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PhineasWynd

Easy to Implement Ideas

48 posts in this topic

We have one of those too. It's called a javelin. It may not do a lot, but it is a ranged stone-age weapon.

Javelins don't work against skeletons, and the last time I checked, you can't throw hammers.

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theese are really easy to implement.

Ok, I'll bite. How would you go about implementing them?

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Ok, I'll bite. How would you go about implementing them?

e.g. mine gas:

Make one new block that gets distributed like ore. When layed free it emits gas, simmilar to water blocks emitting water. When gas touches a torch it ignites, possibly causing an explosion. This might make you want to carry around a caged bird while mining.

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Csiler2 - I get that...but in that case, protein should be changed to meat/fish, and soybeans should increase the vegetable bar.  Also, our ancestors didn't eat according to a food pyramid either.  They ate what was available and what they craved.  They followed their noses as far as food went.  Interestingly enough, there's a lot of evidence that suggests that, in the absence of processed food, children given a large range of possible natural foods will use their olfactory system to choose foods which better meet their nutritional needs than those selected by a parent.  So, yeah...it turns out that animals don't really 'think' about or analyze their food needs so much as they smell things, and then let their bodies provide impulses to either eat or avoid those foods.

 

Regardless...soybeans are vegetables.  If the five groups I proposed are unsuitable, then so is 'protein', a concept that is far more modern than fat.  So, make protein into meat/fish, move soybeans into vegetables (or keep soybeans in meat, but move potatoes to grains).  I don't really care what model is used as long as its used consistently.  Personally, I'd love to see the model I discussed above implemented invisibly.  Instead of having food bars that you can see, I'd prefer a health bar which displays a line representing current maximum health in relationship to actual maximum health.  In such a situation, the player could see that they are malnourished (in the same way that a human can feel the effects of mal-nourishment), but without knowing exactly what they are low on.  Then, they can try to eat a different range of foods until something works.  It would be like anvil working a bit, but for diet.  In the end, each player would develop a different set of foods based on location which meet all the nutritional needs...you know...just like all of our ancestors did.  Our ancestors developed diets that included all the necessary nutrients without having an idea what those nutrients were (no concept of vitamin A, or vitamin C [the discovery of which was barely more than 100 years ago], etc.)

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our ancestors didn't eat according to a food pyramid either. They ate what was available and what they craved. They followed their noses as far as food went. Interestingly enough, there's a lot of evidence that suggests that, in the absence of processed food, children given a large range of possible natural foods will use their olfactory system to choose foods which better meet their nutritional needs than those selected by a parent. So, yeah...it turns out that animals don't really 'think' about or analyze their food needs so much as they smell things, and then let their bodies provide impulses to either eat or avoid those foods.

Heh, this amuses me. Not to be offensive in any way, but some times the completely opposite perspective of "city folks" and what they're knowledgable about (for instance, write software or whatever your specific job is) vs what I'm knowledgable about as a farmer (basically everything to do with food) gives me chuckles. It goes both ways, many many times I've learned from "city folks" about a bajillion things that seem common knowledge to them. However some times it seems bizarre that many people really do not know jack about nutrition or food, one of the most basic needs we have as a human. Again I mean no offense and I'm not talking about anyone specific here, I just think it's interesting.

Personally, I'd love to see the model I discussed above implemented invisibly. Instead of having food bars that you can see, I'd prefer a health bar which displays a line representing current maximum health in relationship to actual maximum health. In such a situation, the player could see that they are malnourished (in the same way that a human can feel the effects of mal-nourishment), but without knowing exactly what they are low on. Then, they can try to eat a different range of foods until something works. It would be like anvil working a bit, but for diet. In the end, each player would develop a different set of foods based on location which meet all the nutritional needs...you know...just like all of our ancestors did.

This strikes a good balance. You have a realistic system without breaking immersion.
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 Personally, I'd love to see the model I discussed above implemented invisibly.  Instead of having food bars that you can see, I'd prefer a health bar which displays a line representing current maximum health in relationship to actual maximum health.  In such a situation, the player could see that they are malnourished (in the same way that a human can feel the effects of mal-nourishment), but without knowing exactly what they are low on.  Then, they can try to eat a different range of foods until something works.

The only problems I see is:

1. Your nutrition goes down 24/7, so players might get a bit paranoid as they see the bar for their 'actual' heath dwindle day by day.

2. You're nutrition would nearly never be 100%, so all foods will increase your nutrition, meaning that pretty much any food you eat will increase your nutrition, so you can't really 'test out' what you need to eat.

