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Kirasyy

Multiplayer

19 posts in this topic

I hate multiplayer for any world that I plan to spend significant amounts of time on. Progression of tiers and equipment is far too quick because of people sharing, worlds are constantly restarting making any long term base seem pointless, there griefing, lag, etc.

 

Also I am sure there is a large amount of your playerbase which play TFC on singeplayer.So why does TFC focus so heavily on multiplayer?

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From what I've observed it seems optimized for singleplayer, but participating in TFC servers can share the fun :) 

 

Several servers incorporate anti-grief protections, towny style claims, administrative support, etc.  If you join a server that you enjoy that doesn't mean you have to tier up immediately with people, and many won't anyway.  As for resets it's up to the server owners of course, but several servers don't reset unless generation makes a big change (and wouldn't you want the updates with that?).  I don't mean to sound like a salesman for servers haha, but it certainly makes a fun environment for enjoying TerraFirmaCraft if you find the right server.

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From what I've observed it seems optimized for singleplayer, but participating in TFC servers can share the fun :)

 

TFC is indeed balanced towards multiplayer, and not singleplayer. That is why there is so much exploration involved in finding all of the materials, and why you get the materials in such great quantities once you find them. A single very large copper vein is enough to last a lifetime in a singleplayer world, but on a server it is used up much more quickly between multiple players, which is the intended behavior.

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TFC is indeed balanced towards multiplayer, and not singleplayer. That is why there is so much exploration involved in finding all of the materials, and why you get the materials in such great quantities once you find them. A single very large copper vein is enough to last a lifetime in a singleplayer world, but on a server it is used up much more quickly between multiple players, which is the intended behavior.

 

Well that certainly makes sense, I only comment in that regard as it seems more stable in ssp. But then again, I'm not a developer :)

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think Jiro is saying optimized in a technical sense for ssp, while Kitty is saying it's balanced in a gameplay sense for smp. I've certainly experienced less crash issues in ssp than in smp, fwiw, which seems to support jiro's point, while the amount of grindiness involved certainly seems more balanced towards teamwork than solo play.

 

tl;dr: yer both right, just talking about different things.

 

:edit: to be fair, thinking about it, almost all of my smp play has been on plugin-enabled servers, and I'm not sure if tfc works out of the box on mcpc+ or if it's an unofficial port or what, but regardless it is possible the increased smp stability is mcpc+'s fault, not tfc's.

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I wish we had a TFC version made for bukkit. It would make server administration a lot easier.

The way it is right now, being a forge mod is ok for Lan, But your only option to benefit from all the plugins made for bukkit is to get Cauldron.

Maybe it will be a little better with B79 since it will be 1.7.x, right now Cauldron for 1.6.4 is not the most stable build.

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I am trying to run a Cauldron server for B79 and having all kinds of issues. They are not TFC fault as in single player everything works fine. The latest bug is that animals are not dropping meat or hides on death, they also do not run when attacked.

I know is not TFC, but I am not the only server owner that depends on Cauldron to be able to have the convenience of Bukkit plugins for managing the server.

My Cauldron version is  cauldron-1.7.10-1.1217.01.0-server

My TFC version is : [1.7.10]TerraFirmaCraft-0.79.8.328

I really appreciate if someone with code knowledge would approach the Cauldron team and help with this compatibility issue.

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TFC is indeed balanced towards multiplayer, and not singleplayer. That is why there is so much exploration involved in finding all of the materials, and why you get the materials in such great quantities once you find them. A single very large copper vein is enough to last a lifetime in a singleplayer world, but on a server it is used up much more quickly between multiple players, which is the intended behavior.

 

It may be optimized towards multiplayer but despite what people may think, single player is actually easier in many ways. Time not passing when you're not online is actually a huge advantage in most cases. Especially when food decay is involved.

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It may be optimized towards multiplayer but despite what people may think, single player is actually easier in many ways. Time not passing when you're not online is actually a huge advantage in most cases. Especially when food decay is involved.

