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AllenWL

Metal Nuggets.

15 posts in this topic

Well, I really have two reasons for posting this.

 

One, it's really annoying to smelt metals and make alloys.

Ores give 10, 15, 25, and 35 units of metal.

One ingot is 100 units. I find it extremely hard to make alloys without being left with random annoying bits of metal here and there that I don't want.

And I'm also sometimes left with various random units of metal that are really quite hard to get rid of.

 

So I suggest nuggets be made on an anvil or mold, and be worth 5 units of metal. That's 20 nuggets per ingot.

They'll stack up to 64, and be placeable in chests or vessels. The reason I think they should be worth 5 units is because the unit of metals give by ores are all divisible by 5, so if a ingot is worth 5 units, no matter what weird and random mixture of ores you dump in, you'll always be able to turn the remainder into nuggets instead of having an annoying partially-filled mold taking up space.

Also, this makes one nugget exactly 5% of a entire ingot. This means that with nuggets, you can make any alloys you want in any quantity you want without having to juggle around numbers like 'If I have 3 poor  zinc ores, 2 tiny bismuth ores, 2 normal copper ore and one rich copper ore, how can I make one ingot of bismuth bronze?' We came here to play games, and not do complicated math, right?

 

The other reason is the currency thread that got recently revived. People(me included) where talking about coins and why this wouldn't work and what makes currency run and all that, when I thought, hey, I know that lots of people already use metal ingots to trade goods, so why not simply add metal ingots?

It's pretty much just like coins in all but name, and the fact that we can use it for more things than coins without sounding weird. (Like, a silver nugget used to put engravings on a sword sounds better than a silver coin being used to put engravings on a sword)

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hmmm, I still prefer the actual mechanism. It's simple and math don't bother me at all.

Sincerely, those incomplete ingots, I usually put it in the garbage most of the time.

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The point of using nuggets as currency is that you can use what you find as a currency without having to make anything out of it

 

Have you ever heard of anyone in real life making standardized sized nuggets to use as currency? Since when is it impracticle to melt coins for thier metals?

 

So you want something functionally equivalent to coins, but not coins, yet still implemented in a manner consistent with how coins are made and used

 

In that case why not just ask for coins?

 

As far as I can tell, the real problem people have with coins is that what the people really want is a functioning economy and noone wants to be responsible bankers.

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I don't really see how this is a problem. Can you not just cast your waste into a spare ingot mold?

 

I agree with palisight on currency. The complex dynamics of a real world economy just can't exist in TFC. Every player can essentially complete any task, there are only three rare ores in the game, money requires a transaction before its useful, whereas a trade-able commodity can be both used as well as traded.

 

Without a bank, or government which could reward player for using an arbitrary form of currency, there is no more need to store some coins then to store some graphite.

 

Gold had a much higher value in real life because it was associated with the jewelry and clothes that nobles wore. The coin maintained a value because it was scarce, held stature and could be smelted into something useful. None of the items in TFC have all three of these properties, graphite being one of the scarcest ores will only take one or two days to find on an active server.

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It'd be great for metallurgy reasons, as storing practically full and practically empty molds because is so damn inefficient and it'd be nice to figure out a way to use them.

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The metallurgy point of this post is completely moot, because you can already do alloy mixing one unit at a time.

 

If you put an unshaped metal ingot into the crucible, it won't add the whole thing at once. It will add the metal one unit at a time until it is either empty, or you remove the item from the input slot.

 

So why break it up into 5's, when you already have 1's?

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So you want something functionally equivalent to coins, but not coins, yet still implemented in a manner consistent with how coins are made and used

Uh... no.

I do realize that it might be misleading, but I don't want something that 'functions like coins but are not coins'

I was just thinking about how darn useful having metal nuggets will be when I realized that it could be used as currency as well, and decided to post this thing.

 

 

I don't really see how this is a problem. Can you not just cast your waste into a spare ingot mold?

I can, but those are annoying to store. I mean, I can dump it in a chest, but my chests all tend to be full, and I don't really have the wood or space to spend on chests so I can just store my dumb leftover metals. And anyways, they don't stack, and I can't put them in vessels, so even with chests, they take up space kinda fast. At least for me anyways.

 

 

The metallurgy point of this post is completely moot, because you can already do alloy mixing one unit at a time.

 

If you put an unshaped metal ingot into the crucible, it won't add the whole thing at once. It will add the metal one unit at a time until it is either empty, or you remove the item from the input slot.

 

So why break it up into 5's, when you already have 1's?

I know that it fills gradually, but the point is, I can't see how many units of metal I'm adding.

I can stick that unshaped tin ingot in there for a bit, then add unshaped copper to make bronze, but I have absolutely no idea how much metal is in there.

I can guess, sure, but I have no way of telling whether I now have 100 units of bronze, which is what I want, or 99 units, or 101 units, or any other random amount.

 

And this often ends up with me having ingot molds with really random units of metal left in there, like 11 or 24 or 37 or whatever, and those are even more annoying to get rid of then the 10, 15, 25, 35 combinations from ores.

 

If I have nuggets that I know is 5 units a piece, and can actually see each and every 5 units of metal I add amounts to, I can add 2 tin nuggets and 18 copper nuggets, and know that I have 100 units of bronze, no more, and no less. And I can just dump the metal in there, unlike with unshaped ingots, where I have to guess how many units are being added, and babysit the mold so I don't accidently add more than I was planning to.

