barren  areas with little to no crops or animals than I am fussed about logs.

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I like the idea of fire-wood instead of logs, perhaps you could use both logs and firewood, but firewood burns hotter and uses less resources, in trade for the effort of splitting it?

In RL you also have to dry the wood to make it burn hotter and better.  I know people who dry wood for 3 years before using it.  Maybe firewood and logs should have a durability/damage tracking that when the wood drys it goes up in durability so it cooks longer and better, and when it is rained on the durability goes down.  So if you want to use firewood that cooks hotter (and faster with it being dryer and more surface area), you need it to dry it with cover and in a warm area (deserts better than rainforest).

 

You can already turn logs into stick by breaking them with a hammer.

Unfortunately you can't fuel a fire using sticks...I have like 8 stacks of sticks I would love to burn.

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Unfortunately you can't fuel a fire using sticks...I have like 8 stacks of sticks I would love to burn.

 

... You completely missed the context of that conversation. Franbo had suggested adding sticks as fuel, stating that there would also have to be the addition of getting sticks from logs. My response that you quoted was me simply stating that you can already get sticks from logs, so that doesn't need to be part of the suggestion.

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I've been think about this for a little while, and I think I've come up with some ideas to expand this suggestion a bit. Now I don't normally post in forums so be gentle if you will :P .

 

--The first part of this suggestion would be tree stumps, and they would look something like this, but perhaps half the height.Posted Image

 

When cutting down trees such as oak, which can have very large root systems in real life, they would leave behind a stump. To remove a stump from the ground you can either dig it up with a shovel, which would give you 2 logs rather than one, you could smash it with a hammer to receive 3-6 sticks, OR if you cant be bothered with the few extra seconds of effort to get a few more resources you can simply set it alight and walk away (since I know the main criticism of this idea would be that stumps are an unnecessary annoyance to tree farms).

 

The stump however would also have a secondary use. To split logs into firewood, you could place it on the stump with a Shift-Right-Click. Once the log is in place, a Right-click with a standard hand-ax will split it into 2-3 firewood.

 

--The second part would be a new tool/weapon. The Splitting Maul. Once the player has the ability to use metals, such as copper and bronze, they can use the splitting maul to gain 3-5 firewood per log. Additionally the Maul would serve as a decent weapon as it would deal both slashing AND crushing damage, though not nearly as well as either the sword or the mace, making it an over-all weaker weapon that can damage both skeletons and zombies.

 

--Lastly the firewood itself should not only burn slightly more efficiently, it should also stack much more efficiently. A firewood pile wood be similar to a log pile, but have a few more inventory slots, perhaps 8, and the firewood itself could stack 32 at a time. If a full pile is left in a covered area for a long period of time, maybe a season or two, it becomes a dry firewood pile. These piles would be very flammable so you would not want to have them too close to your kiln, forge, or fire pit, but the dry firewood itself would burn much more efficiently than the fresh stuff.

 

Alternatively, if adding a new type of wood pile is a bad idea, the firewood could simply be placed in the already existing log piles, but perhaps in larger stacks of 64, because if you take the extra time to process the logs into firewood, you are going to end up with a-lot more wood that needs a place to go.

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If you had the ability to craft logs with an axe into multiple pieces of firewood (say, 2), and the firewood burns for less time than a log individually, but more than the log if you put the firewood from it all together. So if firewood kept a fire going for 75% of the time a log did, but you got 2 pieces of firewood per log, then by creating firewood you can have a a single log burn for another half as long as otherwise. This somewhat simulates managing a fire so it burns longer. If you dump a whole log on a fire, it might burn for a while, but not as long as two pieces of firewood cut from it put on the fire one after the other.

Sorry to rain on this specific parade but due to the relationship between surface area and volume your argument is completely false. The burn time for a real fire is determined almost exclusively by a combination of the dryness/type of wood and the structure/ventilation. Obviously fuel size matters but only in conjunction with the size/heat of the fire it's being added to. I could go on but none of that matters because the way logs and fires work right now works great. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Read kitty's signature if you still think it needs to be added for realistic reasons. Just my opinion. tl;dr nope
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I was just pondering a little more and decided I dismissed this a little too thoroughly. While I maintain my position with everything I said in my previous post, I think the one ray of sunshine in this thread is the suggestion to dry logs.

