Responsible Forestry

[Maga 99]

One aspect of TFC that I like is the fact that wood is a valuble resource that must be managed properly. Unfortunately with some tree-types it is impossible to collect a sapling for every tree you cut down. I think sequoia and jungle trees should still have no sapling drops, but as for the other tree types I would like to see a way to actually grow a forest. It would take patience, it would take resources, but it would be worth the investment. Here's how it would be done.

 

-Only during the correct time of year, each tree type will also have a chance to drop a seed when it's leaves are broken

-Leaves would change texture slightly to indicate seeds are ready

-Seeds will drop at the same rate as saplings

-Seeds can be planted anywhere a sapling can be planted but they must be planted early in the year if you are close to the poles (see next point)

-If the temperature drops below 0 degrees (could be changed for each tree-type) the seedling will die and disappear

-Planting a seed makes a tiny sprout appear on the ground, called a seedling, similar in appearance to a plant in growth stage #1

-Each tree type's sapling has a certain time before it will grow into a tree, take this time and multiply by 2. That is the time it takes for a seedling to grow into a sapling

-Before a seedling can start the count until it grows into a sapling it must be right-clicked with a freshwater bucket, a piece of fertilizer and one piece of bonemeal

 

 

Making it a long process that requires patience and resources as well as player interaction means that growing your forests wouldn't be easy. I think managing forests should still be important but you shouldn't have to destroy a forest far from your home just to make a grove of trees by your settlement. Over time, a player who is willing to put in the time and effort would be able to grow their forests and practice sustainable resource management while players who are lazy and just scythe leaves and chop away would eventually be left with a scarcity of certain wood-types. 

 

I think this addition would promote more immersive game-play where players who actually care for their trees and learn to be responsible stewards of their environment are rewarded. It would also greatly benefit SMP settings where many players currently end up running further and further from home to massacre forests in search of certain wood types.

 

 

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Something to keep in mind is that saplings already generate on their own in areas where the temperature is warm enough in combination with the tall grass regrowth. It's possible that this isn't working properly in 78.17, but I have seen it working as intended in B79. If a grass block has a high enough temperature, light level, and has direct access to the sky, there is a chance for it to sprout a sapling just by the block randomly ticking.

 

Edit: The sapling that will sprout on the grass block is dependent on the area's tree layer data. In basic terms, this means that if there are trees in the area on world generation, saplings for those trees can sprout on their own. This is actually the only way to get Sequoia saplings. Only the jungle saplings are not included in this sprouting.

[Maga 99]

As for myself I only started playing in 78.17

While I have never seen the mechanic you described it's great to hear that it works in 79.

Despite this I still firmly believe that there should be a very time/effort/resource intensive way for players to actually grow a small forest into a large one over the course of several years. I am not opposed to making the seedlings require multiple waterings and longer times for turning into saplings. Maybe saplings grown from seedlings would 4-5x longer to turn into trees instead of 2x.

 

Long story short: Make it tough, but make it possible. It would be worth it.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

That's the thing. If we add in this mechanic, we would have to remove the saplings spawning on their own because small forests already grow into larger ones over several years without any player interaction at all. It actually goes as far as that a player can completely log an entire area so that there is not a single tree left in the forest, and after a few years of saplings generating on their own, the forest will be back to its full original glory as long as there is no further chopping.

[Maga 99]

Would I be correct in assuming that a player would need to be around those chunks for the game ticks to generate saplings? If so then you're kinda screwed if you don't set up shop within a reasonable distance of all the trees you want to grow. In a case like mine where I live at least 2k from 80% of the tree varieties I would have to walk up north and wander around the area for years in order to get a fresh batch of forest to log, that would kinda defeat any purpose of building further south in areas with less trees.

 

I get what you're saying though and it makes me reconsider whether or not adding my idea would be worth it. Lets say I live at x 5000. I have to run several kilometers to have any chance of finding the trees I want, loading chunks and lagging the server then again I suppose that's all part of planning your home location... Now I'm conflicted. Part of me still wants to grow a small grove of trees into a forest (even though it's not the proper biome/temp etc) but given that forests will be re-spawning in future builds It would probably be unbalanced. Oh well, for now I'll just patiently wait for the next build but I'm still hopeful for another layer of player interaction being added to forest management, be it a variation of my suggestion or something different altogether.

