Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Maga

Braziers -heating (and cooking)

27 posts in this topic

About braziers

Fire-pits are very early game, rudimentary means of containing fire, however, later in the game they seem out of place, barbaric and unattractive. A brazier is a metal cage that contains a fire so that it can give off light and heat and in some cases be using for cooking while maintaining a safer indoor flame. I don't like the feel of cooking meat in the same forge I am melting steel in and I feel this would make a great addition to the game. Once body temperature is added braziers would be very useful as a means for heating your homes during cold winter nights. 

 

In real life

Posted Image

 

TFC chiseled concept art

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

 

 

Mechanics

Crafting a brazier would require working a double ingot of copper, any bronze, wrought iron or steel, then welding it with a double ingot and then working again

The brazier would be similar in size to an anvil and, like the anvil, would be placeable in line with both the x and z axis

Right clicking a brazier would open the GUI where you would find a temperature gauge and inventory slots for fuel

When burning, the top-most fuel slot is burned first, logs migrate to the top and coal and charcoal automatically go to the lowest possible slots

Right clicking an unlit brazier with fuel inside using a fire starter or flint and steel would light it

Right clicking a lit brazier with a water bucket would put it out

Braziers are not affected by bellows

 

Lit braziers would have 3 stages, or modes: flames, coals and embers

     -Flames are from a lit brazier that has wood being burned in it, the brazier is replaced with a fire-block (http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Fire) that burns until the wood runs out. If possible, there would still be a hit-box in the center so players could add fuel to a flaming brazier. A flaming brazier would obviously be have a luminance of 15 since it becomes the default fire-block. When a flaming brazier runs out of wood the fire block is replaced with a brazier with embers inside. (no harvest-able charcoal is produced by the brazier)

     -Burning coal or charcoal in the brazier gives lit coals but no flame, however the temperature of the brazier would be higher. Lit coals would look like the brazier was full of the texture used for an active bloomery. A brazier with lit coals would have a luminace of 11. When the lit coals run out the brazier becomes full of embers.

     -Embers are the final stage of a lit brazier before it goes out. They would last quite a while (maybe 1/3 day-night cycle) but could not cook anything. The texture would be the same as lit coals but with more muted colors. A brazier with burning embers would have a very low temperature and a luminance of 3. Adding fuel to a brazier with burning embers does not require re-lighting the brazier.

 

 

Fuels

Logs, coal and charcoal are used as fuels (not peat)

Copper and bronze braziers only burn logs

Wrought iron braziers can burn logs and coal

Steel braziers can burn all 3 fuel types.

 

Logs would burn shortest, followed by coal and finally charcoal as the longest burning fuel.

The brazier would stay lit significantly longer by taking the burn time for logs, coal and charcoal and multiplying it by a certain value so that players wouldn't have to stoke the fire every 2 minutes. I think that for a brazier with 8 inventory slots, a full load of 8 charcoal should last about one full day-night cycle (that means to keep a brazier lit to heat your cabin for a 45 day winter would take roughly 5 stacks + 40 charcoal) Other fuel types could be scaled back from this.

 

 

Cooking

To use the brazier for cooking a range or a metal pot would be placed in the block above a brazier. When food items are placed on the range or when the pot is set to 'boil' the brazier consumes it's fuel at the same rate it would normally be consumed in a fire-pit or forge (depends if it's logs or coal/charcoal)

 

EDIT: Cooking aspect moved to new thread that deals with cooking and foods. LINK

 

 

Here is an example of how using a brazier might play out.

Steve loads his brazier with 3 oak logs, 1 kapok log and 4 charcoal

The charcoal sink to the bottom and the logs go to the top

Steve lights the brazier and it turns into a minecraft fire block

First it burns the kapok log at the burn temperature for kapok but for much longer than kapok in a campfire

Next go the 3 oak logs, the brazier stays a fire block and the temperature goes up

Steve is now boiling stew for 30 seconds so the oak logs are consumed at the same rate as they would be in a campfire until the stew is done

When the logs run out the fire block disappears and the metal brazier returns, now full of lit coals

The temperature is hotter but it's not as bright now

Finally the charcoal runs out and the brazier is now full of embers

Steve notices the lighting change, walks over to the brazier and stokes it again, enjoying the cozy atmosphere inside his cabin along with a bowl of hot beef and vegetable stew while not dying of hypothermia

The end.

