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Zzapdragon

TFC/BTW Collab?

16 posts in this topic

I wish to ask, has any of you played the Better Than Wolves Mod? It would be interesting to see a few of it's elements mixed in with TFC. Things like mechanical power, archery, and other things that, yes have been mentioned before in the suggestions, but BTW had some pretty nice stuff... What I'm Getting at is a mix of both mods and just speculating on how that would feel to you guys...

 

Personally, I feel very indifferent to the BTW author, but he made a wonderful modpack. Now it's outdated and old because I believe the author does not like modloaders or modpacks at all. I am not entirely sure he would be comfortable with a collab, but I am just imagining here. 

 

If any of you have toyed with BTW before I wan't to hear a discussion on it's pro's and con's and how it's elements could mix with TFC.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with BTW, try it out: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/253365-152-sspsmp-better-than-wolves-now-with-hardcore-sinkholes-total-conversion-v499999a0c-marsupial-upd-may-23rd/

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I doubt it would happen. From what I hear, flowerchild is not the easiest dev to work with, and I believe for bioxx and I, that would be quite important.

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Flowerchild had worked with Forge once and that didn't go well, huge flame war.  Someone started porting BTW into BWF (better with forge if I remember) and another huge flame war ensued.  As much as I liked his mechanical power and automation ideas, it was a very closed off mod that was either his way or get the hell out.  If something along those lines would be added to TFC, it would be best to stay far away from BTW because of all of the insane drama that follows that mod and its users.  I think Dunk and Bioxx can do a good enough job on their own if the idea were to be implemented.  I say all this as a follower of BTW from the very beginning.

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As much as I liked his mechanical power and automation ideas, it was a very closed off mod that was either his way or get the hell out.

 

It should be noted that, personal behavior aside, that is FlowerChild's privilege as a mod author. I'm fairly sure he has never stated anything other than "I make this mod the way I want it to be, you can play it if you like, but I won't change it to suit your tastes over mine". It's completely honest, and tells people ahead of time what to expect. Also: he's the one putting in the work. He has every right to tell the players to take it or leave it, just like Bioxx is perfectly in his right to decide that there will be no NPCs in Terrafirmacraft.

 

However I don't think BTW and TFC could work together well, largely because BTW is designed from the ground up to be played stand-alone. From a game design perspective, It stands to gain very little from integrating with another mod; any concession it makes to compatibility will water down its own structured experience. Additionally, the design paradigms and intended gameplay style are completely different. In the famous "tip of the iceberg" analogy, merely looking at the fact both mods expand/revise the vanilla progression is equal to judging a book by its cover and not seeing the other 95% that remain hidden below.

 

Consider a mob grinder/drop farm: in vanilla Minecraft, it's an option to the player that yields a tangible but not essential advantage if you choose to take the hit in suspension of disbelief. Mojang isn't a fan, officially considers it an exploit and has taken some steps to rein it in, though they will likely never fully remove it because some players like it. In TFC, something like this is highly frowned upon, breaks immersion and yields less practical benefit. In BTW on the other hand, using game mechanics like this is not only acceptable, but fully intended. Much of the automation infrastructure exists for the sole purpose of enabling this, and some game mechanics require you to have a drop farm constantly churning out heaps of items without player interaction in order to progress smoothly. This represents a deep conceptual divide between the intended playstyles of both mods, and thus they will be extremely hard to reconcile with one another.

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I meant nothing against him, like I said I had been following him since the very beginning when he created the mod and boasted "Look at what I can do in less code then it took to make those stupid wolves Notch added".  Back when it started though, he was a lot friendlier and his motto wasn't "Play it my way or don't play it" as you can tell by the config flags that used to be used and the integration into forge.  After forge he got real bitter and he's very open about disliking everything about Mojang since Notch left Minecraft.

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FlowerChild be salty.

he's practically the dead sea.

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he's practically the dead sea.

Maybe someday Flowerchild will lose his bitterness and be more flexable with modpack launchers like FTB and Technic. For now i think we now all understand a mix would sound nice but in reality would ruin eachother unless perfectly done with the help of Flowerchild.

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After someone tries to steal all the work you've put in for years because they don't like the way you're going with your own mod, you're allowed to be salty.

 

You can have issues with FlowerChild for many reasons, but "he moved away from forge and then got mad that people stole his work while saying it was garbage" is not a good one.

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After someone tries to steal all the work you've put in for years because they don't like the way you're going with your own mod, you're allowed to be salty.

 

You can have issues with FlowerChild for many reasons, but "he moved away from forge and then got mad that people stole his work while saying it was garbage" is not a good one.

 

I am unfamiliar exactly with what wen't down regarding Flowerchild and Forge and I would be unbiased on the subject if I was part of it. Please understand we are not trying to downgrade him or say we have issues with him. Sorry if you feel he has been offended.

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I am unfamiliar exactly with what wen't down regarding Flowerchild and Forge

If I'm correct, I believe that when Flowerchild said that he won't make BTW work with forge, they attempted to steal his mod and make a forge-compatible version or something like that.

 

 

I doubt it would happen. From what I hear, flowerchild is not the easiest dev to work with, and I believe for bioxx and I, that would be quite important.

