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[UPDATED!] Earlygame grass, straw, thatch, sticks changes and adobe

Like the idea? Vote!   8 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the main suggestion v2?

    • Yeah, great, lets add it in right away!
      2
    • Mostly I like it, but maybe it still needs some work
      3
    • Could be nice, but the way it is is much simpler, lets not make it complicated
      0
    • Well... no, this would only cause problems in balance of the earlygame
      3
    • Shut the f+++ up, this is just bull+++t
      0

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45 posts in this topic

Or in the case of the new update that we will have more dangerous animals, I dont see thatch wall strong against a bear. 

 

yeah, and wolves can blow it away...

 

Anyways seriously, it might be a good feature if thatch blocks can't hold against a bear, but a full block of straw should be solid enough agaist everything else. Keep in mind that in the suggestion I stated that the if the mobs collide think stick, they (the sticks) break. And if any mob (exept spiders) (even the player) jumps on your thatch roof the stick supporting it break if its not a full thatch block, because then its solid. This is usefull for traps too.

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yeah, and wolves can blow it away...

lol okay :D

 

But the pictures you showed are for modern structures.

When I see images of villages in remote places where people have no access to technology, people always build their houses with adobe walls and thatch or straw roofs.

Yes, these are some more modern structures than our TFC structures. You're right that we shouldn't be able to use the straw in the same way, but we need to find a material to build the shelter during the first day. I understand, not everyone uses to build a thatch shelter the first day, but a great part of people do, so if thatch will be classified as unstable for a wall, then we need something as quick as straw to get that could replace it.

 

Don't you at least agree that adobe would be a stronger material than thatch specially if you are trying to protect yourself against zombies.

Or in the case of the new update that we will have more dangerous animals, I dont see thatch wall strong against a bear. 

Of course, I agree with these. Bears are quite strong and thatch isn't a problem for them. Adobe should be more mob resistant than thatch. 

 

So I may have an idea to solve this. What if thatch isn't mob resistant, BUT mobs can still not see you through it, so if you manage to hide in a thatch shelter without mobs seeing you, they don't have a reason to demolish your shelter, they'll just walk around searching for someone to kill.

 

This is the only idea I have to solve it for now, otherwise we should need a first day better building material.

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Aggresive animals are a different type of hostile mob than zombies/skeletons/spiders.

 

Zombies/skeletons burn up in daylight, and spiders are only naturally hostile in dark areas

 

There is really no reason why a grizzly bear for example shouldn't be hostile 24/7 (unless you implement bear sleeping mechanics)

 

And of course if you implement bear sleeping mechanics, they would be hostile in the day and sleep in the night

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Aggresive animals are a different type of hostile mob than zombies/skeletons/spiders.

Also, zombies skeletons and stuff will be moved underground, so let's not think like they'll be on the surface forever.

And thinking about this...yeah, there's no need to rush on thatch after all if those mobs will be moved undrground. We'll just have natural animals, and then adobe could really be the first shelter.

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I keep saying dig a hole on the ground or side of a hill until you have adobe for your walls. Use thatch for the roof and you are dome.

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I keep saying dig a hole on the ground or side of a hill until you have adobe for your walls. Use thatch for the roof and you are dome.

 

That might be how you play, but that isn't how a lot of people play TFC. You can't force one specific first night experience on everyone. I would also say that a good chunk if not the majority of our players do indeed start TFC by making a thatch hut, and not by digging a hole.

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Sorry. maybe bad wording. my bad.

I was just pointing out that there are other solutions for the first nights.

It's not like is imperative for everybody to have thatch for the first night or they will dye.

Of course every player is free to find the best for the way they play.

Not trying to force anything on anyone. 

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I am not sure if that is historically correct.

When I see images of villages in remote places where people have no access to technology, people always build their houses with adobe walls and thatch or straw roofs.

Posted Image

This works.

Though it should be noted, that this isn't pure thatch, but thatch covering sticks/branches bent and tied in a dome shape

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Yesterday I started a new world on single player by the second night I had a cozy thatch house.

I feel so ashamed of myself.

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I think that anything short of stone or plank blocks, logs, or fences should be destructible by hostile animals/mobs

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I think that anything short of stone or plank blocks, logs, or fences should be destructible by hostile animals/mobs

 

Stone?

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Yeah, I think he means cobble, chiseled and all that similar stuff, normal stone too.

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Yeah, I think he means cobble, chiseled and all that similar stuff, normal stone too.

 

i don't need zombies to destroy my sculptures, why would they do that?

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Oh no, he said anything short of stone, so I read that as anything that doesn't have stone in it. So basically stone, plank blocks, logs and fences would be safe.

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Its pretty clear that the community here is divided between casual sandbox players that don't want obstacles impeding progress and those that want to fight against mobs to survive

 

A obvious solution to the break blocks part of this divide is to utilize the difficulty modes and only allow mobs to break blocks in hard/hardcore modes

 

-------------------------

 

After reading Kitty's posts in this thread, it seems like this suggestion isn't going to fly (as of right now) even if you remove the reasonable ropeish item requirement. For some reason thatch huts are currently deemed neccesary for first night survival. This seems to be the case of a ridiculous solution being used to a problem because noone thought of a better one

 

So if this suggestion is going to become acceptable (hopefully with the ropeish item part intact), I think someone needs to come up with a realistic replacement material for thatch that would be useful protection against mobs

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I personally think that first-night survival is difficult enough already, so would oppose changes to thatch that made it substantially harder to throw together a crude shelter the first night.