     

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the general idea of a new block dedicated to cooking other than the firepit. one that allow us to cook multiple foods like the forge but small like the firepit, something meadke out of metal like your brazier is a good idea

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks... edited OP to include lower tier metal braziers that only burn logs so players still starting out can stay warm.

 

Cooking pot and range still restricted to wrought iron for the sake of progression.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice work with the chisel. It is a idea that add more autenticity to the game. The blacksmiths didn't take the food with them and then cook it at the forge.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This almost smells like one of my posts. Smells good.

 

I have no negative feedback for this one, job well done soldier. A +1 for you, and I'll point Dunk this way on skype if he hasn't already seen it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no negative feedback

 

Now I've seen everything xD

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I've seen everything xD

 

 

See what happens when you think your posts through, follow all the forum rules, have genuinely inventive and useful ideas, and make sure you're giving careful thought to game balance?'S like magic, innit

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think copper and bronze are suitable materials to make a brazier with, since they would melt under the heat.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think copper and bronze are suitable materials to make a brazier with, since they would melt under the heat.

 

 

I did my research before I posted, clearly you did not.

 

In real life copper melts at 1085 degrees Celsius, bronze at around 1000, depending on the alloy used.

In the world of terrafirmacraft, copper turns liquid at orange****, bronze at orange, bismuth bronze at orange* and black bronze at orange****

Since I clearly stated that copper and bronze braziers would only use logs as fuel and no log burns hotter than Bright red that is not going to be a problem.

 

Now before you start spouting illogical comments about wrought iron and steel I'll cover those too, just for the sake of being thorough.

Bellows would not affect braziers, and since without the use of bellows in a forge burning coal/charcoal you can't get wrought iron or steel to melt. Bottom line: these two metals would be fine for the fuels they can use as braziers.

 

There was good reason I said copper/bronze braziers would only burn logs, both for progression and because it makes sense.

 

And even after all that, I really don't care. I've lost track of how many times the admins have had to point out once again that the order of importance when designing TFC is good game-play  > believability  > realism.

Even if my suggestion wasn't realistic (and it was) it's still believable and good.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the basic idea just  would like to add a different design or concept.

Manny years ago I was visiting in the country and saw a stone made oven with a door on the front to add wood and cook bread. The same oven had holes on the top with bars that were used to cook. when not in use they had metal covers. This thin was also the main heating for the house.

I have no idea how the mechanics of the game would work. But if I am not mistaken this is what was used for many generations. People would not have a oven and a cook-top as separate things.

Off course it needs a chimney.

I also dont like the idea of cooking on the forge, so I vote for a unique cooking block , the heating as a secondary is acceptable as it was historically like that.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did my research before I posted, clearly you did not.In real life copper melts at 1085 degrees Celsius, bronze at around 1000, depending on the alloy used.In the world of terrafirmacraft, copper turns liquid at orange****, bronze at orange, bismuth bronze at orange* and black bronze at orange****Since I clearly stated that copper and bronze braziers would only use logs as fuel and no log burns hotter than Bright red that is not going to be a problem...

Missed out the part about copper/bronze braziers only burning logs when reading. My bad :P
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Missed out the part about copper/bronze braziers only burning logs when reading. My bad :P

 

No harm done, I tend to cram a lot of info into an op when I make a suggestion I really care about.

I'm glad you agree with the bit you missed though... we're on the same good page.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree on the embers not being able to cook anything.

When I'm camping, I always wait for the fire to die down to embers before cooking, because open flames can easily burn the food on the outside and leave it raw on the inside, and apparently, cooking food over burning coal can give it a bad taste.

I think embers should be able to cook food, and it should be the advantage of braziers over firepits. The ability to cook longer on the same amount of fuel.

 

Also, I don't think a lit brazer should be replaced by a fire block. that would look really bad in my opinion. I mean, random fireblocks in the kitchen aren't really the most aesthetically pleasing thing. But other then those two, I have no real problems with this idea.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree on the embers not being able to cook anything.

When I'm camping, I always wait for the fire to die down to embers before cooking, because open flames can easily burn the food on the outside and leave it raw on the inside, and apparently, cooking food over burning coal can give it a bad taste.

I think embers should be able to cook food, and it should be the advantage of braziers over firepits. The ability to cook longer on the same amount of fuel.

