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Nidor

Butchery

51 posts in this topic

Hello, I had just signed up to these forums after taking a look at the suggestions.

This topic is to bridge the logical step between the Kill mobs drop corpses suggestion by cornbread4u2, and the Food suggestion by Crysyn, which would be the butchering of the corpses to use in food prepartaion.

I rather liked the suggestion of the butchery table and cleaver combo mentioned by xAxis27 in the corpses thread, and in the same thread cornbread4u2 suggested a field dressing knife, for use on the field or as the pre butchery table 'age'. I would like to flesh out this suggestion by starting with these ideas. The field dressing knife for gameplay purposes I would imagine as being low yield for materials, perhaps a single item of meat, leather or bone. That topic could be open to interpretation.

I could see the butchery table being a similar interface to the anvil is currently, with the cleaver in place of the hammer in the anvil, and with such options as cut, chop, mince or other such terms in place of the hits and punches of the anvil.

Depending on how well you do in the minigame, or perhaps rather what choices you pick on the buttons, could determine how many or what products you get out of the deal.

  • Do well on the minigame and receive the full compliment of goodies or
  • Pick specific options in the minigame and receive goodies leaning towards specific materials.
Former would be closer to a Dwarf Fortress style output while the latter is probably more of a Towns style.

Honestly I prefer the DF style, in DF butchering a full grown cow for example would give you quite a bit of unprepared meat, bones, organs, units of fat, hooves, a skull, and a skin for use with tanning, which would work with the similarly named suggestion elsewhere on this thread.

Lets say in MC terms a cow would drop at maximum 10 meat, 5 generic organ items, 10 bones, 5 fat items, 4 hooves, a skull, and a skin. for every 'mistake' or number of actions above par for an example, an item or two is removed from the output. fail too many and you could end up the butchery equivalent of slag and get a mash fit only for hotdogs and spam :P.

For an additional step in preparation there could be a grinder tool/bench for use in grinding bones or skulls to bonemeal, or grinding meat.

General direction of the tools and benches aside, what could you use with those byproducts?

Well, fats could be made into tallow, which has been used as a flux, or as a wax substitute for candles, or as one of the ingredients used to help with tanning/leather preparation. Organs could be used as casings to use up the mash for hotdogs or ground meat for sausages. They could also be used as a bowstring equivilent in the event of phasing out the fantasy style mobs of vanilla, as I've seen a few people suggest, as well as butchery being a source of bones in the event of skeletons being out.

Bonemeal I think I've heard of being used as a flux, not sure if true, or as cornbread suggested in the corpse thread, as various crude food items like bone stews or gelatins. If needed, hooves could be made into gelatin as well, and could be used in glues (possible item to help with leatherworking or woodworking or something), but that is getting off topic.

I also favor the means of needing to keep these items fresh as suggested in the Food topic, by curing or keeping cool, as I feel that, left for too long the butchered meat should turn into the rotten flesh item, another point towards efficiency in the event of zombies being nixed and having a leftover item floating in limbo.

As far as curing or seasoning and other preparation of the finished meats I will leave that to the Food topic.

Interested to hear the community's thoughts on this, as I feel it would be a subject of note as it fits to the mod precident of being inspired by Dwarf Fortress and realism. Hope I credited all the suggestions to the appropriate users.

Sorry if it dragged on a bit, it has quite a bit of room for things you could do with it.

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I prefer your DF style suggestion as well, and personally I feel any steps this mod takes away from the vanilla "crafting table" recipe format to get items is a good thing (like with this idea).

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How would you get the body of the cow to your butcher table? After killing a cow, would you pick up a "Cow Body" item? The only problem I see with this is suddenly we can carry 30 corpses around with us.

Or perhaps we'd bring the table with us, and it'd use the body on the ground nearby as a source for the items.

Oh, after you kill a mob it could place a "mob corpse" block on the ground, which can be opened and has a GUI. Inside is a small-chest sized area and a spot where you put your skinning knife or cleaver. Then, you can click on the small-chest sized area to reveal blocks (a la minesweeper), and you have a good chance of finding results. This would keep you from looting things mid-fight, and even better the longer the corpse has been on the ground the more likely the meat you reveal will be rotten or missing already. This could provide you with a good source of bones, because at the moment it's a bit hard to make bone handled tools compared to stick handled.

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For a larger animal like a cow, I could see your point, as even limiting a stack to 1 corpse would be a bit much since you could still carry a good 36 of them. I do not know if there is a way to make it so you can only have one of an item, or if you can have the corpse placed on the ground like a cake and use the field dressing kit to divvy it up, maybe into sides of beef or haunches and the like.Take it back, store and make another trip. Otherwise it would make a butchers table feature kinda useless for anything bigger than a pig.

