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Omicron

New Skill: Mining

17 posts in this topic

Considering this is Minecraft, and that procuring ore is such a large part of the TFC experience, I think it would make sense to have a skill tied to mining.

 

Skill increase condition:

Everytime you break a block of ore or mineral with a pickaxe. Normal rocks don't count.

 

Skill bonus:

Reduced chance for false negative results when using the prospector's pick.

 

Justification:

The concept is nice and simple, makes logical sense (as you get more familiar with the ore while digging it, you will have an easier time locating it in the future) and avoids messing with ore amounts or values. An experienced miner will be able to pin down the location of an ore vein with ease regardless of whether or not the prospector's pick will yield false negatives; might as well reward the player for his dedication to the profession of mining by incrementally lessening this minor annoyance. The reward of this skill is therefore valuable without causing side effects, like for example an increase in the ore value from 25 to 26 units would.

 

Unfortunately I am not sure how much effort it would be to implement in this case.

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I'm not sure it makes sense to have mining (physically ripping rocks apart) improve your skill at finding the ore veins...Maybe the mining level could affect something else, for example:- Mining speed- Chance of cave-ins- Durability lossI think having false negatives for prospecting is a good idea, as it makes it take real skill to do well, instead of arbitrary game stats. Not sure about having a skill level affect that - It gives an even playing field for everyone as it is.

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I'm not sure it makes sense to have mining (physically ripping rocks apart) improve your skill at finding the ore veins...

 

I don't think he means that mining the ore will increase your skill because you mined it, but rather as a means of leveling it up. I think that he's saying if you find ore, you basically should be rewarded for your efforts by making it easier to find ore the next time as there will be less false negatives. One problem with that is exposed ore, so they would have to make it so all ore under a specific level gives the XP while the surface/exposed ores do not.

 

I think having false negatives for prospecting is a good idea, as it makes it take real skill to do well, instead of arbitrary game stats. Not sure about having a skill level affect that - It gives an even playing field for everyone as it is.

 

They could make it reduce the chance for it to be a false negative by a rather low amount, lets say 5% or so. That's assuming the stones that give false negatives aren't determined upon terrain generation. I have no idea how it works currently so it may be way too much work to be worth it, anyway. It might be determined upon clicking the block, so who knows.

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 I have no idea how it works currently so it may be way too much work to be worth it, anyway. It might be determined upon clicking the block, so who knows.

The whole idea of a prospector's pick is that you pickup samples, hit rocks and listen for specific sounds and echoes.

False negatives mean that you run into a crack or fault in the rocks that distorts the sounds or blocks faraway echoes.

 

Simple version:

When you apply the prospector's pick onto a block, the block's coordinates are used to generate a random number.

That number is compared with a threshold.  If it doesn't clear the threshold, no actual search for ore is done, returning a potential false negative, and reducing lag by a tiny amount.

 

If it does clear the threshold, all blocks within a certain distance from the player are inspected. The ore with the highest score is then reported. 

 

The actual threshold value is a magic number in the prospector's pick code.  It should be relatively easy to turn that into a dynamic number  influenced by the player's mining or prospecting skill, and reduce the chance of false negatives.

 

On the other hand I feel that frequent propick use within short intervals should actually temporarily increase the threshold, repeated use would then numb your senses.

 

True skill is found in moderation, after all.

 

You need to concentrate and listen carefully.  Hurrying should affect your effective skill.

 

Another possible benefit: a higher prospecting/mining skill could reduce the wear on your prospector's pick.

 

Cheers,

IM

 

[Edit: removed specific values to comply with the creators' intentions]

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Why doesn't ore drop XP anyway?

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When you apply the prospector's pick onto a block, the block's coordinates are used to generate a random number.

That number is compared with a threshold.  If it doesn't clear the threshold, no actual search for ore is done, returning a potential false negative, and reducing lag by a tiny amount.

 

If it does clear the threshold, all blocks within a certain distance from the player are inspected. The ore with the highest score is then reported. 

 

The actual threshold value is a magic number in the prospector's pick code.  It should be relatively easy to turn that into a dynamic number  influenced by the player's mining or prospecting skill, and reduce the chance of false negatives.

[Edit: removed specific values to comply with the creators' intentions]

 

Yeah, dude, poor form. Appreciate that you removed actual numbers, but we do not talk about the man behind the curtain here. We like Oz to stay magical.

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I suggest, that a higher skill causes less hunger while mining. Maybe increases the speed of mining (which in my oppinion is still to fast). And most important decreases the chance of cave-ins, which also could happen muche more frequent.

 

As on how to optain skill levels, as much it makes sense to realise a learning by doing system, people just love the WoW-style level what you can efford system.

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You could have two separate skills. Prospecting and mining. Use of prospectors pick could decrease false negative chance or could give a more accurate reading. Mining could increase mining speed (please), it could give you a chance of getting a higher quality ore, reduce chances of cave ins, or I guess give more output when mining rock.

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I should note that this isn't actually a suggestion aimed specifically at the prospector's pick.