3. it will be extremely hard impossible to know what nutrition you lack most and what you have most.

 

However, of these three problems, #1 can't really be called a problem.

For #2, and #3, all you need to do is eat every food group you can at every meal, and when you get a new food group that you didn't have before, eat a lot of that to fill up the food group you previously couldn't fill.

 

So, I like this idea very much.

But rather than a line on the health bar, I'd prefer it if the hunger bar was different colours.

Say, green when you have full nutrition, black/red when your nutrition is empty, with shades in between.

So you can't really tell if a food you just ate increased you nutrition or not unless you are really perspective, but you can still relative tell your overall nutrition.

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The only problems I see is:1. Your nutrition goes down 24/7, so players might get a bit paranoid as they see the bar for their 'actual' heath dwindle day by day.2. You're nutrition would nearly never be 100%, so all foods will increase your nutrition, meaning that pretty much any food you eat will increase your nutrition, so you can't really 'test out' what you need to eat.3. it will be extremely hard impossible to know what nutrition you lack most and what you have most.However, of these three problems, #1 can't really be called a problem.For #2, and #3, all you need to do is eat every food group you can at every meal, and when you get a new food group that you didn't have before, eat a lot of that to fill up the food group you previously couldn't fill.So, I like this idea very much.But rather than a line on the health bar, I'd prefer it if the hunger bar was different colours.Say, green when you have full nutrition, black/red when your nutrition is empty, with shades in between.So you can't really tell if a food you just ate increased you nutrition or not unless you are really perspective, but you can still relative tell your overall nutrition.

Yes I prefer that style of health bar. I cannot remember the specific word for that... Some one mentioned it in a thread requesting when temperature be changed you wouldn't not have a "bar" telling you how cold/hot you are but icy crystals form at the edges of your vision when you're cold and red heat and blur when you're dying of heat exaustion. Much more immersive!
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@jacob4408

Thanks für the scolding, but why did you not quote the 5th line where I already appologize for my mistake?

 

Didn't mean it as a scolding. That's why I had the :) in there. You asked for correction if you were wrong so I was simply trying to provide that feedback. Sorry if it came across differently than I intended it.

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Here are my 'easy to implement' suggestions:

 

1) More much significant wounding. The slowness effect from foot-hits is barely noticable.

2) Climbable rope or rope ladders that can be deployed from above and propogate downwards.

3) Metal tool rods for higher-tier tools. It just seems weird that endgame tools are still made from sticks.

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2) Climbable rope or rope ladders that can be deployed from above and propogate downwards.

Extrafirma

 

 

 

3) Metal tool rods for higher-tier tools. It just seems weird that endgame tools are still made from sticks.

I think higher-tier metal tools have too much durability as it is.

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Javelins don't work against skeletons, and the last time I checked, you can't throw hammers.

 

If Javelins don't work against skeletons, then why do they die when I throw a javelin at them in survival mode on my test world? I one-shotted them, which doesn't seem right, but I was in survival and they are dead. 

 

Csiler2 - I get that...but in that case, protein should be changed to meat/fish, and soybeans should increase the vegetable bar.  Also, our ancestors didn't eat according to a food pyramid either.  They ate what was available and what they craved.  They followed their noses as far as food went.  Interestingly enough, there's a lot of evidence that suggests that, in the absence of processed food, children given a large range of possible natural foods will use their olfactory system to choose foods which better meet their nutritional needs than those selected by a parent.  So, yeah...it turns out that animals don't really 'think' about or analyze their food needs so much as they smell things, and then let their bodies provide impulses to either eat or avoid those foods.

 

Regardless...soybeans are vegetables.  If the five groups I proposed are unsuitable, then so is 'protein', a concept that is far more modern than fat.  So, make protein into meat/fish, move soybeans into vegetables (or keep soybeans in meat, but move potatoes to grains).  I don't really care what model is used as long as its used consistently.  Personally, I'd love to see the model I discussed above implemented invisibly.  Instead of having food bars that you can see, I'd prefer a health bar which displays a line representing current maximum health in relationship to actual maximum health.  In such a situation, the player could see that they are malnourished (in the same way that a human can feel the effects of mal-nourishment), but without knowing exactly what they are low on.  Then, they can try to eat a different range of foods until something works.  It would be like anvil working a bit, but for diet.  In the end, each player would develop a different set of foods based on location which meet all the nutritional needs...you know...just like all of our ancestors did.  Our ancestors developed diets that included all the necessary nutrients without having an idea what those nutrients were (no concept of vitamin A, or vitamin C [the discovery of which was barely more than 100 years ago], etc.)