Other possibilities if it is possible to put in, letting the player drag the corpse back via a sled of some sort, I have heard of them ranging anywhere from a simple tarp that you drag back to things that resemble two wheeled carts,

or suspend disbelief somewhat and let you carry it and move really slowly, like it does through brush or when blocking with a sword, in a sort of encumbrance aspect. The cake style corpse getting sectioned off sounds kinda neat.

In summary yeah I can see a problem with bigger animals, and if there were to be some butchery table I would recommend field butchering to give unprocessed but manageable sections. Some of these might fit in better in the kill mob drop corpse thread however, especially if new mobs are implemented that are even bigger, like bears or moose, or heck, all the way up to elephant :P.

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Just make a rope and a skid so you can drag them towards your home, and if you get wheels you can add wheels for less movement speed influence

EDIT: I first posted and then read Nidor's comment, he also said a sled :D but I do think that is the most realistic/sensemaking way of doing this

first you have do do it with just a rope, then with a little sled, then with some wooden wheels and then metal wheels. and make it like it can carry 4 chickens or 2 pigs/sheep or 1 cow

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a lot of your idea in your post are from other members and they are all separate ideas. i am glad somebody finally took them all and said, "you know what, all of these work well together and are a great idea." its also nice to see our ideas thought out and paired up with other great ideas. i would love to see all of this in game and im looking forward to it.

on to the real stuff, it is very possible for you to drag a cow home, with a few people. lets face it, a lot of people are going to be playing this in both smp and ssp, so making two people able to pull something would be awesome but unrealistic for the playability of the mod. i do however agree with being able to butchered on the field as a cake like block, and then just transporting the goods back. it makes it impossible to carry more than one at a time AND maybe it could be transported later for a more thorough cleaning/harvesting.

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i would love to see all of this in game and im looking forward to it.

...

on to the real stuff, it is very possible for you to drag a cow home, with a few people. lets face it, a lot of people are going to be playing this in both smp and ssp, so making two people able to pull something would be awesome but unrealistic for the playability of the mod. i do however agree with being able to butchered on the field as a cake like block, and then just transporting the goods back. it makes it impossible to carry more than one at a time AND maybe it could be transported later for a more thorough cleaning/harvesting.

1) Same here, it would be an amazing addition.

2) Totally agree. That's a good method since the balancing act of a realism mod can be frustrating but ideas like that are pure gold (or maybe diamond in the case of MC heh).

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Heh, just wating for a DF themed server for TFcraft, got a skin and everything that can be recolored to suit a dwarf role if someone makes one :P

There are a few mods out there that deal with encumbrace I believe, least ones that make you move slower if you wear armor. So perhaps that is another way to limit players from carrying a full cow or 30.

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There's a really, really simple way to prevent a player from carrying multiple corpses.

Each cow/pig/chicken drops a number of body parts, such as a cow drops 4x Cow Legs, 1x Cow Body, 1x Cow Head, or the torso can be split to make things more difficult, such as 1x Cow Flank and 1x Cow Torso. Even in Dwarf Fortress, body pats can be butchered like a full animal; it's also the way to get goblin/dwarf/human/elf bones; simply send your axedwarves into the fray and any limbs that are removed can be butchered.

For instance, this would work like this.

Player1 has a semi-full inventory. 10 slots used, for 2 picks, an axe, 2 shovels, 3 javelins, and 2 sets of wood. The player kills a cow, and that would take up another 4 slots, one slot with 4x Cow Legs, 1 slot with 1 Cow Head, 1 slot with 1 Cow Torso, and 1 slot with 1 Cow Flank. Then, the player kills another cow, but thanks to some easy but ingenious modding that makes each item unstackable, or in the case of the legs stackable up to 4, they would take up ANOTHER 4 slots, meaning the maximum cap the player would be able to carry is 5 full cow corpses. of course, chickens would be smaller, and have a head, 2 legs, and a body, and take up 3 slots, but since they are so small that could make sense.

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Don't forget the hide/feathers for an extra slot.

In dwarf fortress, the hide is tanned AFTER the animal is butchered. That might just make another good "stand", so players have to tan their own leather instead of just getting pre-tanned leather.

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You could still have cow skin as a separate drop. Hide doesn't exclusively mean it's been tanned to my knowledge.

Edit: Ok, I just thought of an idea (ok, maybe its actually 6 hours since I made this post, but I don't like double posting)

Anyways, you can have a GUI when you open a cake-carcass, and it will show you a large picture of the meats of whatever animal it is. Something like this. Then, you simply trace whatever part you want to get with your knife, sort of like you're cutting it out of it. Then you can pick whatever you like from the remains, and leave the rest for the buzzards/noobs. To get the bones, you need to cut off the meat around the bones, then you can trace the bones underneath to pick them up.

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With the number of threads and suggestions that exist for the butchery idea, it is obvious that it is popular and desired. What needs to happen now if we want it implemented is for interested parties to start making the art for these things. (Art is pretty time consuming for Bioxx, and I get the impression it isn't his favorite part of the process)

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Quoting myself from another thread to put my ideas in.