That said... I could definitely get behind a lot of these ideas as things that happen to thatch.

Suppose: You can gather, craft, and build with thatch blocks exactly as now. However, over the course of a few game days, thatch will dry out and turn brown. This dried out thatch could then begin to slump like dirt. So, exactly as easy to throw together that first thatch hut, but in that state it is strictly temporary shelter and will need regular maintenance and repair.

The ability to reinforce the thatch blocks, either with sticks or with twine, would be an improvement players would then have to work towards to eliminate that daily hut maintenance. I'd personally favor crafting rather than plank-style placement for this reinforcement; crafting a thatch block with string or yarn could give a bail of thatch, which looks very much like a thatch block but won't slump when it dries out. You could go one step further and make these bails stackable but still not anti-grav when dried out, and to fully anti-grav aged thatch for roofing blocks or over windows, you'd craft those bails with sticks to get a reinforced thatch bail, which would not fall from the ceiling when they aged.

After a much longer period of time than the drying - perhaps a game year? - even these bails might start to rot away to nothing, just as a low-percent random tick event; so a straw hut you build and abandon during your early nomadic period will be, a month later, just a pile of rotting thatch, and after a couple of years, nothing would remain at all. The random tick responses could include "downgrade" events, like the sticks snapping in a reinforced bail, or the string breaking on a regular bail. This would allow some pretty neat natural decay of structures.

I like this idea of nerfing thatch a since, currently, there is no compelling reason beyond aesthetics to ever stop using thatch to build. This would add some work to early game without making the very first day/night harder, and would give an incentive to start upgrading to a better building material beyond the obvious aesthetic ones.

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--snip thatch decay snip--

Most of this is fine and I actually like it, except for the part about browning-out thatch blocks. There's no way to tell when the block was placed in a world without making it a ticking tile, and it's even worse with your idea of reinforced things that would last you a year. Generally speaking, you don't want to have much of those tickers around for performance reasons. I would suggest implementing something like this, but using rain/thunderstorms to trigger the decaying effect (with some fairly-not-big chance on a tick, like 2% for each block). Reinforcing will then be used to lower that chance. You might think 2% is low (what a casual-shit kiddy I am, amirite?), but in actuality it's not at all, if you think about a chance of fairly sizeable thatch shack not to be affected by this after one tick iteration.

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You don't have to know when it was placed, and it doesn't have to be a tile entity. I was talking about it using random ticks, not active ticks, which is the same way grass spreads, and that doesn't cause performance issues even when the entire ground is covered in it. The time frames were just ballpark things, you'd aim for that by controlling how likely the decay is, more likely happens faster, less likely happens much slower. Of course, it could happen any time, the minute after you place it or never in many game-years of play.

 

:edit: after thinking about it for a minute I realised random ticks wouldn't work, at least, not as I was intending; random ticks never happen unless the chunk is loaded, so truly abandoned huts would last indefinitely until a player came along again.  I agree with trancengopher that using tile entites and active ticks for every thatch block to accomplish it would probably not be worth the performance impact. A shame, I really like the idea of structures that degrade over time...

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I was thinking more along the lines of using planks to support the roof. but The way minecraft works once you have a plank using a block space you cannot have anything else. That means that your roof would now be at least 2 blocks thick. In the lower part you cant even place a torch because that space is already occupied. 

What if thatch blocks were gravity oriented blocks so the only way to have on the roof would be using planks but right clicking on a plank with a thatch block would place the thatch on the same block where the plank is and not on top of it.

That or having to mix the thatch block and the plank on the crafting grid to create a new gravity defying block.

This idea would only work if we had the Wedge for early game access to planks.

As for turning brown. Thatch roofs last for a long time in real life and only need minor repairs.

For balance purposes We could make it so it needs to be redone each year.

Question anyone know if is possible to have a expiration date on a item without having it ticking?

I guess if we could have it in a way that it would turn brown after 1 year and then we had 3 months to replace the roof before it crumbles down.

I give this numbers because people play in servers and if you don't play for a week that's a year in the game.

So when you see your roof turning brow you know is time to replace it.

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I was thinking, as I said in my last post, you could, but as I came back to edit into it, that random ticks don't work that way, so no, dunno a way to have an even slightly predictable expiration date over a particular time frame without being ticking TEs. Best you can do is a very rough average over some amount of time loaded; time spent in unloaded chunks wouldn't factor in at all.

 

we were talking about sticks before, if we're talking planks instead, then it becomes impossible to build a roof before saws. The idea of being able to place sticks like planks seems to give too much power early-game, and undermines the value of planks for building later. Even without decaying over time, my previous idea of crafting sticks to thatch as support frames could still work, and makes some amount of sense. Normal thatch falls, but can be stacked, while you have to reinforce it to build roofs. It would render showing the framing sticks, so it's a single block but visibly identifiable as supported.

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