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dutchraptor

Fire setting

11 posts in this topic

Well I was thinking about game progression and I thought up a mechanic that should be both believable (within a medieval context) as well as allowing for an interesting progression.

 

Currently in the game, every single ore is obtainable with a copper pickaxe (if I am not mistaken) which while it does make sense, there could be a nice new mechanic.

What if certain rock types, or ore types (whichever the devs would fancy) where unobtainable without a certain level of pickaxe. Copper could only be obtained directly with a copper pickaxe or higher etc

 

Traditionally, fire-setting was used extensively up until the invention of explosives in somewhere in the middle ages. This involves placing a fire near the vein or rock wall you want to break up and then quickly dousing it with water to make it crack through thermal shock, though the water is not a requirement.

I think the theme of fire-setting falls very well with TFC, especially if it were implemented similar to how a charcoal pit is done. Maybe small-medium sized underground areas could be excavated using fire-setting.

 

Well I don't really have a firm idea in my head other than that. What do you guys think, would it suit TFC? If it does would you want it to be an alternative to mining or a requirement for something?

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I don't actually know much about the hardness of ORES but I do know that trying to use a copper pick axe on rhyolite (let alone basalt or granite) would be an exercise in futility. So I'm totally for these sort of limitations as I don't think it's especially tedious, and it creates a real reason to tier up, which I think is lacking. (Metal buckets yeah, but other than that bronze really does everything and is even easier to craft)

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Certain modes could require a higher tier of metal to use.  Instead of being able to access all the modes on any metal hoe you might need to make one from a tier two metal to see the available nutrients (I figured that was the most likely mode to hold back, since by the time you are working with better alloys you probably have figured out when plants are ready to harvest).  The detail mode of the chisel could also require better metals. Tools that don't have multiple modes could return some/all of the materials when a chiseled block is removed.

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I would like to see a simple limitation like in Terraria

Bronze pickaxe to mine iron ores, etcs

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I'd be very much not happy with it. Forcing players to go through every tier if they want to, say, make one colored steel bucket would be a horrible drag and a big turn-off. Though possibly having to use iron (or better) pickaxe to mine through the hardest types of stone without suffering additional durability hit and mining slow-down could be interesting, while stil not forcing overly much on a player.

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I'd be very much not happy with it. Forcing players to go through every tier if they want to, say, make one colored steel bucket would be a horrible drag and a big turn-off. Though possibly having to use iron (or better) pickaxe to mine through the hardest types of stone without suffering additional durability hit and mining slow-down could be interesting, while stil not forcing overly much on a player.

Hence why I suggested that fire-setting could be used to obtain ores without the need for an appropriate pickaxe. The advantage is you can mine ores without a pickaxe, the disadvantage is that it takes a long time.

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I'd be very much not happy with it. Forcing players to go through every tier if they want to, say, make one colored steel bucket would be a horrible drag and a big turn-off.

 

Technically speaking, this is already the case. Colored steel buckets require steel, which requires a blast furnace, which requires wrought iron, which requires a bloomery, which requires a bronze anvil, which requires a copper anvil, which requires stone tools.

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I don't actually know much about the hardness of ORES but I do know that trying to use a copper pick axe on rhyolite (let alone basalt or granite) would be an exercise in futility. So I'm totally for these sort of limitations as I don't think it's especially tedious, and it creates a real reason to tier up, which I think is lacking. (Metal buckets yeah, but other than that bronze really does everything and is even easier to craft)

 

A large pain in the ass, yes. An exercise in futility? Most definitely not. It'd be pretty rough on the tip, and realistically, you'd want a pick and a solid hammer to impart as much momentum upon the point as possible (if you can't get the rock to yield, the copper is going to)

 

Physically speaking, a piece of swiss cheese with enough energy will break basalt. A copper pickaxe needs far less, especially with the massive amount of momentum your body can impart upon it.

Extreme examples of the principle are the ability to pierce steel with unjacketed lead projectiles (see: bullets), or straw piercing wood at tornadic velocities.

 

I wouldn't be upset by an increased durability cost to mining some of the harder igneous rocks with softer metals, but making it impossible isn't realistic, believable, or even rational.

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I don't actually know much about the hardness of ORES but I do know that trying to use a copper pick axe on rhyolite (let alone basalt or granite) would be an exercise in futility. So I'm totally for these sort of limitations as I don't think it's especially tedious, and it creates a real reason to tier up, which I think is lacking. (Metal buckets yeah, but other than that bronze really does everything and is even easier to craft)

I like the idea of possibly needing a certain tier of pickaxe to mine a type of stone (and any ore in that stone). So you could make it to redsteel using a copper pick, but it would be a pain to find the right mineral in the right stones.

