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Gzack

Migration!

24 posts in this topic

Back in the dawn of man, humans were required to migrate, and I think that this should be implemented. Game and food will eventually run out, and you will be required to migrate, to say warmer climates? (Just thinking) Anyways, great mod!

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It would be quite hard because of all your chest full of ore.

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Well, guess what... there's no such thing on the real life as a "migration month of the year". Migration happens when life turns out too hard in a place. For example, when you run out of food or fuel in an area and you need it to live.

I don't see necesary to deliveratelly code conditions to force migration, it's the player's style what will create the conditions that force to migrate. If you play careful, trying to develop in a sustainable way, you will have little motivation that *forces* you to migrate, but you can migrate if you want.

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All I see happening is mobs will despawn and respawn seasonally to emulate migration, if seasons are added.

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Well, guess what... there's no such thing on the real life as a "migration month of the year". Migration happens when life turns out too hard in a place. For example, when you run out of food or fuel in an area and you need it to live.

I don't see necesary to deliveratelly code conditions to force migration, it's the player's style what will create the conditions that force to migrate. If you play careful, trying to develop in a sustainable way, you will have little motivation that *forces* you to migrate, but you can migrate if you want.

I see, that's a good point!
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It would be quite hard because of all your chest full of ore.

Perhaps certain animals could pull wagons or become pack animals.

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well because of the randomness that in the stone generation, it does take some searching to find the right rock deposit, so i can see like "mini migration" being possible if you happen to exhaust the area you are in.

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Can't say I'm a fan of this idea. :S

When you build a house, you put work into making it pretty and awesome.

Forcing migration will take all the pride factor out and you'll start seeing houses with minimalistic designs..

That said, persistent animals (which came with Minecraft 1.8 adventure update) has made it so game "runs out" already. Once an animal is killed it DOES respawn (and if it does, it's extremely rare as I've never had them come back after "de-gaming" an area.

That's why building livestock pens are so important.

All I see happening is mobs will despawn and respawn seasonally to emulate migration, if seasons are added.

And this sounds like it'd have an effect on penned livestock.

They already have a chance of glitching out of the pen as it is (maybe because of the height change?), this just sounds unrealistic.

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Can't say I'm a fan of this idea. :S

When you build a house, you put work into making it pretty and awesome.

Forcing migration will take all the pride factor out and you'll start seeing houses with minimalistic designs..

Keep in mind TFCraft isn't necessarily built on the same values as vanilla Minecraft (aka no emphasis on creativity) so it's totally possible that to preserve the realism you would be forced to move around a bit. And nobody said you couldn't come back for multiple trips of moving stuff!

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I agree with rabblerouser. I know this mod is suppose to be a total conversion but the creativity of this game is the reason most people play the game at first. Once more people want mods that add depth not rob them of possibilities. My question also with this game is, is it a game where we move from prehistoric man to modern man or a game of surviving and thriving in an unknown world. I always believed it was the latter as it never made sense to me that a single character could trace all of history. The ideas I have seen so far that reference to history are just ways of saying this what they did maybe we could do this rather than this is what they did we have to do this.

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I agree with rabblerouser. I know this mod is suppose to be a total conversion but the creativity of this game is the reason most people play the game at first. Once more people want mods that add depth not rob them of possibilities. My question also with this game is, is it a game where we move from prehistoric man to modern man or a game of surviving and thriving in an unknown world. I always believed it was the latter as it never made sense to me that a single character could trace all of history. The ideas I have seen so far that reference to history are just ways of saying this what they did maybe we could do this rather than this is what they did we have to do this.

Nobody is stopping you from making a 10-story chestnut palace with basalt brick floors. But you shouldn't be able to sustain your maximum production speed permanently, it's just not realistic. Obviously we can't have it all exactly like it is in reality, or you'd spend more time doing things in the game than you would real life and still hardly accomplish anything. We're calling for a better balance. If you want to be extremely productive, you'll have to migrate to the resources that enable you to do it. We're trying to break the traditional cycle of Minecraft where you harvest an entire forest, plant all the saplings so it will all regrow in a day, go on one mining trip and get just about everything you'll need, and then go on to do whatever. TFCraft is symbolic of the arduous work that was required back in the day to get anything productive done. It's a lesson, sort of how the lesson of Minecraft taught you how to survive, and how to fend for yourself.