 

That's why there are features in place designed specifically for multiplayer. For instance, 79.0 added the server sleep function, so that time passes extremely slowly when no players are online. As for food decay, that's what the food decay protection system that was introduced in 78 is for. If a player does not wish to share their food with others, they can log off with it in their inventory, and as long as they are logged off for long enough (configurable), when they log back in the food will only get an in-game day's worth of decay, instead of the entire period of time they were logged off. This also works for unloaded chunks, when a small group of players who are generally all on at the same time want to log off, and not store all of their food in their inventories in case one of the group comes back before the others.

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It may be optimized towards multiplayer but despite what people may think, single player is actually easier in many ways. Time not passing when you're not online is actually a huge advantage in most cases. Especially when food decay is involved.

 

I would have agreed before the addition of vinegar and large vessels. I stored my apple harvest (about 9 stacks) in large vessels that were full of vinegar and 9 months later I logged on to see half at 0% and the other half at 0.3% 

 

Dried smoked salted meat in a vessel lasts a good long time too. Add dark rooms on high mountains to this setup and you should be fine even logged out in a loaded chunk for upwards of 2 in game years. In SMP we have people cooperating so that we reach these preservation milestones at a reasonable rate, this makes up for the fact that time stops in SP. The early game is tricky but with seaweed its almost impossible to starve unless you're extremely lazy. Once burlap sacks are added and (hopefully) granaries as well I don't think anyone who takes advantage of these great mechanics should have any reason to complain about food again. If you won't get off your ass to prepare, preserve and store your food properly you shouldn't get off your ass to complain that it went bad.

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So we hear all the time that TFC is balanced for multiplayer, and everyone knows that bukkit is the largest repository for Server plugins and admin  tools. With that in mind I would like to ask for official support for Cauldron.

All files are in github.

There are a lot of servers awaiting for this right now.Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

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So we hear all the time that TFC is balanced for multiplayer, and everyone knows that bukkit is the largest repository for Server plugins and admin  tools. With that in mind I would like to ask for official support for Cauldron.

All files are in github.

There are a lot of servers awaiting for this right now.Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

And our response to that, as it has always been, is that you need to contact Cauldron for that support. 99% of the time, they broke it.

 

Edit: To get this point across, because it seems like people aren't quite understanding. Asking TFC to implement Cauldron support because something isn't working is like complaining to the waitress that your food doesn't taste good because the chef used a different recipe than normal. The only thing the waitress can do is ask that the chef go back to using the old recipe, or make something different. TFC is the waitress. Cauldron is the chef. Forge is the old recipe.

 

Edit 2: We refuse to be the middle-man in this situation. The TFC staff is busy enough with their own problems. You can go complain directly yourself to Cauldron if you think its something so important.

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that was the first thing I did, but I think the problem would be solved faster if  someone that speaks java would approach the Cauldron team. It would add weight to the issue. I understand that is impossible for the TFC team of Devs to provide compatibility with every single mod out there. The problem is that Cauldron is not a mod is a Server platform. The way I see maybe in a year Forge will have good admin plugins and tools, but right now forgeessentials is not even close to the functionality that we have with Bukkit plugins.

I have to admit that I am new to the whole server administration,I had 2 craftbukkit servers and switched to MCPC+ when I made my first TFC server now with the update to 1.7.10 the option is Cauldron so I am on my 4th server  in one year.

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Let me rephrase this once again, because you don't seem to get it. TFC literally cannot do anything to make it more compatible with Cauldron. If we did that, we would break compatibility with forge, and therefore make it so that TFC could only ever be run on a server that is running Cauldron.

 

Edit: To clarify even more. Cauldron is not like any other mod where compatibility issues can be fixed by either party. Cauldron is a forge replacement. Either TFC is compatible with Forge, or TFC is compatible with Cauldron. The only way for TFC to be compatible with both, is if Forge and Cauldron work out their differences.

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I think I haven't maid myself clear, I apologize for the confusion.