 

Also, I don't think a lit brazer should be replaced by a fire block. that would look really bad in my opinion. I mean, random fireblocks in the kitchen aren't really the most aesthetically pleasing thing. But other then those two, I have no real problems with this idea.

 

 

I think slowpoke would take issue with using a vanilla fireblock anyway. I have confidence that he'll render us up something nice n' purdy

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree on the embers not being able to cook anything.

When I'm camping, I always wait for the fire to die down to embers before cooking, because open flames can easily burn the food on the outside and leave it raw on the inside, and apparently, cooking food over burning coal can give it a bad taste.

I think embers should be able to cook food, and it should be the advantage of braziers over firepits. The ability to cook longer on the same amount of fuel.

 

Purposeful game-play is always more important than pointless realism. l added long-lasting embers specifically so that players would notice the room darken but still be able to toss in fuel without needing to run to a chest and grab the flint for the millionth time. Cooking over embers might be what you do irl when camping but for balancing purposes there should be an appropriate fuel coast associated with cooking foods. Using 8 hours of free embers from a single log to cook whatever you need would thoroughly break and defenestrate that balance. As for the bad taste comment, it could be added that actually cooking would need to have charcoal/logs being burned at the moment and having coal pop up mid-cook would ruin the meal but that's extra code I don't see being necessary.

 

I will repeat, the embers are there to look sexy, alert the player the fuel is gone and remove the need for constant re-ignition. If they can heat the home and cook the food as well then there is no reason left to actually burn anything.

 

If your reality bug still isn't cured consider this: When you cook a meal on a campfire it probably weighs no more than a pound. A full stack of bread or meat is ten times this amount. Next time you go camping consider if you would prefer to boil a 300oz (18lb) cauldron of stew on a cozy little pile of wood embers or a roaring fire/white hot bed of coals. We're not toasting marshmallows here... although, that would be fun ;)

 

 

I think slowpoke would take issue with using a vanilla fireblock anyway. I have confidence that he'll render us up something nice n' purdy

 

If we could get a brazier with flames licking across the surface and letting off sparks... that... that would be very satisfying indeed.

Since I won't be the one who makes it happen (if it does happen) I try to suggest simpler solutions where I can.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your reality bug still isn't cured consider this: When you cook a meal on a campfire it probably weighs no more than a pound. A full stack of bread or meat is ten times this amount. Next time you go camping consider if you would prefer to boil a 300oz (18lb) cauldron of stew on a cozy little pile of wood embers or a roaring fire/white hot bed of coals. We're not toasting marshmallows here... although, that would be fun ;)

Embers are pretty hot. Something that big, the embers should be hot enough to cook boil that 300oz of stew.

Also, the bigger the chunk of meat, the more reason you have to use the embers. Embers give a even heat and will cook food thoroughly without burning, but open flames will, like stated, burn the outside and leave the inside raw and the bigger the meat, the bigger the chances for the food to be raw on the inside and burned on the outside when cooked on a open flame

 

But then again, a big metal pot would be more than enough to stop the food from burning.

But if the range you said is what I think it is, no, that would not stop the food from burning.

Purposeful game-play is always more important than pointless realism.

I will repeat, the embers are there to look sexy, alert the player the fuel is gone and remove the need for constant re-ignition. If they can heat the home and cook the food as well then there is no reason left to actually burn anything.

I wasn't going for pointless realism, not really.

I suppose the entire problem was I didn't really fully state what I was thinking, and for that, I do apologize.

 

What I was thinking was that the brazier could be a multi-purpose block.

When lit and blazing, it can be used as an alternative light source to torches and for heat, and when the fire dies down to hot embers, you use it to cook(and for less heat)

 

But true that the embers burn too long to really be used for anything.

But if it's to prevent constant re-ignition, don' t you think the embers last too long? I mean, with forges and firepits, they burn out instantly after the last consumed fuel runs out, but there is still enough time to add more fuel or let it burn out depending on how much longer you'll use it, right? I mean, I never had to re-light a firepit or a forge because it ran out of fuel and turned off before I was done using it.

What if embers burn for twice the time as the fire/coal/charcoal in it was burning? Would that be enough to make using it for cooking not op?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The brazier is used for light, decoration and cooking but when body temperature is added it would be the main way to heat your home. If embers didn't last a long time (and they do last that long irl) then every time a player left to go mine or build they would come back to a fireplace that they would need to relight. That's unrealistic and a major pain.

