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darknighht257

Dog Sled/horse and carriage

36 posts in this topic

so in game i just lost a whole bunch of seeds to the winter and i was pretty upset about that and i was thinking man i wish their was a way to just move faster or something, now bare with me because this idea literally just poped into my head lol, it might be completely stupid actually lol but for a little bit it seems kind of cool so i thought i would just write it down and see what happens from their and maybe other people can improve on it.

 

Now what im thinking is if you can ride horses or not in TFC only because i have never seen one lol, but i have seen plenty of wolfs, so i thought it be cool to be able to make like a dog sled and like only be able to use it in winter or something, but than to like build onto that idea have like a carriage for horses to and have the carriage be able to store stuff like a chest or something along those lines. It would be like Oregon trail type stuff lol.

 

Maybe even have like different types of carriage like one with a forge in it or something, idk lol just spit balling here. still need to think on the idea a little more but im curious to see what other people think so let me know peoples XD

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and even pullcart and oxcarts. Mind you the current game makes it possible for a single person to carry stones that IRL would only be hauled by a truck, I think there should be a mechanism in which blocks can only be transported at least with a pullcart

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The only thing I can think of is carriage drawn archers

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Making blocks only transportable by cart would prevent you from from carrying them, which means you couldn't place them.

 

I think what you (meaning eccentrus) want is carrying capacity based off of weight

 

Mind you TFC has several unique storage solutions (toolracks, ingot piles, wood piles) etc. that make entities carrying items for you much more difficult

 

Storage donkeys/mules/minecarts are normally the solution for playable weight mods. These involves storing heavy items in chests

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this is turning into the transportation infrastructure and inventory overhaul threads a bit...

on the subject of dog sleds specifically, which may have come up before but not that I've seen, dog sleds seem like an excellent low-tech vehicle option. Useful only in extreme cold conditions, when snow is covering the ground, they would make it much easier to live in the harsh cold climates than it is currently (and especially than it will be after the body temperature updates), letting you cover more area faster than on foot. They could be much easier to craft, and so available earlier, than things like wagons or pull-carts that require wheels. They're also more practical for nomads, since dogs will follow you around without holding food or a rope. I wouldn't call it a high-priority thing, but if vehicles and transportation are being addressed and implemented at some point, dog sleds would be a great early option, I think.

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The main issue that I see with dog sleds is the vanilla dog AI. Primarily, that the major way of transportation that dogs use is teleportation.

 

In my experience with dogs, they usually have a fairly hard time actually keeping up with the player, especially on terrains that aren't very flat like mountains and cliff-sides. They're pretty dumb and also get stuck in berry bushes, and leaves, or will walk straight into surface lava pits and caves. So really it would just be a dog with a sled attached that keeps randomly teleporting directly to your side.

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The sled would necessarily eliminate the AI though... the player would be in control, riding on the sled.

 

Cool and fun idea.  Also, horse-drawn sleighs were common during the winter, allowing rapid travel without needing roads.

 

As other's have mentioned, it seems to me like it would fit in best with an inventory/transportation infrastructure update.  Something like:

 

Dogs and horses can rapidly pull sleighs on snow and ice, including going over 1 high blocks.

Horses can slowly pull wagons over one high blocks, and rapidly pull over level ground and maybe stairs(roads incentive)

Each dog/horse attached to the wagon/sleigh increases the speed, up to, say 6 dogs or 4 horses (but horses would be somewhat faster).

Inventory stuff to make this worthwhile.

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Dog sleds would be much more difficult to implement then horse carriages since a 1 horse carriage is believable, but you would need multiple dogs

 

And combining the animals with the sled/carriage would basically be making a new entity. Its much more complicated to make one animal-transport entity than multiple animals-entity. The game would only need to keep track of 1 health/hunger value etc.

 

Of course maybe the devs could come up with a better solution than this that wouldn't have that problem

 

And if teleporting dogs are a problem, the teleportation can be disabled. If you lose your dogs, it is your fault after all.

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What if we make it so the sled/carriage moves on it's own, and it's speed depends on how many animals are hooked to it?