 

I think Protein should stay as it is because it's a special case. Technically fish is meat, but our ancestors separated them for cultural and historical reasons rather than for nutritional and biological purposes. I think it has something to do with the idea that fish don't look like poultry, cows, pigs, deer, et al.

 

I don't have a problem with Soybeans adding to the protein bar. They've been an important asian crop since prehistory and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been recognized for a long time that they can 'replace' animal-based meat in diets without causing practitioners to experience protein deficiency. I was actually really surprised that soybeans were in TFC and suspect it's because 1) They wanted to add a crop that they knew most of the players would instantly recognize from asia (most crops in the game are from the Americas or Europe) 2)The devs recognized that soy is traditionally an important crop and felt it should be included because of this 3) They wanted players to have the option to go completely vegan.Technically there are a lot of 'mistakes' in the classifications of the food. Botanically soybeans, green beans, bell peppers, squash, and tomato are all fruits, not vegetables. Culinarily speaking though, all are considered vegetables, except soybeans in certain forms, such as tofu. I see the mislabeling of soybean and the other not vegetables as recognizing their culinary uses rather than accurate scientific classification.

 

So, other than your personal preference for how your system implements nutrition, what are the gameplay benefits to your system versus what's been created by the developers? Right now I see some very obvious flaws to your implementation that would probably frustrate players more than add to their enjoyment of the game. For example, you treat malnutrition as if it's just one thing, when it's really a group of conditions related because they express a deficiency in an area of nutrition. Someone with Scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) is going to present with symptoms different than someone with Vitamin A deficiency. The current system reflects different forms of deficiency by giving us different nutrition bars, so we know where we're deficient, with yours, we have to guess with no idea which food will help or if we even have access to it. So we can either waste food trying to figure out where we're deficient or waste time scouring the world trying to find something that does help us. That doesn't sound fun at all.People not only 'sniffed' out the foods they needed, but ate them after associating those foods with 'curing' ailments. For example, we didn't know anything about nutrition or vitamin C, but we knew citrus fruits cured the disease scurvy after associating them with alleviating the symptoms. These kinds of associations are what lead humans to a roughly healthy diet over the ages. 

 

Remember, the devs have always said they're going for believability and playability over accuracy. I don't see enough benefit in the case for believability or playability with the change of the food system from what it is to the proposed 'more accurate' system or hidden system over the potentials for frustration for reasons I stated above. 

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e.g. mine gas:

Make one new block that gets distributed like ore. When layed free it emits gas, simmilar to water blocks emitting water. When gas touches a torch it ignites, possibly causing an explosion. This might make you want to carry around a caged bird while mining.

 

The point of this thread is to suggest things that are easy to implement, in other words, things that do not require you to come up with completely new events among other things. epee1221 was merely making that point. In other words: yes, it's an 'easy idea' in the sense that it's easy to come up with (this isn't the first time it's been brought up), and it is also easy to say 'oh you just do this and this and BAM it's working!' but the reality of the matter is that it's not that simple.

 

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea or anything by the way, I'm just saying I don't see how it fits in with this particular thread of 'easy to implement ideas'. Honestly, a lot of the suggestions in this thread really don't fit in with the theme of the thread, since a lot of people are talking about things being overhauled (for the most part) completely. This basically turned into a general suggestion thread extremely quickly IMO.

 

As for the idea itself, it could add another level to mining, especially if they added ways to detect gas leaks, and a way to handle them. I wouldn't mind having them implement it someday, but I think there's other ideas I'd rather see being worked on such as the animal's requiring feed and water.

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The point of this thread is to suggest things that are easy to implement, in other words, things that do not require you to come up with completely new events among other things. 

 

Yay, someone understands what this is supposed to be about! The devs only have so much time on their hands, so we need things that would take very little of their time, and yet make the mod significantly more interesting, or have more meta-aspects (animals running away, you can get people to chase them to an area, etc.), or just more challenge.

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Keep soybeans with protein then (though I still think having protein as a category but not fat is absurd), but then move potatoes to increase grains.  The one thing that grains generally have in common is that they provide more carbohydrates per gram than anything else, followed by protein.  The same is true of a potato.  What I want is for the food system to make intuitive sense to me, as someone who eats food.  No one I know counts potatoes as one of the daily required vegetables.  Heck, on the food pyramid, potatoes are lumped in with grains.  People eat potatoes and grains for the same reason, regardless of whether they have a concept or word for carbohydrates.