The reason that going out when fuel is gone works fine for something like a forge is because when you're using a forge you're right by it the whole time to tend it and maintain proper temperature. With the fireplace you don't need to babysit the darn thing, its there to keep your cabin warm for when you get back.

With this system the brazier IS a multipurpose block... Just not a convoluted one that would cause more annoyance than good.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Made sure to read the thread this time >.>

 

 

Is it necessary to have braziers that render differently along the x and z axes? It causes problems for anvils and is generally a pain. Additionally, chiseled block rendering isn't desirable, as it eats up a lot of memory. Ideally, you'd want the model to be explicitly defined, in which case you aren't bound by the limits of what you could chisel. The brazier could look much more like the 'real-life' image in your OP.

 

I think your concept of coals vs flames is interesting, and important as far as cooking goes. As was mentioned above, flames aren't desirable when cooking, as they just char food. The brazier would most likely function the way that other fire-based blocks work, with a temperature meter, although that might just be behind the scenes.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think a stove would make more sense. braziers are usually used outside for example when camping. Historically the first people would cook over open fires using the tree stones and latter some kind of tripod  to support a pan or cauldron.

Stone and  cast iron wood stove came latter.

so i think and idea would be to create a clay cauldron and wood tripod that would be placed over a fire pit for early game cooking.

And a stone stove that would let us more elaborate recipes including all kinds of bread.

since iron is a late game technology the iron made brazier makes no sense.

for a history of the oven  http://inventors.about.com/od/ofamousinventions/a/oven.htm

for a history of cooking http://allthatcooking.com/history-of-cooking/

of note is 

25 to 200 AD
One of the first applications of metals was to build a stove. Cast iron was used for this purpose in China, through a process in which melted iron was poured into sand moulds.

So well into the acceptable time table for TFC.

Please have in mind that even though I disagree with the idea of a brazier ( basically because i fhink it makes no sense to bake bread on it) I totally agree with you on the necessity of a cooking block in the game.

If a new block is going to be added lets make it so is oven and cook top all in one or we need two blocks.

Nobody IRL is going to trow meat into a open fire and get a barbecue some kind of device is needed.

​Also most foods need  to be cooked for consumption specially hard grains.

So historically the first men cooked over open fire with the roasting spit and the food over hot stones.

A huge progress was the use of clay to make pots and cauldrons initially set on top of 3 rocks arranged over the fire.

latter came the tripod so the cauldron  would hang over the fire.

Then came the invention of the stone mason stove.

A iron cast stove is better than stone in how it distributes the heat so if created in game it would use less fuel for the same amount of heat.

 

 

.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The advantage of a brazier over a firepit or forge (as I see it) is that it is portable. 

 

I do agree that an oven could certainly find a use though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you implying on having a brazier as a structure to be placed over the firepit or forge so we would add the combustible to the firepit or forge instead of having to add wood or coal to the brazier itself?

I think that's a good idea. and more plausible.

What about the use of cooking stones for early game?

Any stone surrounding the fire pit would work as a cooking stone where we could place ( sneak right click) a steak and have it cooked.

I think is better than putting the meat straight into the fire as we do now.

Whatever materials would be used for making the Brazier they would not be available for early game.

We still need to consider the cauldron for soups and stews.

So this way out of the cave the only thing steve can cook is meat and anything else will need improved cooking devices.

Man we really need the oven.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you implying on having a brazier as a structure to be placed over the firepit or forge so we would add the combustible to the firepit or forge instead of having to add wood or coal to the brazier itself? no >_>

 

Man we really need the oven. yes

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find myself repeating something I said in the OP because either you didn't read it carefully or you forgot about it, not fond of needing to do so. One at a time now...

 

 

since iron is a late game technology the iron made brazier makes no sense.

I will try to ignore the fact that you provide absolutely no backing for this argument. My best guess is that you don't want to go through the effort of getting iron and that is a sad excuse indeed. 

Crafting a brazier would require working a double ingot of copper, any bronze, wrought iron or steel, then welding it with a double ingot and then working again

Here I clearly state that early game metals can be used to make braziers. Basically making your point about iron braziers null and void.

 

 

Logs, coal and charcoal are used as fuels (not peat)

Copper and bronze braziers only burn logs

Wrought iron braziers can burn logs and coal

Steel braziers can burn all 3 fuel types.

