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Miner239

'Energy' Nutrition and Hunger changes

18 posts in this topic

Can I propose a change to health, hunger, and nutrition?

 

A new bar, Energy, is added to the nutrition tab. It is longer than other bars so players can estimate their energy quickly. This bar is what's drained when you do activity. You start with 90% energy. This roughly represents 180 hunger + saturation points in vanilla, which means you can break 4000 blocks and walk 10000 blocks in an instant. However, as with other nutrition, energy also drains over time. The rate is about 0.015(+.001 per level) pt per second. That translates to 12000 seconds or 200 minutes, 10 days doing nothing. This represents starvation IRL close enough. Max increased by .5 every level.

 

The hunger bar now only represent your stomach fullness. When it's empty, you will drain nutrition faster. You may get random nausea and little damage from the empty stomach.However, you also eat faster. Is reducing the amount every tick eating the food possible? Like, the animation of eating play for 2 seconds and you've eaten 2 oz of food, whatever it is. The readying animation doesn't count as eating, though.

 

Sooo.... How's my suggestion? Inspired by www.unrealworld.fi]UnReal World(URW).

 

 

 

if you were going the route of having a separate "stomach/hunger" and "energy" thing, I think you'd want to go one step further with it and have different food groups digest at different speeds. The energy bar would really be what the hunger bar is now, showing your energy level, with pain and death if it's too low. The stomach would be a mixed meter, composed of up to 5 different segments for the 5 food groups - I'm picturing a single bar, with colors for groups. Food in the stomach would "digest," the stomach/hunger bar emptying into the energy bar. If the energy bar is full, the potential energy from the food is just lost. Different food groups would digest at different rates; fruit, being very sugary, would digest the fastest, while proteins would digest the slowest. So on the brink of dying from lack of energy, you'd want an apple, not a steak, to help quickly.

 

Some examples of how this would play out... if you had an empty stomach and filled it with meat, the meter would be full with the meat color (brown?), and you could go for a long time that way without eating again, but you'd get exhausted frequently if you tried to dig or sprint a lot. Good for walking across a desert, not so good for mining or fighting mobs. If you filled your stomach entirely with fruit, you'd have tons of energy, could sprint, jump around, and dig almost constantly without depleting the energy bar - but your stomach bar would empty very quickly, and if you weren't being very active, most of the fruit's energy would just be wasted, lost to energy meter overflow.

 

Not sure how well that would balance out, though, and it is possibly too complicated to be fun? Great idea!

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It should be noted that you don't actually take starvation damage until your nutrition profile is less than 80%, which already simulates a good chunk of this suggestion.

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Isn't a normal green bar already representing energy? Why do we need a second one?

 

Edit:

I get it now. But then stomach fullness will not supposed to immediately affect energy/nutrition/whatever. And that would mean a pretty funny situations of people dying of hunger while chomping on some beef steak.

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And what do you exactly mean with that last edit sentence, Gopher? I cant brain that sentence.

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And what do you exactly mean with that last edit sentence, Gopher? I cant brain that sentence.

Once you detach an player energy component from stomach fullness, I'll then expect stomach to be an inner reserve of nutrition and energy that is converted into player's energy as stomach empties rather than immediately be available. That would mean a second inner nutrition pool that is filled by eating and is empying into the main pool at a certain speed. Such speed should depend on current player activity, but be capped at some arbitrary point.

 

This in its turn does open a possibility for someone to die of hunger while he is eating or even has full stomach. In certain conditions.

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You can always eat sugar. Or Kitty can make us able to do that.

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if you were going the route of having a separate "stomach/hunger" and "energy" thing, I think you'd want to go one step further with it and have different food groups digest at different speeds. The energy bar would really be what the hunger bar is now, showing your energy level, with pain and death if it's too low. The stomach would be a mixed meter, composed of up to 5 different segments for the 5 food groups - I'm picturing a single bar, with colors for groups. Food in the stomach would "digest," the stomach/hunger bar emptying into the energy bar. If the energy bar is full, the potential energy from the food is just lost. Different food groups would digest at different rates; fruit, being very sugary, would digest the fastest, while proteins would digest the slowest. So on the brink of dying from lack of energy, you'd want an apple, not a steak, to help quickly.

 

Some examples of how this would play out... if you had an empty stomach and filled it with meat, the meter would be full with the meat color (brown?), and you could go for a long time that way without eating again, but you'd get exhausted frequently if you tried to dig or sprint a lot. Good for walking across a desert, not so good for mining or fighting mobs. If you filled your stomach entirely with fruit, you'd have tons of energy, could sprint, jump around, and dig almost constantly without depleting the energy bar - but your stomach bar would empty very quickly, and if you weren't being very active, most of the fruit's energy would just be wasted, lost to energy meter overflow.

 

Not sure how well that would balance out, though, and it is possibly too complicated to be fun?