 

I just wanted to suggest a potential use for a mining skill. I came up with a number of possible options, and this one seemed to be the one with the least impact on existing balance paradigms. Therefore it struck me as the one with the best chances of being implemented.

 

If changing the prospector's pick's mechanics is undesired, there are other options for a mining skill, many of which have been mentioned above by others. For example a minor increase in mining speed (though honestly that wouldn't really be a mining skill as much as it would be a rocksmashing skill), or minor chances to drop a second identical ore piece, or minor chances to drop an ore piece of one quality tier higher instead. Of course, these options have balance implications.

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The way OP presents mining, I wouldn't mind it. I especially like the fact that benefits from the skill would be subtle - helpful, but without encouraging grinding for the sake of faster grinding. Skill gains being limited to mining only veins of ores/minerals also would limit said grinding here. In regards to that I must note that I'd be quite disappointed if mining would lead to stuff like better ore gains or faster mining.

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The whole idea of a prospector's pick is that you pickup samples, hit rocks and listen for specific sounds and echoes.

False negatives mean that you run into a crack or fault in the rocks that distorts the sounds or blocks faraway echoes.

 

I always assumed the Propick was TFC's equivalent of a Geologist's hammer which is used to split rock and expose a fresh rock face for more accurate identification, not for creating some kind of seesmic ping. The limited range of the Propick simulates the player coming across successively larger flecks of mineral within the freshly exposed rock before they come across the main orebody.Example: You come across tiny flecks of mineral on your first hit. Then you hit another rock some distance over and find no flecks. You begin checking in the other direction and begin finding more/slightly larger flecks before you find the main orebody where the ore chunks are actually large enough for you to process.I like the idea of prospecting and mining skills. A logical argument for better prospecting would be that the player is getting better at recognizing geologic formations and the movements/relationships of rocks due to tectonic and erosional forces from past prospecting experiences. I like the idea of a logarithmic relationship between your skill level and the number of false positives. You get lots of false positives starting out, but you get a lot better during the first few levels while seeing only minimal improvement once you become really skilled. That means you'll still see false negatives at higher levels, just less frequently. Similarly, a player could get longer life out of picks because their increased experience with mining means they have a better understanding of the most efficient way to mine out the rock.Edited to add propick example

Edited by csiler2
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Mining skill... Hmm. Maybe increase the value of the mined ore? One point in the skill increases the value by 0.01%. 400 points to raise 25 to 26. Simulates the miner getting better at not hitting the actual high concentrate ore to stone dusts and unusable chips of the ore. Or the skill gives a chance to drop a usable 5 point ore every with the chance being (2.skill)/skill+3200 . At 400 it's still a 1/5 chance to get a chip for every ore. 1/20 chance to drop a second drop on non-metal ores.

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Mining skill... Hmm. Maybe increase the value of the mined ore? One point in the skill increases the value by 0.01%. 400 points to raise 25 to 26. Simulates the miner getting better at not hitting the actual high concentrate ore to stone dusts and unusable chips of the ore. Or the skill gives a chance to drop a usable 5 point ore every with the chance being (2.skill)/skill+3200 . At 400 it's still a 1/5 chance to get a chip for every ore. 1/20 chance to drop a second drop on non-metal ores.

 

No, bad idea. You get extra headcache along with a single bloody metal unit that you can't possibly dispose of anywhere. Not to mention that it's a "rich get richer" situation in a nutshell, exploitable too.

 

I was already about to say that we shouldn't count something like coal veins into the mining skill increasing. Because any descent coal vein can boost you so high up there, while also feeling like a horrible grind in the process.

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Well, that's why I propose the second way. 5 point metals. It stacks up to 64 if you wish. Useful to fill that 15 gap from rich ores.

 

... You could smelt and give it to someone with a high metalsmith skill and get a better grade tools.

 

How big is the biggest coal vein? I'm currently on a limonite vein and I've extracted 12 stacks of limonite and counting. That is only a 11% chance to get a chip. I don't even know what to do with those limonites, I only have a copper pick. Can you cast it from a forge to a mold?

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[...] I don't even know what to do with those limonites, I only have a copper pick. Can you cast it from a forge to a mold?

 

Limonite is Iron, so you'll have to make a bloomery to smelt it into a bloom then split that bloom with an anvil and work it into bars.

 

You can watch the third episode of Memeporable's guides located in the guides section if you'd rather watch than read: click.

 

I suggest watching the episode as well as reading those pages to get a better understanding of how it works. :)

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Well, that's why I propose the second way. 5 point metals. It stacks up to 64 if you wish. Useful to fill that 15 gap from rich ores.

 

... You could smelt and give it to someone with a high metalsmith skill and get a better grade tools.

 

How big is the biggest coal vein? I'm currently on a limonite vein and I've extracted 12 stacks of limonite and counting. That is only a 11% chance to get a chip. I don't even know what to do with those limonites, I only have a copper pick. Can you cast it from a forge to a mold?

 

Coal veins can be absolutely enormous. I have found veins that were EASILY over 50*100*20 blocks...It's a bit crazy. I also think only ores should count towards any mining skill.

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