My rather late thoughts on skinning. I love the GUI idea but not the chest one I think an anvil like GUI would be far more purposeful. The button where you put your hammer is where you put whatever tool you are using. The buttons on the side would be what action you are going to take and then there is an output slot and maybe a little drawing of the dead animal as a space filler. Possible tools would include; scissors, several types of knives, a saw, scalpel, anything else you cut open an animal with, and possibly your hands. Also its not just hide and meat you can get from animals. What about sinew, bones, fat, maybe organs (as gross as that is), and what about beyond just cows how about feathers, ink sacs, exoskeleton, poisons (cave spiders), fungi (mooshrooms), and various other unknown things. Certain actions are only available with certain tools and if you do the actions out of order or with the wrong tool you risk destroying a part of that animal. As a side note i don't think this should be possible with a creeper i think they have a mini self destruct as they die, this explosion couldn't break or hurt anything it would just scatter gunpowder.

Edit: I forgot to say blood as an additional animal product.

So read through the comments and had an idea. Maybe there could be a butchery table and the GUI could open when the animal was right-clicked. The butchery table would be far more efficient and more resources would be received but you would have to drag the animal all the way there. You could just pull it although this would be a slow, tedious, project with a heavy animal. Or maybe you could put in a cart. Usually in a situation like this you would have your buddy help you carry it but that's not really an option. Cleaning out the animal on the spot would still be an option just less resource would be received.

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I'm feeling left out. I said a lot of these suggestions too :o:(

However I agree with most of these. One thing would be to just add an anvil-like GUI to the butchery table. And the corpse would go in there, and you would use the proper tool with the proper action to remove hide/feathers/skin, then remove organs, then if you wanted to you could get blood. That would leave a carcass that could be carved into meat.

So first would be a cow. The first thing to do would be some sort of skinning tool that would remove the hide. This could be tanned on a tanning rack to get tanned leather for other stuff. Then, using a scalpel, you could obtain organs (I'm not sure what organs you get from a cow, but a poison sac from a spider, an ink sac from a squid) then finally you get a carcass. Using a carving knife, you cut up the carcass and get a whole bunch of beef. Is this an appropriate rendition?

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Here is a small 16x16 texture of most of the features I mentioned in the OP, whipped these together real quick using bits already in the tfc texture pack so that they would look similar to what we already got. Sorry if I didn't accredit anyone, this was a topic inspired by various suggestions that I have read. I have only included the cow examples as I am lazy, but if anyone wanted more I can try to build on what I've got here.

Posted Image

Top row: butchery table, grinder, ground beef

2nd: carcass (side of beef to prevent an entire cow being in your pocket), skinned, and the skin hot dog (offal + organ)

3rd: failed product (offal), organ (intestines for casings), hoof

4th: fat, tallow, soap

In this gui example I left out the words, but you'd butcher the carcass to get the skin and fat off on the first render, leaving a partially preparred carcass. The 2nd render is for the bones, meat, and organs to fill the slots.

The skin as you might see is a fresh skin so no armor use till that is tanned as per the tanning topics. This is how I imagined everything at any rate.

here is a quick link to how the tables would look ingame, bit too large of an image.

http://img850.images...991/tablesl.png

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Here is a small 16x16 texture of most of the features I mentioned in the OP, whipped these together real quick using bits already in the tfc texture pack so that they would look similar to what we already got.

Posted Image

butchery table grinder, ground beef

carcass (side of beef), skinned, and the skin hot dog (offal + organ)

failed product (offal), organ, hoof

fat, tallow, soap

In this gui example I left out the words, but you'd butcher the carcass to get the skin off, and take the fat off for the first render, leaving another attempt for the bones, meat, and organs to fill the slots on the next go. the skin is a fresh skin so no armor use till that is tanned :P. that is how i imagined it anyways

here is a quick link to how the tables would look ingame, bit too large of an image.

http://img850.images...991/tablesl.png

...dude you should do sprite work for this game

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With the number of threads and suggestions that exist for the butchery idea, it is obvious that it is popular and desired. What needs to happen now if we want it implemented is for interested parties to start making the art for these things. (Art is pretty time consuming for Bioxx, and I get the impression it isn't his favorite part of the process)

That's why there's 2 artists on the team. We just develop the artwork as needed and that's all I do is art.

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I like these ideas but a word to RogueHydra. [whine] why did you lock my butchery thread but not this one? [/whine]

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I don't think that was me. At least, I don't remember doing any thread locking (I'm not sure where the button or what ever is).

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I don't think that was me. At least, I don't remember doing any thread locking (I'm not sure where the button or what ever is).

Well the last post is you and I'm pretty sure it was you...
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OMG this idea is awesome.... that would add so much more deep to the game

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Excuse me, you see that blue buttoninevery post of every topic? the one that says "like this"? yeah, you could try and press it instead of making this kind of posts ;)

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