Say, a sled with no animals moves at a speed of 0(obviously) with one dog, a speed of 1, with two dogs, a speed of 1.5, etc.

 

The dogs could just 'ride' the sled's harness. I mean, whether the dogs in the harness are pulling the sled or the sled is pushing the dogs, it both looks more or less the same in-game, right?

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That's all nice, but it would not work properly unless we have some changes to terrain generation.

Thare is just too many ups and downs and death holes for us to use any kind of vehicle unless we first build a road.

I would love to have sleds in game, I just don't see then working right now.

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I agree, I tried simply horse and it's unplayable the carriage always end up stock somewhere or falling into a crevice.

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So basically some people here think the concept of building roads and stairs for your cariages is impracticle

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What I am trying to say is that any break on the terrain that is more than 1 block either going up or down makes horse riding very difficult.

I do not own a horse, but I don't believe when people go riding a horse that they will be jumping over 2 meters.

And is a constant on the terrain the way it is now.

I believe a change to terrain generation is needed to propitiate horse riding.

Like having the terrain more flatter in general. Going up or down only by 1 block per 10 block or more in the distance.

Horses are animals of the plains. And we have Huge plains on Earth. In Europe, Africa, America, Asia and even Australia.

Having some ups and downs but only by one block would make the terrain ideal for horse riding.

As for carriages they should need roads and not be able to go up or down by a full block at once. They should need slabs, not stairs please.

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Wheels can't handle 1 m ledges very well.

 

The diameter of the wheel probably wouldn't exceed 1 m, so I think they'd have quite a time rolling up vertical wall.

 

Dog sleds are probably out of the question, but horse carts aren't completely farfetched

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ehrm. Sorry, but have to say, to dismiss wheels completely as being able to step up 1m ledges... horses don't casually step up a sheer 1-meter ledge, either. They can probably climb such a ledge, but they certainly can't sprint up a "hill" consisting of a constant series of 1m ledges. They can in mc because a 1m step is the smallest reasonable step possible in the mc universe, so a concession to practicality over realism had to be made or horses would be absolutely, utterly, and completely useless.

Roads are great, so beneficial reasons for players to build roads over long distances would be even better, but to suggest any wheeled vehicles will require those roads be either perfectly flat, or made up of hundreds of meters of chiseled slabs to grade all slopes, seems like too big a concession to realism for my taste, for the same reason it would have been with horses.

:edit: if you wanted to require they have sufficient room on the ledge, so they can, ex, climb a series of 3-wide, 1-high steps making a more "gradual" slope, but be unable to climb sheer 1x1 stairs, that'd seem eminently reasonable. But no climbing 1m gaps at all, seems entirely to restrictive to me.

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That's why I insist that we need a change on terrain generation.

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ehrm. Sorry, but have to say, to dismiss wheels completely as being able to step up 1m ledges... horses don't casually step up a sheer 1-meter ledge, either. They can probably climb such a ledge, but they certainly can't sprint up a "hill" consisting of a constant series of 1m ledges. They can in mc because a 1m step is the smallest reasonable step possible in the mc universe, so a concession to practicality over realism had to be made or horses would be absolutely, utterly, and completely useless.Roads are great, so beneficial reasons for players to build roads over long distances would be even better, but to suggest any wheeled vehicles will require those roads be either perfectly flat, or made up of hundreds of meters of chiseled slabs to grade all slopes, seems like too big a concession to realism for my taste, for the same reason it would have been with horses.:edit: if you wanted to require they have sufficient room on the ledge, so they can, ex, climb a series of 3-wide, 1-high steps making a more "gradual" slope, but be unable to climb sheer 1x1 stairs, that'd seem eminently reasonable. But no climbing 1m gaps at all, seems entirely to restrictive to me.

in previous threads I've stated that if carts make it into TFC, they will only be useful on roads with chiseled slopes. Wheels have trouble with cliffs, soils and grasses. There's a reason rome built stone roads all over their empire- it's because horse carts and chariots have a heck of a time trudging through mud and sand.