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Have you ever heard of anyone in real life making standardized sized nuggets to use as currency? Since when is it impracticle to melt coins for thier metals?

 

What else a coin is, if not a standardized nugget of a specific alloy?

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I know that it fills gradually, but the point is, I can't see how many units of metal I'm adding.

I can stick that unshaped tin ingot in there for a bit, then add unshaped copper to make bronze, but I have absolutely no idea how much metal is in there.

I can guess, sure, but I have no way of telling whether I now have 100 units of bronze, which is what I want, or 99 units, or 101 units, or any other random amount.

 

And this often ends up with me having ingot molds with really random units of metal left in there, like 11 or 24 or 37 or whatever, and those are even more annoying to get rid of then the 10, 15, 25, 35 combinations from ores.

 

If I have nuggets that I know is 5 units a piece, and can actually see each and every 5 units of metal I add amounts to, I can add 2 tin nuggets and 18 copper nuggets, and know that I have 100 units of bronze, no more, and no less. And I can just dump the metal in there, unlike with unshaped ingots, where I have to guess how many units are being added, and babysit the mold so I don't accidently add more than I was planning to.

 

I have changed the partially-filled mold tooltip in 79 to display the amount of units it contains, instead of simply saying "Not Full." This goes both for the ingot molds and the tool molds, so you will know exactly how many more units you need to completely fill it.

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I have changed the partially-filled mold tooltip in 79 to display the amount of units it contains, instead of simply saying "Not Full." This goes both for the ingot molds and the tool molds, so you will know exactly how many more units you need to completely fill it.

Hmm it would be more efficient if the crucible had a gauge as well.  I mean usually when mixing ores you already know the math and have everything ready, but if you for some reason log out then when you return you have slightly less of a clue as to exactly how much liquid metal is in the crucible.  Unless it's intentionally made so that it's more difficult to mix/smelt using the crucible, without one, a gauge would be welcome.  Plz and thank youz.

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Hmm it would be more efficient if the crucible had a gauge as well.  I mean usually when mixing ores you already know the math and have everything ready, but if you for some reason log out then when you return you have slightly less of a clue as to exactly how much liquid metal is in the crucible.  Unless it's intentionally made so that it's more difficult to mix/smelt using the crucible, without one, a gauge would be welcome.  Plz and thank youz.

 

The crucible already has a "full" gauge. As shown by #4 in this picture:

 

Posted Image

 

If you want like tick marks showing where each ingot starts or something, I'm sure a higher resolution texture pack could do that.

 

Edit: The crucible can hold a total of 30 ingots worth of metal, so you really can't use that gauge to estimate things other than by the ingot.

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I have changed the partially-filled mold tooltip in 79 to display the amount of units it contains, instead of simply saying "Not Full." This goes both for the ingot molds and the tool molds, so you will know exactly how many more units you need to completely fill it.

 

Oh, really?

Then I have no more problems with that. Now the only thing left is to be quick to add/remove the molds so I don't end up with odd units left over.

 

I still think metal nuggets could be useful for lots of things, but seeing that those 'lots of things' aren't in the game, or really needed, this is really a moot point.

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The crucible already has a "full" gauge. As shown by #4 in this picture:

 

Posted Image

 

If you want like tick marks showing where each ingot starts or something, I'm sure a higher resolution texture pack could do that.

 

Edit: The crucible can hold a total of 30 ingots worth of metal, so you really can't use that gauge to estimate things other than by the ingot.

yeah I was referring to tick marks showing how much liquid metal was in the gauge. A texture pack you say?  any suggestion?

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I do not know of any texture packs that have tick marks on the gauge. You would probably have to contact an artist of a higher res one and ask them.

 

For vanilla TFC, the GUI has 100 pixels to represent 30 ingots. This comes down to 1 pixel for every 30 units of metal. Because of this scale, the really only logical place to put tick marks would be for every 3 ingots.

 

In actual scale, that looks a bit something like this (with 1.5 ingots worth of metal inside)

 

Posted Image

 

Since most people don't use Small GUI size, it would more likely look like this:

 

Posted Image

 

Obviously texture packs can use a higher resolution size, so they wouldn't be limited to the 30 units = 1 pixel, and they might be able to come up with a better scale and put the tick marks on every other ingot or something.

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I do not know of any texture packs that have tick marks on the gauge. You would probably have to contact an artist of a higher res one and ask them.

 

For vanilla TFC, the GUI has 100 pixels to represent 30 ingots. This comes down to 1 pixel for every 30 units of metal. Because of this scale, the really only logical place to put tick marks would be for every 3 ingots.

 

In actual scale, that looks a bit something like this (with 1.5 ingots worth of metal inside)

 

Posted Image

 

Since most people don't use Small GUI size, it would more likely look like this:

 

Posted Image

 

Obviously texture packs can use a higher resolution size, so they wouldn't be limited to the 30 units = 1 pixel, and they might be able to come up with a better scale and put the tick marks on every other ingot or something.

Even that low res option would've made the first few attempts at mixing red steel or even Black bronze way easier.  At least now I can use these as a visual aid, even though I've already figured out most of the mixing by now.  The issue is when you log out and come back to a crucible with 30% Steel and 70% Black Bronze and you're left wondering: 30% of what?  This helps to narrow that down.  never knew 1 pixel=30 units, that literally helps a ton.  Thank you for your patience and quick replies.

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