 

As for whether you'd like the system I proposed, or find it needlessly frustrating...well, that's how some people feel about using an anvil.  The point is that nutrition, like metallurgy, requires awareness, experimentation and a willingness to learn.  If you don't believe me...look around.  We live at a time when most people in the West have access to tremendous amounts of food, and still many of them can't manage to nourish their bodies.  

 

Staying nourished isn't as easy as just reading some bars and then eating those foods.  We have threads going on suggesting adding goals...well, considering that for many human beings in RL, attaining a balanced healthy diet is a goal, why not in TFC?  Right now, it's as easy as finding a fruit tree, one bunch of vegetables and one bunch of grain, a couple of cows, and you're done.  There's no incentive to diversify one's diet.  The existence of more than one vegetable type is essentially just 'flavor text'.  I'm merely suggesting making every food item unique in its effects (as they are).  Even according to your own example...getting scurvy doesn't mean you should 'eat fruit'.  Sure, there are correlations that one can make without nutritional information between foods and cures.  The same is possible in my system.  It's not beyond possibility to at some point later add specific named debuffs which alert one as to the nature of their deficiency...of course, that would require coding of critical vitamins.  In the meantime, it wouldn't be so hard to find a working diet for your area.

 

For example, one could, once setup, bring a variety of food items together, and wait until they have only 10% of their hunger filled.  They could then eat different combinations of foods until they find one that would increase their health total.  Chances are it wouldn't even take long, and then they'd know.  In my system it would be easier to stay fed, simply because almost all foods would provide more than one aspect of nutrition.

 

Now perhaps there would be long periods of time where you weren't fully nourished as you took the time to scour the land for more food types (incentive to gather more than 3 food types and some cows), but that's not a bad thing anymore than having to range 500 blocks away to find Tin is.  

 

To me, the motto that TFC is what MC survival should have been reinforces the idea that it is meant to strongly emphasize the survival aspect.  Well, after fresh water, food is the biggest survival issue, so I don't see why it shouldn't be handled with the same complexity and attention to detail as metallurgy.  Right now it's too easy.  After the first 3 months of game time, unless you've picked a very hard start or are generally inattentive, there's no reason you can't be fully nourished all the time.  Just look at the US population to see that it's not that easy to be well nourished, even when there's food to be had.  It takes the desire to prioritize nutrition and a bit of attention and awareness.

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If Javelins don't work against skeletons, then why do they die when I throw a javelin at them in survival mode on my test world? I one-shotted them, which doesn't seem right, but I was in survival and they are dead. 

Um... no idea how the heck that works, but javelins and bows do't work on skeletons, as they give piercing damage, a type of damage that don't effect skeletons

 

From the Wiki:

 

Piercing Dealt By Posted Image Arrows Posted Image Javelins Posted Image Knives Posted Image Skeletons Posted Image Spiders

 

So... don't know what happened with you... probably a bug.

 

I thought throwing rock would be simple to add, and really, being unable to do a ranged attack on the only ranged mob in the game is pretty silly if you ask me.

 

 

There's no incentive to diversify one's diet.  The existence of more than one vegetable type is essentially just 'flavor text'.  I'm merely suggesting making every food item unique in its effects (as they are). 

True...... the only thing I really try to get lots of is fruit, since there is a limit to when you can get them and how much you can get at a time, but the rest?... yea.

I'd like the foods to be different, not only in what they do but how you get them and when you can get them.

But... we kinda seem to be derailing from the 'easy to implement ideas' topic.... like, badly

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As for whether you'd like the system I proposed, or find it needlessly frustrating...well, that's how some people feel about using an anvil.  The point is that nutrition, like metallurgy, requires awareness, experimentation and a willingness to learn. .

 

I realize that different people enjoy different things but it seems that the majority of people attracted to Minecraft find the crafting portion to be very enjoyable.  As for me, the anvil and the complicated crafting is fun while micromanaging my diet....very not fun.  If I forge an RedSteel breastplate  I know my skills have progressed, I can see the different anvils and tools around my shop, I remember the time investment and I have a great sense of accomplishment because of the lasting result that I have achieved and can show off to my friends. :D

 

If I spends hours to perfectly balance my diet, I know I'll just be hungry again tomorrow. :(

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True, but you'll also know that corn, squash, beans, and rice will keep you fairly well nourished by themselves, among other combinations.  As soon as you find a combination you have available then you're sorted.  Meanwhile, other people can continue to experiment to find the optimal nutritional profile.  Just like the anvil, you can find a series of strokes that works for you and just repeat that, regardless of whether its optimal, or you can keep experimenting until you develop for each item the successful pattern utilizing the fewest number of strokes.  