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in previous threads I've stated that if carts make it into TFC, they will only be useful on roads with chiseled slopes. Wheels have trouble with cliffs, soils and grasses. There's a reason rome built stone roads all over their empire- it's because horse carts and chariots have a heck of a time trudging through mud and sand.

Stairs seem like a reasonable compromise.  Either that or make a ramp modal and ramp chisel mode.  The modal would be to eliminate the extreme lag generated by freely-chiseled entities. 

 

That said, people successfully dragged wagons across the US prairies without roads, albeit somewhat slowly.  I'd suggest a compromise, drastically reducing speed over non-flat surfaces.  After all, these Romans build the roads to increase the speed of travel, not because it was otherwise impossible.

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Stairs seem like a reasonable compromise.  Either that or make a ramp modal and ramp chisel mode.  The modal would be to eliminate the extreme lag generated by freely-chiseled entities. 

 

That said, people successfully dragged wagons across the US prairies without roads, albeit somewhat slowly.  I'd suggest a compromise, drastically reducing speed over non-flat surfaces.  After all, these Romans build the roads to increase the speed of travel, not because it was otherwise impossible.

I don't want to add carts if they're going to be too powerful, and if they can go anywhere I just don't see the point- things like this need advantages and disadvantages. It can't just be good all around. To elaborate, TFC is composed of obstacles and challenges that sort of make the player weave their way around and towards their goals. Each new challenge offers a chance for players to come up with new and interesting ways of overcoming them, and I think horse carts that can go anywhere over anything become a shortcut around and over these obstacles without posing any challenges themselves.

 

I like the "I have to do Z because I need Y to do X" mindset. I want players to have to adapt to each new technology and ability.

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I'm pretty sure the improved roman roads were efficiency upgrades, and only necessicary to support the military and economic empire, not for travel in the first place. High-volume traffic, like constant, heavy trading, or moving armies, or running supply lines, would reduce any even slightly wet areas to rutted morasses that would be faster to go around than through if they were not paved in some way. This could mean losing wars, if troops or supply lines couldn't move efficiently; it could mean famine and the virtual death of whole cities if they depended on imports for food. So their robust roads were necessary to the roman EMPIRE, but not ahard prerequisite for travel. Was some advance in cart-making was made between then and the 1600s that allowed american settlers to flock west on dirt roads?

 

In any event, I wasn't objecting to having to build roads; you should have to build roads, certainly to get any benefits to travel speed. If wagons could travel without roads, they should, in fact, be no faster than the player even under ideal conditions (flat ground) and much slower than the player in traversing even minor obstacles, while crossing mountain ranges would just be out completely untill passes were cut and cleared, with sufficiently wide switchback roads where needed. I just objected to having to have those roads be graded along their entire length, and specifically to your stated reasons why wagons couldn't climb a 1m gap under any circumstances. Given the nature of most of the terrain, though, even without having to pave with stone or grade with slabs, a not-insignificant amount of shovel and pick work would be involved in establishing efficient roads in most types of terrain. If on top of that you absolutely must lay stone and chisel grading at every incline, then roads are actually far more labor-intensive than the current railroad tracks!

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I think a good compromise would be to add a chest to the horse or mule.

As far as carts or carriages I agree with Dunk roads need slopes.

Roads will give you a great advantage on how much and how fast you can carry.

As balance they should require work.

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I think a good compromise would be to add a chest to the horse or mule.

 

You can already add a chest to Donkeys and Mules.. that's a vanilla mechanic that was not removed when TFC added in vanilla's horses.

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Thanks Kitty I had no idea.

What is your opinion on changing the terrain to make it a little easier on horses?

By the way with so many changes in B79 will there be changes to world generation?

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at the least, a gravel layer has been mentioned, now gravels for all dirt/sand/rock types and will be gravel layers I think they said between dirt and stone? so new world gen for that, at least, dunno about other changes tho

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What is your opinion on changing the terrain to make it a little easier on horses?

 

This is a mod for Minecraft. The terrain is never going to be in more gradual slopes than single block steps.

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