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I'm not objecting against the fact that resources are almost too renewable however what does a nation or tribe or whatever do when run out of resources (excluding early man, and other nomads like gypsies) they either cut down on consumption or learn to get resources from a larger area. Resource management is an important part of this mod and don't think that's really management if you destroy an entire forest then leave for another area to destroy.

Additionally I was arguing number one against the loss of the ability to be creative the way people are which making giant castles that we don't need just to make ourselves feel BA I don't feel BA in my small little dirt hut that I would have to recreate every five minecraft days if we were forced to migrate. I would like to ask again is this a game of prehistoric evolution or of survival?

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I would like to ask again is this a game of prehistoric evolution or of survival?

What's wrong with both?

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I'm not objecting against the fact that resources are almost too renewable however what does a nation or tribe or whatever do when run out of resources (excluding early man, and other nomads like gypsies) they either cut down on consumption or learn to get resources from a larger area. Resource management is an important part of this mod and don't think that's really management if you destroy an entire forest then leave for another area to destroy.

More like, you would not be able to keep harvesting the same forest (there aren't many loggers who can say the trees grow fast enough to keep logging the same 10 sq miles), so you would have to either stop using so much woood or find wood someplace else while your initial forest regrows.

Also, I don't recommend making a dirt hut with this mod -_-

For me, just learning to work the anvil/forge makes me feel BA. But, I understand that I need to manage my wood stock before I can go and smelt the several tons of ore I've collected. And in order to do that, I must manage the forest I grew, but it's too easy to simply make a moderate-sized sycamore/hickory farm that will give you a constant supply of wood. I use sycamore for charcoal (it grows super fast), douglas fir for cooking, and hickory for when I need a kick of heat. I play with 3 other guys, and the roughly 30 trees we have planted grow fast enough to keep us all busy for days. We replant them as soon as we're done harvesting them. I like the feeling of progress but I don't think it feels very authentic, that's all.

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RogueHydra: Play Sid Meier's civilization instead then =P but I understand why it would be nice to have but that would need to be a separate and probably different mod as of right now this may be seen as a total game conversion but it's still the same game just longer with more depth and thats what I'm trying to get across here I don't think a complete repurposing of the game is what people are looking for. (Although it could work, maybe) (that reminded me of the taco commercial I watched a while ago ha what a strange mexican commercial =P not to be racist)

Jivix: there also aren't many minecraft players who logs in a whole ten miles. To repeat myself I'm not against resource management I think that is crucial for this mod, however I am against MIGRATION for reasons stated above.

I use the grass blocks they work fine. But you understand what I mean I don't want millions of small lean-to huts I want one ginormous castle.

To restate myself; resource management= :D , migration = <insert crying smiley face here>. I apologize for being an a******

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Jivix: there also aren't many minecraft players who logs in a whole ten miles. To repeat myself I'm not against resource management I think that is crucial for this mod, however I am against MIGRATION for reasons stated above.

To restate myself; resource management= :D , migration = <insert crying smiley face here>. I apologize for being an a******

You're not being a <insert crude phrase here>. People aren't willing to log 10 miles out because they don't need to. Thats why I think trees need to have a slower growing process, or have a new mechanic for growth. One of the biggest problems of the bronze age was deforestation. People started building with gypsum and other stones because they had no wood to build with. It's not like you have to permanently leave, you just need to have better environmental practices and patience or you'll end up with an empty space where the forest was. Either way, if you need extra wood beyond a baseline amount you should be forced to do a bit of deforestation at least, whether or not you replant it is up to you. It's just a bit OP to have 3 fast growing trees within your walls that supply wood for everything.