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YES! That's what I've been thinking for so long! Adding to OP.

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Sounds like you're trying to represent blood sugar.

 

 

As I understand it, this is sort of deriving the hunger bar, in the same way that the hunger bar was derived from the health bar. Before minecraft was released, food directly replenished your health. The hunger bar inserted another meter which the players instead had to maintain which affected how they healed. This made sense, as food doesn't directly heal people. This seems like the same thing again- food that you've eaten isn't directly consumed by activity, and instead burns energy that you've extracted from the food. The hunger bar is regenerated instantly when food is consumed and heals the player slowly, however when food is consumed IRL, it's not directly converted into usable energy- people don't eat an apple mid-marathon and suddenly realize they can sprint again. I believe that is what this suggestion would replicate, but I wonder if that's really necessary. If it could be done such that it made sense to the player, it offered new and interesting challenges and it's own advantages, I could see it working quite well, but I'm not sure that it does those things. It sounds like just another layer of waiting for bars to replenish.

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It's somewhat like blood sugar. Meat really does take longer to digest, and provides less energy over a longer period of time compared to fruit. I'm not sure the reality is a gradual curve across food groups, but it's not completely ungrounded and could be believable.

The way I'm picturing it, it doesn't really add a new meter, it expands on the hidden meter used now for sprinting. As long as something is in your stomach (hunger meter), the energy meter wouldn't stay empty long enough to suffer ill effects. So on starvation, the energy meter would be a bit of a buffer before actual starvation, similar to the nutrition bars now.

As for if this adds more interesting gameplay or just more complexity, I agree I'm not certain. I do kindof like the idea of limited diets affecting lifestyle choices, though; a forager in a warm climate might run around a lot, but have to be constantly foraging for more fruit, while someone living in a colder climate and getting most food from meat has to be more deliberate, but can take their time between hunting trips to get things done. There may be other ramifications in practice, but in principle it sounds good to me.

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Yeah, it's somewhat like blood sugar. It's...... the total usable energy in your body. Gained by digesting food.

 

oh wait wat another gopher

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Question. What about healing health?

Will that still be with the hunger bar, or will you need a full energy bar to fill your health bar?

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Both energy and fullness will be used up to heal. Those proteins need energy to move, y'know.

 

For the fullness...

 

Let's say you eat 5 oz of beef and 10 oz of cherry. There would be an array like this:

[500][25][83.5][14] . . . . . . . . . . . . (.167 energy per .01 oz)

[500][200][22.25][6] . . . . . . . . . . . . (.0445 energy per .01 oz)

[500][200][22.25][0]

 

Now, what does these mean? The first one is the amount eaten. The second one is the weight of digestion. The third one the energy stored(per 4 kcal, taken from this). The fourth one is the seconds since eaten. When the ticker asks to digest, there will be a weight system to determine which one would be digested in that tick. Now...

 

12570 (500*30+14*5)

100030 (oh you know)

100000

 

That's the weight of each eaten food. The cherry will obviously be digested first while the beef digests slower because of the cherry.

 

Comment?

 

EDIT: Scrap this. Fruits digests faster, not more likely.

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No idea what you just said, but....

As long as you don't need to fill the hunger bar to fill the energy bar to fill the health bar, I think it's a fine idea

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I like realistic things on the game, but I think there is a line.

Having to fill the hunger to fill the energy witch will also be dependent on the health or whatever other combination is a little bit too much even for me. 

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Soo... what stuff would you guys want to clear up?

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So far, the idea seems to be to have a separate bar filed by the hunger bar that is used to move and do things, and if it gets depleted, you starve to death.

However, it also seems like natural health regeneration, instead of just using the hunger bar, will use both hunger and energy, instead of just hunger.

 

I think it would be nice if things worked like this:

  • Energy is needed to move around, and if it depletes, you starve. However, it does not effect your health regeneration directly, instead it effects the rate you health regenerates. At full energy, it'll regenerate fast, at 0 energy, it'll regenerate at a very very slow rate(or not regenerate, I suppose).

 

  • Hunger will be what regenerates health, like normal, however, having no hunger will not make you starve to death, you'll simply stop regenerating health and energy.
  • Hunger will also no longer be effected by your movements, and simply drain on it's own if health or energy is depleted in a attempt to fill up your health and energy.

 

So... what do you people think?

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Yes! Nice idea, Allen.

 

Also, maybe...:

 

  • Fruit and Vegetable also governs regen speed along with energy, drained by hydration loss.
  • Grain and Protein acts as another energy pool. When your stomach is empty, your body will convert these to energy with a reduced conversion ratio but quicker rate to keep energy from free falling.
  • Dairy still acts as a health booster.
  • Nutrition is gained from digestion.
  • The NBT array I made up is now [amount][digestionRate][energy][time][grain][protein][fruit][vegetable][dairy][water] to accomodate meals.
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