I believe that he puts gameplay and balance above pretty much everything, which is why he decided to not use modloaders, and to stay at 1.5.2.

I also believe that one of the reasons he gave up compatibility was that if we wanted to really add everything he wanted in BTW, it would have ended up requiring users to use a whole bunch of different API's and stuff along with BTW, which would pose whole other problems, not to mention complicate the entire installing processes.

 

Besides, from what I hear, he's almost done with BTW, so I doubt that he'll bother to make BTW compatible with Forge, the current version of Minecraft, or anything else, really.

 

 

Anyways, for a mix of BTW and TFC, I'd say it'll need a lot of work.

We'll need to add, remove, and re-make tons of things to make it work nicely.

 

For one, steel buckets will need to be removed as they make screw pumps redundant.

The hunger and health system will need to be totally redone, and we'll need to add a lot(like 99.9%) of the hardcore options.

Villagers will need to be put back in the game, along with the Nether, the End, all all mobs living there.

We'll need nugget versions of the metals, and probably have to nerf stone and lower-tier metals to hell.

Well need TFC-versions of diamond ingots(possibly) and soulforged steel(most likely).

We'll need a way to add enchanting and brewing back into the game, and beacons as well.

All BTW machinery would need to be added, we'll need a way to mix the TFC and BTW crucibles.... 

And that's not even 1/10 of what we would need to do

 

Not to mention that we need to merge these two separate tech-trees together while making it still work as they should.

 

 
 
That said, if someone makes a minecraft 1.5.2 version of TFC, then makes a add-on that lets it work with BTW or make a add-on for BTW that adds TFC to it or something like that, I doubt Flowerchild will be against it.(but really, who would go to all the trouble just to do this?)
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In my opinion BTW is BTW TFC is TFC....i prefer them not combined....TFC need  to by TFC...adding some water/wind mill in TFC way and more stuff that i read in suggestion...me personaly i'm not in a rush...i w8 all the updates of TFC and I can not wait for the next update and the next and the next  :D  :D

 

 

As for Flowerchild is not a "good person"...i dont like his..."attitude"...he ban me from the forum just because I was friend with some one he dont like it...he ban player just because they have something to say....a person deserves a second chance but he dont give it....but this is MY OPINION!!

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Given that people in this thread are talking about this subject without having a clue about the reality of what would be required

 

FC End:

 

FlowerChild (FC) is leaving Minecraft modding behind after he finishes version 5.0 of Better Than Wolves to produce his own game titled Return to Home

 

And even if RTH to home doesn't work out he would not work on a collaboration for the following reasons:

 

FC once worked on a collaboration with SpaceToad to produce a BTW/Buildcraft mod titled Better Then Buildcraft. SpaceToad quit modding, and FC ruined lots of peoples saves by abandonding the project (this is considered a crime by FC who is still using the same save game hes been using since beta). He would not work on a collaboration again

 

FC also really only enjoys working on implementing ideas he came up with. He has included some ideas from users of his mod, but they were few and far between

 

Lets put it this way FC was thinking of puting the following in BTW

"-Punched leaves occasionally drop sticks.""-You can craft your first axe (maybe other tools as well...eliminating the wood tools) out of flint and sticks."

 

TFC implemented these (note: this is not implying TFC stole ideas from FC), and FC lost interest in the ideas as it was already implemented before. The fact that these ideas were common sense ones based off of history doesn't matter to someone who focuses on ideas being intelectual property.

 

Hes into competition, not collaboration. Even back in the Better Then Buildcraft days, it could be seen as competition versus the Minecraft Forge

 

And for those that want to "do it yourself". Its fine if you are doing it for your own personal use. FC will seek great lengths to have it removed from the internet if he catches someone redistributing his code without his permission (actually he'd probably try to sue you if he wasn't broke). And he would not give permission for something like this

 

Bioxx/dunkleosteus End

BTW focuses on many aspects that don't mesh well with TFC. AllenW's post describes several

Bioxx and dunkleosteus are not interested in making a BTW addon. They have thier own vision.

They have no desire to abandon Forge

They have no desire to switch to modding 1.5.2

They have no desire to work with FC

 

In all reality BTW and TFC do not focus on the same goals. They are commonly lumped together because they are low tech mods that make the game harder rather than easier. That is it.

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Ok I think the main focus here should be how to better the TFC experience.

One of the things I like about TFC is how is structured around the idea of technological progression.

We start the game on the Paleolithic evolve into neolithic and then to copper and bronze age.

Now i think we are missing some kind of mechanical power the even old cultures had.

I have to talk about wind and water mill.

I think mechanical power should be added to TFC but never as a way to fully automatize the production of any goods.

Right now I would settle for not having to pump the bellows the whole time while smelting steel.

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http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/5090-mechanical-power-doing-things-better-faster/page-2?hl=%20mechanical%20%20power

 

In this thread, dunkleosteus mentioned some of the plans for mechanical power in TFC

 

While it is true that wind mills and axles exist in BTW, they are real world devices that were not invented by FC. Adding them to TFC would not require collaboration with FC

 

Mechanical power is coming to TFC. Wait for it.

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uh... >.> erm... maybe not hold us to the stuff we say so much...

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