Here are the rewards for using late-game metals. It makes lots of sense if you read it all.

 

Final point on this bit: The reason I want cooking pots/cauldrons and high level braziers to be made of iron/steel is so that players have something to do once they get those metals... try to remember that progression in game play is important.

I disagree with the idea of a brazier ( basically because i fhink it makes no sense to bake bread on it)

1) First of all that is a really insignificantly small reason to completely disagree with everything else in the OP

2) I stated in the OP that the range was not super important, but I wanted a way to cook meat over the flames/coals and placing the meat on a grill that's over a fire made sense to me.

3) I agree that making bread would be best done in a clay oven but that's another topic and since I would like to keep my thread focused I won't discuss it here, even though I love the idea of clay oven breads.

 

If a new block is going to be added lets make it so is oven and cook top all in one or we need two blocks.

1) Cast iron ovens are a work of engineering that in my opinion exceeds the feel of TFC at it's current stage. Clay ovens I just talked about so not repeating it again.

2) We already have code that heats up one thing from something below it (crucible and forge) so adding something  similar is less work than if one block heating another was a new idea.

3) Saying that an idea is bad because it needs two blocks is ridiculous. Metal working has dozens of blocks involved (anvils, forges, crucibles, fire brick, iron sheets, vessels etc etc) and that system is brilliant. If you want a 1x1x1 block that can do everything you're better off playing greg-tech. A great thing about TFC is that you can't just make a single block for every problem you come across.

 

Nobody IRL is going to trow meat into a open fire and get a barbecue some kind of device is needed.

In the OP I explicitly state that the brazier itself has no means of cooking on it's own. Placing a range or pot above the brazier is needed, and like I also said in OP "The range is not super important" I wouldn't object to doing away with the metal grill entirely if clay ovens became a thing. I just don't want boiled steak. The pot is the main aspect of cooking with braziers. You say we need to place a pot on a tripod over a stone fire-pit like it's a totally new and unique idea... I'm saying we hang a metal pot over a fire in our fireplace... why is this not good enough for you?

 

 

 

Finally, I feel as though you're completely ignoring the heating aspect of the brazier. When body temp becomes a thing heating your homes during the winter is going to be important. The whole point was that a brazier would consume fuel slowly so that you could maintain a warm house without spending 20 hours a day babysitting something. I made sure to include that when actually cooking over a brazier that fuel would be consumed at a normal rate.

 

I was very careful in the OP to be thorough in my explanations in hopes that people wouldn't bring up details I had already addressed. Some of your points are valid (ie: cooking bread would better be done in a clay oven) but...

 

If you want to talk clay ovens feel free to make a thread, if you don't and there isn't one currently in existence I would be happy to provide an environment for discussing that topic. In future please keep in mind that we're talking about something to heat your home as well as cook here and that not everything should be available as soon as you dig up some clay. IMO TFC could use more late-game content and making things like iron pots/braziers needed for advanced stews would help with that.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok you win.

This is your tread and is about braziers.

I apologize for upsetting you.

My intention was to  contribute on the topic and discussion on the whole cooking system.

I can appreciate your proposal as it adds to the game.

Peace.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take heart. Several of your comments were both relevant and of merit, such as:

1) No cooking in a forge

2) No making bread on a metal grill (bad idea on my part)

3) The oven (I love your idea for progression from clay ovens to stone ovens to metal ovens)

To name a few.

 

Now, the thread is mostly about the brazier. Using a metal pot with it (which we both agree is a good idea) deals with cooking but a cooking overhaul is such a massive topic that it deserves it's own thread where you could go into all the oven detail you wanted.

 

While I did have issues with some of your comments for various reasons my biggest concern is that letting a thread about braziers become a conversation about cooking overhaul can very easily morph into a big ugly complicated mess that's hard to follow and harder still to gather any useful information from. I don't hate your oven idea, in fact I think ovens have such enormous potential that they simply require a thread of their own. The two blocks could compliment each-other quite well actually. If you don't mind I think we need to start a cooking thread that takes your ideas and lets them grow in an appropriate environment, properly articulated and with focused discussion.

 

In fact, the idea of cooking overhaul is really starting to grow on me to a point where I almost want to go start that thread right now. (If I do you get full credit for inspiring me) And I'll probably delete the range suggestion and move the metal pot bit over to the cooking thread and simply link it to this one where appropriate.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0