[Wandering_eye 3]

Also on this, how about normal trees have a growth system similar to that of fruit trees, beacause can't really expect a metre tall sapling to suddenly transform into a 20 metre tall tree in seconds?

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Also on this, how about normal trees have a growth system similar to that of fruit trees, beacause can't really expect a metre tall sapling to suddenly transform into a 20 metre tall tree in seconds?

 

I think the main reason that this wouldn't be practical to add is lag. Generally, fruit trees are extremely rare in comparison to regular trees. In order for a fruit tree to grow in stages like it does, the blocks of the trees are actually ticking tile entities. This means that about every second, the tree actually checks to see if enough time has passed for it to grow to the next stage yet. Individually, and even in a decent sized orchard, this doesn't cause any noticeable lag unless you are an extremely old and sub-par system. However, if every single naturally grown log in the world was constantly ticking, this would become quite the problem. The way that it is currently implemented, the only time that a tree is ticking is while it is still a sapling. Once the sapling grows into a tree, the entire structure is made up of just plain old blocks, and causes no more lag than all the other regular blocks in the game like stone, with the only exception being when the blocks are forcibly updated by a player (chopping down the tree).

[Palisight 34]

Did anyone check if it is possible to do gradual growth of trees where only 1 of the log blocks of the entire tree is ticking? (presumedly the top or the bottom) log

 

Idea that may or may not be possible

 

If its possible, when a check is passed it could check to see the number of log blocks above or below (and make sure the tree still has leaves), and replace the tree with one that is one block higher. At certain heights there could be a probability after a passed check that would stop the log block from ticking (different metadata state). Removing the leaves would also stop the tree from ticking

 

The different types of logs would presumedly have to be given separate block Ids to free up metadata (assuming TFC hasn't already done so)

[transcengopher 349]

I think the main reason that this wouldn't be practical to add is lag. Generally, fruit trees are extremely rare in comparison to regular trees. In order for a fruit tree to grow in stages like it does, the blocks of the trees are actually ticking tile entities. This means that about every second, the tree actually checks to see if enough time has passed for it to grow to the next stage yet. Individually, and even in a decent sized orchard, this doesn't cause any noticeable lag unless you are an extremely old and sub-par system. However, if every single naturally grown log in the world was constantly ticking, this would become quite the problem. The way that it is currently implemented, the only time that a tree is ticking is while it is still a sapling. Once the sapling grows into a tree, the entire structure is made up of just plain old blocks, and causes no more lag than all the other regular blocks in the game like stone, with the only exception being when the blocks are forcibly updated by a player (chopping down the tree).

The way you approach to solving that is you actually have a single ticking log block for a single tree. Although this approach, as I'm seeing it, will require to have an enormous amount of growth stage templates for every single tree - as to not make a poor ticking entity to compute a sensible place for the next log block it places in the world. That and the fact that we don't want for every single tree to look exactly the same, so many templates are required indeed.

 

 

Did anyone check if it is possible to do gradual growth of trees where only 1 of the log blocks of the entire tree is ticking? (presumedly the top or the bottom) log

 

Idea that may or may not be possible

 

If its possible, when a check is passed it could check to see the number of log blocks above or below (and make sure the tree still has leaves), and replace the tree with one that is one block higher. At certain heights there could be a probability after a passed check that would stop the log block from ticking (different metadata state). Removing the leaves would also stop the tree from ticking

 

The different types of logs would presumedly have to be given separate block Ids to free up metadata (assuming TFC hasn't already done so)

 

First, simple checks of above/below would only allow to generate a straight girders for trees, and you DO need to replace leaves with air and air with leaves, not forgetting to retain a descent pattern for the whole thing. Second, I don't think we have a luxury of giving every log its own separate id value.

 

Top block would not work, I'll tell you that much. It's not a particularly cheap operation - to make a ticking tile to move itself while keeping its state. That expence is actually one of the reasons vanilla Minecraft does not allow moving with pistons of any blocks with more than one state to them.

Bottom block, as I've just said, requires either a finely tuned computation algorythm, or growth stage templates. And that outta be good templates, because, let's be honest, fruit trees do not look that good while they are growing, do they?