 

Instead of adding new tools and weapons and blocks and elephants and giraffes for a single new firewood item it makes much more sense to simply have logs go through stages of dryness. When placed in a log pile that's not under open sky logs would start to progress from their initial stage.

 

Freshly Cut

Damp

Drying

Dry

Seasoned

 

It would be neat if wood burned hotter based on it's level of dryness as well as the type of tree it came from. Right now the only effects I can foresee would be making some tree types (kapok, willow etc) more or less useless for cooking until they had been dried for a few months, as well as slightly delaying the ability to make glass. I think that this particular suggestion has potential but would only be really useful if hotter fuels become a useful thing when heating homes for the body temp update or if cooking in wood-fueled fire-pits (or ovens/stove, see Better Cooking thread) used the burn temperature of the wood for things like cooking speed and chance of burning food.

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I've seen stumps being requested for another mod before. Basically the idea was for it to be a marker to show your deforestation. Some people just like to see the effects of Steve's wrath on the world

 

My main criticism of your idea would probably be, I think you underestimate how difficult it is to remove tree stumps. Few extra seconds just doesn't sound right (even multiplied by 72 for minecraft time). There are reasons why mild explosives have been traditionally been used to remove tree stumps and harvesting them for resources is pretty much a modern day thing. Of course you should still be able to do it, but you should have to put some effort into it

 

As for ruining tree farms, well isn't constantly replanting trees over and over again in the same spot without digging up the stump ridiculous?

 

TFC has code to encourage crop rotation. This is definitely in the spirit of TFC

 

As for firewood and log piles. Rather than being affected by the sky, how about making it affected by rain or contact with water streams. You should be able to dry wood out in a desert even if it can see the sky.

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As for ruining tree farms, well isn't constantly replanting trees over and over again in the same spot without digging up the stump ridiculous?

So is smacking one side of the truck and having the entire thing pop out of the sky as evenly sectioned logs. The realistic argument is bogus, seriously, Bioxx himself has stated that by itselfit is not a justifiable reason for changing something. If you're looking for totally realistic tree-choppin, best to go chop a real tree :3 

 

You're last suggestion I like, a lit forge can check for access to the sky and then when it's raining and go cold, replicating this mechanic would be possible for log piles. I added a "damp" stage between freshly cut and drying in my earlier post. Whenever an uncovered log pile gets rained on it reverts all the wood inside to damp.

 

IMO anything more complex is splitting hairs and adds redundancy and tedium.

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As a person (see hillbilly) who lives in the boonies and heats their house via fire in the winter; I would say your a bit... reversed.

 

The heartwood seems to ignite more easily than the sapwood, and bark. By experience, cut firewood actually burns much faster and hotter than a large log, which we can leave burning most of the night without concern.

 

And of course, you are dead on with the need for seasoning, though leaving wood out in the rain really doesn't matter much. Unless its submerged for a long period of time, only the surface of stacked logs tends to get wet, and that will dry rather quickly. It can be tossed directly into an active fire with a coating of snow, and it will strip away all moisture rather easily. Though, obviously, you don't use the dampened wood to start the fire (hence the sticks)

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@Khalkists

Your use of pronouns (though unspecific) leads me to believe that you are saying I am the one who is reversed. Perhaps you did not understand the context of my comment on surface area and volume. I was responding to someone who said that cut wood burns longer than uncut logs. I am well aware that cut wood catches fire easier, burns hotter and faster. I was correcting the player who wrongly stated that cutting up wood would get you a longer burn time. We are both in agreement here, as well as correct. No harm done.

 

In regards to having logs get wet from the rain, I understand that properly stacked wood will shed water and generally not be affected by rainfall, but this is a game, not real life, and balanced game play takes priority over simulated reality.

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Game balance is determined by the developers on how ideas and tech trees are implemented.

 

You can take a good idea and implement it poorly and it can ruin game balance. That didn't mean the idea itself was bad.

 

Fundamentally wood piles are much like crops. You do something now, and expect reward much later. How much work and how much reward is up to the devs

 

If the devs think its worth implementing that people should have to cover their woodpiles (a easy task), they can implement it. If so how much penalty when it rains is also up to them

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Covered wood piles is an interesting idea.

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Covered wood piles is an interesting idea.

I Like the idea of needing to cover the area where we store the wood.

I would even go so far as proposing decaying.

In Real Life if you just leave a whole bunch of logs under the weather for a extended period of time it start to rot.

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