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Have played most of the civ games and I dont see why you would suggest that. It's not a first person survival game. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see both aspects like that all combined together in this total conversion. Telling me I should play another game instead is rather pointless since that's not what I want to do or else I wouldn't be playing this as it is. I don't see why TFC can't cover both bases in a similar fashion as it already is in a very very brief and concise method with the 'tiers'. The 'evolution' is simply a byproduct of going from stone to the different types of metal. And of course, it's already a survival game as it is anyway. TFC seems to already be evolution and survival built together. Again, it's subtle but it is there. Unless you meant something completely different when you said evolution.

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Have played most of the civ games and I dont see why you would suggest that. It's not a first person survival game. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see both aspects like that all combined together in this total conversion. Telling me I should play another game instead is rather pointless since that's not what I want to do or else I wouldn't be playing this as it is. I don't see why TFC can't cover both bases in a similar fashion as it already is in a very very brief and concise method with the 'tiers'. The 'evolution' is simply a byproduct of going from stone to the different types of metal. And of course, it's already a survival game as it is anyway. TFC seems to already be evolution and survival built together. Again, it's subtle but it is there. Unless you meant something completely different when you said evolution.

The first part was a joke no reason to over-analyse I just don't see this game as an evolution game both TFC and minecraft. Civ on the other hand is a game of evolution when you progress an age everything changes on the other hand there are no clearly defined ages in this game (yes there are undefined ones though). Additionally this mod's aim is realism, there is no realism in the ability for a single man to evolve from nomadic neandrathal to a modern man. I don't dislike this idea it may very well make a good game/mod but it doesn't really fit here in this game/mod.
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Ahh right on, sorry lol. I see what you mean, but the mod is already doing that since we start with nothing and work a little bit with flint, then gradually upgrade from our stonework into metals. That alone is evolution. Even the progression from a campfire to a forge and bloomery where we smelt ore. The game's aim isn't completely about realism though. It's realistic concepts applied to a game. The evolution is there, the survival is there. I don't see the point in separating what the mod is already doing. But I do like that there aren't defined "ages" since I don't think I'd like that. I like the progression that is already in place right now (which is technically an evolution of your tool set as you get better materials).

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Ahh right on, sorry lol. I see what you mean, but the mod is already doing that since we start with nothing and work a little bit with flint, then gradually upgrade from our stonework into metals. That alone is evolution. Even the progression from a campfire to a forge and bloomery where we smelt ore. The game's aim isn't completely about realism though. It's realistic concepts applied to a game. The evolution is there, the survival is there. I don't see the point in separating what the mod is already doing. But I do like that there aren't defined "ages" since I don't think I'd like that. I like the progression that is already in place right now (which is technically an evolution of your tool set as you get better materials).

Which is why I absolutely cannot wait until this mod is released officially, and I can play Ic2 with it. I want to progress so hard.

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Neither can I (though I wouldn't use a tech mod with it to be honest heh). Anyway, enough of that other talk. I dislike arguments and I think I was about to accidentally start one lol. X_X

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I didn't know that this would create such a big discussion.... Just was thinking.... ^_^

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I didn't know that this would create such a big discussion.... Just was thinking.... ^_^

Like that was a bad thing... besides, all that noise means this topic may be more interesting than we thought to begin with.

For example, I didn't saw a good thing to force by code to migrate. But, what if it's the player actions' consequences? This evening I got a flash of an idea: certain actions could modify the type of biome. If a player burns down a tropical forest, the sucessive rains could erode the grass under it, removing the dirt and turning it into a desert. Land filling the sea could turn an ocean biome into a plains biome. If a player takes all the water out of a swamp, it could after a time turn into a taiga. All that kind of things.

With such a functionality in place, a careless lumberjacking player could force himself to look for another forest. Or to repopulate a plains back into a forest. It could be a matter of counting how much trees, water blocks, sand blocks, etc, are in an area to get certain numbers: humidity, heat, vegetation cover... I haven't made the maths so I don't have a clear idea of what the algorithm should be, but I see potential.

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All I see happening is mobs will despawn and respawn seasonally to emulate migration, if seasons are added.

I can see this happening.. During 'winter' you will not find the normal game type animals spawning that you would during winter.. and during winter you better keep your cows warm :D This would fit with the agriculture parts that are being pushed forth as that is the real change from nomadic to stationary people.. can you find a food source where you are year round.

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