[Maga 99]

Thread was created to suggest more meaningful interaction between the player and their surroundings, not to propose a gargantuan lag monster that wouldn't add anything other than pointless realism.

[transcengopher 349]

Thread was created to suggest more interactive and meaningful interaction between the player and their surroundings, not to propose a gargantuan lag monster that wouldn't add anything other than pointless realism.

Everything opening post of this thread says, I spoke of more than a year ago. For a good part of it I already made a tumbly-but-working concept of on my local dev environment.

This part:

-Leaves would change texture slightly to indicate seeds are ready

Is consideraby more laggy than a gargantuan lag monster, if done the way I think you wanted it to.

Tree saplings of most trees present in TFC are actually quite a bit more sturdy and can manage below 0 celcius for a good while.

You DON'T need to water or fertilize tree seedlings, they are - again - will manage just fine on their own somewhere on the forest clearing. We might as well be required to do the same for each crop we are trying to grow (maybe even daily - that'd make it require even more player interaction and patience, isn't that amazing?) - those are far more reliable on player interaction to actually bear their fruit.

Anything else?

[Palisight 34]

The way you approach to solving that is you actually have a single ticking log block for a single tree. Although this approach, as I'm seeing it, will require to have an enormous amount of growth stage templates for every single tree - as to not make a poor ticking entity to compute a sensible place for the next log block it places in the world. That and the fact that we don't want for every single tree to look exactly the same, so many templates are required indeed.

 

 

 

 

First, simple checks of above/below would only allow to generate a straight girders for trees, and you DO need to replace leaves with air and air with leaves, not forgetting to retain a descent pattern for the whole thing. Second, I don't think we have a luxury of giving every log its own separate id value.

 

Top block would not work, I'll tell you that much. It's not a particularly cheap operation - to make a ticking tile to move itself while keeping its state. That expence is actually one of the reasons vanilla Minecraft does not allow moving with pistons of any blocks with more than one state to them.

Bottom block, as I've just said, requires either a finely tuned computation algorythm, or growth stage templates. And that outta be good templates, because, let's be honest, fruit trees do not look that good while they are growing, do they?

 

I wasn't thinking of actually moving the blocks. Basically the replacement operation would use a modified version of the tree chopping code where it destroys the entire tree (obviously dropping nothing), and creating a new tree 1 block higher in its place (it could go more than one if less intermediate growths are desireable).

[Maga 99]

Anything else?

I'm not going to necro your thread from a year ago. A fresh look can be a good thing and a lot can change in a year. If your thread has had its feelings hurt I'll mail it some flowers.Very well, changing 2-5 leaf blocks per tree is optional. Players could manage by making a note of when each tree produced seeds or just read the wiki.I doubt you've ever planted trees IRL. Not every one survives "just fine" and that is the very obvious reason that trees normally produce hundreds or thousands of seeds. Now, I'm trying to be sensible and prioritize quality gameplay over realism. Since it would be aweful to have a mod where trees made hundreds of seeds and only a few survived I suggested that there only be a few seeds and each would survive provided the player took care of them.

[transcengopher 349]

I'm not going to necro your thread from a year ago. A fresh look can be a good thing and a lot can change in a year. If your thread has had its feelings hurt I'll mail it some flowers.Very well, changing 2-5 leaf blocks per tree is optional. Players could manage by making a note of when each tree produced seeds or just read the wiki.I doubt you've ever planted trees IRL. Not every one survives "just fine" and that is the very obvious reason that trees normally produce hundreds or thousands of seeds. Now, I'm trying to be sensible and prioritize quality gameplay over realism. Since it would be aweful to have a mod where trees made hundreds of seeds and only a few survived I suggested that there only be a few seeds and each would survive provided the player took care of them.

The subforum is full of those fresh looks that add nothing to initial concept except couple of sentences stating "oh cool, I like that" from various people. We don't need even more topics that state the same thing over and over, we have plenty of those already.

 

Also, adding a right click requirement does seem like a very weird step towards quality gameplay. Especially assuming trees in your RL do not grow at all unless you fertilize the seed. I may have not planted a tree myself, but I've seen forest clearings in springs completely covered with saplings that are so crowded they choke each other to get some sunlight.