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I like the idea of possibly needing a certain tier of pickaxe to mine a type of stone (and any ore in that stone). So you could make it to redsteel using a copper pick, but it would be a pain to find the right mineral in the right stones.

Intriguing concept, if balanced correctly. Perhaps instead of completely being unable to mine the stone if you have too low tier of a pickaxe, it's just slow. Even more interesting, what if the lower the tier, the higher the slowness penalty? Example: First off, just for simplicities sake, think of the four classes of stone as not geologically different but as tier 1, 2, 3a, and 3b. Starting with Sedimentary and ending with the two sub-types of Igneous. If you try to mine tier 1(sedimentary) stone with a tier 1 pick (copper), everything will be normal. However, if you take a tier 1 pick to tier 2 stone a minor mining speed penalty (say that 10 times fast) will be applied. Said mining speed penalty will increase as you try to use it on harder and harder stone types. This means that tier 3a stone will still be possible to mine with a tier 1 pick, but the penalty will be large enough that it would be a rather unpleasant job. However, the difference scales. What I mean is with a tier 2 pick (bronze), both tier 1 and 2 stone is at normal mining speed AND the penalties do not start until tier 3a, and the third level of penalty does not exist, since there is only two tiers of stone above said tier 2 pickaxe. Go to tier three (iron) and you only get a minor debuff on the only the absolute hardest stone.Finally, a tier 4 (steel) pickaxe receives no penalties at all. I am of the opinion that this would add both to gameplay and believability, without adding excessive tedium. P.S: if steel seems too laborious to indirectly encourage players to upgrade from iron, I would not be overtly opposed to lumping both types of igneous into the same stone tier for the purposes of this idea. So an iron pick axe is all you need to recive no mining speed penalty.P.P.S: I will post this in a separate topic if it "survives" a roughly a page of discussion.P.P.P.S: I claim the intellectual rights to the above content, except in the unlikely scenario that this EXACT conceptual idea has been posted in a topic on these forums. ;) Copyrighted under file 1816: 20Jcs/n07h/24Kar/92Evf0_B5****1ha13-ha-377[offtopic]^^^This is a four layer code with a bonus round. The spoiler below is the key to the code in riddle form. Important clues are italicized and minor clues are underlined. The bold/capitalized is purely aesthetic, I promise (basically where to raise your voice while speaking it).

"Mwuhahahaha,

numbers are very funny!Especially when you count.Which I like to do!But numbers don't count unless they are all about;The end result! And that's just what you'll be if you don't listen to me, Honey......_____________________________________________________________In fact you're so sweet, I got you a special treat. Here's the directions; go right, then left, another right, another left, and another right until you've LEFT your sane state of mind!You may say I'm random. Possiblely insane! But really, true randomness is impossible. Rest assured, there IS a method to my madness! Why so glum? You're no Dum Dum. This is as simple as one, two, three, four, and a five! Right?Well?! Have you lost your tongue? Do NOT make me repeat myself! I'm almost done talking, I'm just about done helping you out. Riddle me this, or I'll be in a pout; How will you give me my answer with lips so tight?I'm wasting my time. I'm done with you! Before I depart, I'll give you one last clue. You're no Hero, you're just a Zero! And you. Don't. Count."

Feel free to try and take a crack it if you wish :). However please PM me if you think you have solved a layer instead of posting so as to not ruin the fun for others! [/offtopic]

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Intriguing concept, if balanced correctly. Perhaps instead of completely being unable to mine the stone if you have too low tier of a pickaxe, it's just slow.Even more interesting, what if the lower the tier, the higher the slowness penalty?Example:First off, just for simplicities sake, think of the four classes of stone as not geologically different but as tier 1, 2, 3a, and 3b. Starting with Sedimentary and ending with the two sub-types of Igneous.If you try to mine tier 1(sedimentary) stone with a tier 1 pick (copper), everything will be normal. However, if you take a tier 1 pick to tier 2 stone a minor mining speed penalty (say that 10 times fast) will be applied. Said mining speed penalty will increase as you try to use it on harder and harder stone types. This means that tier 3a stone will still be possible to mine with a tier 1 pick, but the penalty will be large enough that it would be a rather unpleasant job.However, the difference scales. What I mean is with a tier 2 pick (bronze), both tier 1 and 2 stone is at normal mining speed AND the penalties do not start until tier 3a, and the third level of penalty does not exist, since there is only two tiers of stone above said tier 2 pickaxe.Go to tier three (iron) and you only get a minor debuff on the only the absolute hardest stone.Finally, a tier 4 (steel) pickaxe receives no penalties at all. 

I like this but would like to add that black steel should mine at least as fast as vanilla minecraft and blue/red steel should mine as fast as a efficiency enchanted pick.

I want more reasons to get to red/blue steel. I think this supper steel should be really fast. ( durability in it self is not reason enough to all the trouble that is to evolve to it.

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