 

Anyway, there's ways to implement a more complex dietary system which rewards those who work on it without providing too large a penalty for those who are satisfied with 'not hungry'.  

 

I personally don't see the difference between search around for various ores, then mixing them at the right percentages to create alloys, then paying close attention while you heat them and work them, again having to find the right combinations to do so without wasting too much fuel...and searching around for various foods, and trying to mix them in different quantities to obtain different degrees of nutrition.  The essential activity of search, acquire, experiment and succeed is there.  In essence, what I've been talking about would merely make the food aspect of the game slightly more challenging for a little bit longer.  It wouldn't require everyone to micromanage it, but would reward those who want to.  Essentially that's in general what I like in a sandbox game...minor penalties for overlooking things, and minor rewards for putting in the time.

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I agree wholeheartedly with mdtexeira.

People will always shoot down new ideas as "too complex" or "too tedious" (I laugh at this one, especially when you consider the difficulty in finding graphite)

As long as the new system is balanced and provides functionality for both hardcore and casual gamers then it is certainly worth consideration.

 

What I like about the new dietary system is that you are required to think about your food intake. I think it's favorable to include mechanics which rely on real life skill (learning, memory, reaction times) more than in-game skills. A closer relationship is built between the player and game because you will directly notice your improvement at completing certain challenges. Equally important is that you will have affinities for certain tasks just like in real life.

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I personally don't see the difference between search around for various ores, then mixing them at the right percentages to create alloys, then paying close attention while you heat them and work them, again having to find the right combinations to do so without wasting too much fuel...and searching around for various foods, and trying to mix them in different quantities to obtain different degrees of nutrition.  The essential activity of search, acquire, experiment and succeed is there.

 

That is a perfectly accurate assessment of the procedure leading up to the goal.  The difference (to me at least) is the result of all this activity. With smithing the result is a tangible something I can see, use, display, wield for a long time as the payoff for all my time and effort.  With nutrition, the payoff is...I get hungry again in a few hours and have to do it all over again.

 

I'm not militantly opposed to a deeper nutrition system, I just question whether most players would see it as an improvement or a detriment.

 

 

@dutchraptor - I don't think anyone is simply dismissing this as "too complex" but rather doubting whether it make the game more enjoyable or whether the result is worth the coding investment.

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What if the payoff was a small buff that would last for a decent while?  I imagine that nutrition dropping below a certain point would cause a decrease in ability...within a certain range everything would be normal, and for those who micromanage, a small buff could be attained...maybe a slight increase to speed (something that would benefit all activities other than forge work).  Again, I don't feel there should be a huge benefit, but I feel that anything that the player pays significant attention to could ideally yield some benefit.  

 

If the system was designed well, it would be such that players who don't want to worry about it could still, with just a small amount of experimentation, get to a point where it's a non-issue.  I mean, we all get through that patch without cheese just fine, don't we?  Having max health and a little buff isn't a requirement, just something that is attainable.  It would only be a detriment if the player had the dual neuroses of being a fastidious completionist AND someone who dislikes micromanaging.  Then again, why would such a person play TFC at all.

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Absolutely, if the deeper nutritional system was a something like forging that a player could opt out of and still play the game that would be optimal.  I just don't want to be required to spend anymore time on nutrition than I have to. 

 

My strong feelings may come from the fact that I'm in the middle of weight cut to make a lower weight class before my BJJ tournament. Losing 4-5 lbs a week right now. I obsess over nutritional balance all day in RL.  Don't want to do it in the game as well. :blink:

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With nutrition, the payoff is...I get hungry again in a few hours and have to do it all over again.

 

Also, you have to do it again every time you log off on a server for a couple of hours and the food rots and disappears.

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1) Whittling interface: now you, too, can use a knife and log to make bowls, sticks, and . . . boomerangs?

 

2) Caltrops: Craft out of stone (wood? see above) or metal, placed on ground. Work like rasberry bushes, but they only hit feet.

 

3) Removal of the need to craft the crafting table, just start out with a 3x3 grid. Am I the only one who finds it odd that, before getting your first saw, you don't have it in you to make a fishing pole, but after you're willing to lug around a cubic meter of wood just incase you feel like doing so?

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