I am not asking for you to change anything on the TFC code. That would make no sense. What I asked was for someone who knows java to take a look on the Cauldron code witch is available in github and help find what is wrong, maybe even help the guy to fix the issue. I don't know java but I understand that the problem is there and it has to be fixed there. But is a problem that is affecting a lot of servers hosting TFC.

Since this is a community forum, this is more like a general please help to anyone with enough Java knowledge to get there and help the guy fix his Server, that unfortunately we don't have any other option, if we want to use forge and bukkit plugins at the same server. It does not necessarily needs to be you or Dunk or Bioxx, It can be anyone that enjoys playing terrafirmacraft on a good server.

As always thanks for answering my questions. I also understand how busy you and all the Devs in TFC are fixing bugs.

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As an experienced server owner and operator (50+ servers in 4 years), these are the same issues we have always faced. I too have the same issues, but it our job to sort them out, not the responsibility of mod devs.

If you have issues with Cauldron then you must communicate with their dev team ... the only way stuff gets fixed is by communication. Due to the issues involving copyright infringement, there is going to continue to many problems with cauldron, there is no escaping that. Craftbukkit is pretty much dead in the water at the moment, and no amount of bitching is going to fix that. Without craftbukkit there is no Cauldron.

I do agree that it may be some time before we see the level of detail we have grown used to with bukkit used in forge mods, but while forge essentials and mytown are only the first ones trying to bridge the gap, there will be others. While patience is not the most common trait amongst players, it is an essential requirement of server owners. The only way to fix the problems is to do it yourself, or shut up and wait for others to do it.

Basically we can only do what we can within the confines of what we have. Players will bitch to you, but you bitching to the wrong people doesnt help anyone. Suck it up and do what you can, just like the rest of us :D

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Once again I apologize if I gave the impression of bitching. I was just asking for help. And yeah I already posted on all the forums I could find for Cauldron, and there are others there with the same issue, so hopefully it will get a fix soon.

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i think the best idea would that anyone who has a free minute to go to the cauldron site and bump the problem to show that is is affecting a lot of people.

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I hate multiplayer for any world that I plan to spend significant amounts of time on. Progression of tiers and equipment is far too quick because of people sharing, worlds are constantly restarting making any long term base seem pointless, there griefing, lag, etc.

 

Also I am sure there is a large amount of your playerbase which play TFC on singeplayer. So why does TFC focus so heavily on multiplayer?

Well, me, I don't get much more lag on multiplayer than on singleplayer.

 

Also, I don't feel progression is too quick. It does seem quick sometimes when I'm absent for long amounts of time and I find the town skipped 2~4 tiers, but since in TFC, the only real changes I feel are when you get a saw, then crucible, bloomery, and blast furnace, I don't feel that the progression rushes ahead of me.

 

I also like multiplayer because I can focus on what I want to do. Since there are more players working together, I can let others gather metals while I build and farm, or let them forge while I go out for new crops and animals.

In fact, I find multiplayer much better than singleplayer, because I don't have to do stuff like going hundreds of blocks for graphite or something, which in my opinion, is a chore.

Of course, I do end up spending a lot more time managing food for much more people, but I like doing that, so... yea (shrugs)

 

I also find that server resets aren't really all that frequent, and usually, when a server re-sets, unless I happened to start at a much later time than the others, I find that I'm quite ready for a new start as well, and I can always ask for the world save.

 

I also find that greifing is a very rare occurrence in well-organized servers. Whitelisted servers are very nice, since not just anyone can jump on, and most servers I've been on have very nice plot-protecting plugins, which when used correctly remove a lot of greifing/thieving problems. Plus, TFC isn't the kind of environment like vanilla servers where one player with a pick can essentially nuke the landscape.

 

But my guess as to the reason for why TFC is multiplayer centered is 'because that's what they envisioned TFC to be'

You can't really ask a person why they made that book that way, or why did the movie went like that. They just envisioned it like that.

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