Sticks

[Kazerima 4]

So, I've reached a steady point in the tech just climbing out of the stone age into the early copper while digging to find material for bronze. As wooden logs are the primary building material, I tend to go about hacking down my trees, replanting, and waiting for the next harvest as I wander chopping more trees to fuel my construction project of building a stable mineshaft into the earth. However, I find myself burdened with an overabundance of sticks.

 

Normally, an overabundance of a resource isn't normally a problem, and I can see that the firestarter being both made of sticks and consuming sticks to create firepits at least gives them purpose, along with tool handles and ladders, but with the sort of tree-hacking necessary to really advance in the game while still being able to plant saplings for more, this simple abundance has turned into an almost plague. A day's labor may yield about 11 saplings, two stacks of wood, and a stack of sticks. The saplings I can use for replanting tall trees whose leaves I don't want to bother breaking, the wood is used for everything, but sticks... I already have around 12-14 stacks of sticks without purpose.

 

I can't call this a suggestion, I've moved away from producing solutions outright as part of courtesy to the BetterThanWolves mindset, but I felt this rather merited the attention of the dev team and certainly sheds light on the reason so many stick and sapling related suggestions tend to be cropping up.

 

To end, I leave you with a picture of my mining facility.

[GopherAtl 22]

I feel your pain on the plague that is surplus sticks, but I don't really see it as a problem that needs to be addressed. So what if we get more sticks than are useful? Nothing but a packrat mindset prevents you from just throwing away the excess sticks.

 

The other major uses of sticks you don't mention is ladders and torches, which are reason enough for me to keep at least one large chest full of sticks around.

[Kazerima 4]

I find throwing things away to be more of a sign they lack the proper scarcity or purpose in the fine-tuned balance of a game. Torches are two per stick, the time investment in actually lighting them is more of an issue than the material costs. Ladders I did indeed mention, and they are important enough to keep sticks around for, though I still tend to have more of them than I ever really need. Maybe it's not as much an issue if I cover everything in ladders, though I leave that decision to the devs.

[GopherAtl 22]

there are points early-game when sticks are scarce enough as-is, so you can't really make them more scarce without screwing up early-game. And I don't see anything wrong with an early resource being abundant far beyond need later; stone is really the same way, unless you're building some megalithic projects, by the time you're at the high-tier metals, all the mining you've done will likely have yielded far more stone than you're ever going to need. So I disagree with it being a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

If you really had to come up with a purpose, perhaps 9 sticks could be crafted into a bundle of sticks, which could be used as fuel in place of logs in fire pits? they might burn about the same heat as the colder-burning logs but not last nearly as long. Might be able to place them in wood piles like logs, too, or even use them as a building material. I dunno. None of those things seem necessary, so to me it seems like just contriving a way to solve a non-problem.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I really do like the stick bundle idea as a fuel. I'd have to talk to bioxx about it though.

[Kazerima 4]

Considering the fact logs and such are a material you really do need the whole game through, since they're one of the few gravity defying blocks and they're essential for mineshafts, A later-game use for mass quantites would be good, and the 'stick bundles' is a sensible choice. Moving into full-on suggestion territory, I would think they should only burn at a rather low temperature to cook food and nothing else, or burn for long enough to only cook one item, so as not to obsoletize the uses for cooking with logs.

[Palisight 34]

After looking at the picture of your mining facility, I'm kind of wondering if the reason you have so many sticks is you are using too much wood.

 

You only showed the one picture, but does that mean you actually place logs all over your mines?

 

Unless its a aesthetic choice, is it to prevent cave-ins? If so, do you not know about support beams?

 

http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Support_Beams

 

And in case you haven't figured out, yet suggestions are fine as long as they aren't suggesting a more accurate propick, NPCs, feces, genitalia, graphic diseases, salt from salt water, or firearms

 

Of course most suggestions aren't likely to be implemented. But you aren't going to be yelled at unless you start posting the above suggestions. People may not like your suggestions (especially if you want the game to be harder), but you won't be yelled at by Kitty

[Kittychanley 1,002]

More uses for sticks has been discussed a lot in the past, and the key counter-argument is that your excess of sticks is entirely based on your playstyle. I myself, even after having an established home and a large tree farm, am actually constantly running out of sticks. Here's a list of all the things that I use sticks for, that actually eats them up quite quickly:

 

• Tool Handles - For things like hammers, knives, hoes for tilling a large farm, spindles for wool, and even shovels if I don't have a metal one already made, I usually make a bunch of stone tools over making a single metal one.
• Fire Starters - We usually keep a double chest of firestarters next to the forge, and next to our charcoal pit area, mainly because we haven't gotten to wrought iron yet to make a flint & steel.
• Bow & Arrows - The bow is my weapon of choice with the exception of a mace for skeletons. A lot of times I don't bother going to pick up the arrows if the mobs are far away, because its so cheap to just make more.
• Signs - I label everything! Especially on a private multiplayer server.. I have to have a sign on just about all the things in order to keep some sort of organization when playing with messy boys.
• Ladders - Every time I come across a new stone layer, I dig straight down to do a core sample to see what stone type is in all three layers. This comes in handy later when searching for specific ores, or a specific rock to build with. On average it usually takes a stack and a half (64+32) ladders in order to get all the way down to the bottom layer.. Thats 224 sticks, or 3.5 stacks of sticks.. just for a single tunnel down (Please double check my math).
• Item Frames - Once we have a good leather supply going, I usually switch out my signs with item frames in the storage room.
• Paintings - Because I like pretty pictures on the walls of my massive house.
• Fishing Rods - For those rare cases when we screwed up somehow, and food is tight.
• Torches - Light up all the things! I keep at least a vessel full of torches (4 stacks) with me when exploring, mainly for if I come across a cave.
• Firepits - A quick and cheap way to heat up my meals when I'm out exploring
• Rails - We haven't progressed this far yet, but eventually there will be a lot of rails going back and forth to the mines and such.

[TonyLiberatto 364]

One solution would be to have trees producing nuts, cones etc that we could just right click. the same way we do for fruits on fruit trees.

As discussed here http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/6419-to-make-each-age-in-tfc-longer/

This way you only need to break leaves if you need sticks.

[Kazerima 4]

@Palisight & Djakuta

I do know of them (support beams), and have a few already in use, but... since I'm still in the copper stage I'd much rather not consume any more durability from my saw if I can help it right now. Logs are cheaper, and as I dig down I'm turning the shaft into a massive underground storage facility. Generally, the culture I'm coming from though frowns on actual suggestions as opposed to simply getting notified of anything balancewise that feels off, then the maker of the mod likes to come up with his own solutions. In essence, the suggestions act more as a barometer as to what kinds of issues a player may be having rather than actual solutions the game needs.

 

@Kitty

I'm sure once I get a bow my stance will change, so I guess that makes sense.

[GopherAtl 22]

heh. The odds of a suggestion being taken aren't that high, but they're probably at least a bit higher here than in the BTW community. More importantly, the only suggestions I've seen met with hostility are the handful of most common suggestions that are explicitly listed in the sticky "don't suggest these" thread. And I've yet to see anyone banned for a suggestion. Also, the suggestion subforum is active and not at all locked to prevent any posts.

[Palisight 34]

FlowerChild is a much better game designer than he is a java programmer. And he spent his career working on games he couldn't stand. Better than Wolves is his masterpiece. He doesn't want anyone else having any sort of say in how his masterpiece is designed

 

From what I`ve seen of dunkleosteus, he’s a better programmer than a game designer. Bioxx doesn`t say much on the forums, so it’s kind of hard to tell where his talents are.

 

TFC needs a lot of work, but seeing how we can`t read Bioxx`s list of things to be implemented we can`t tell if he knows something is an issue and plans to deal with it x releases from now or if he never thought of it.

 

FlowerChild hated when people suggested things he was planning to implement (he wanted to make sure everyone knew it was his idea). The TFC devs don`t acknowledge those occurrences as being a problem. If it personally bothers them, they haven`t said anything.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

 the suggestions act more as a barometer as to what kinds of issues a player may be having rather than actual solutions the game needs.

 

I really like the way you've phrased that. We have certainly been inspired by the suggestions forum in the past, and probably will in the future. I like to start discussions about the design of features when the community proposes them and to suggest ways that features may be implemented in the game. The forums are a great source of data about what the community thinks is right or wrong with the game, and I think it's been incredibly useful.

[furiousuk 2]

Unless they're a jerk, I'm unsure why any developer would actively discourage suggestions.

 

Who cares where the idea for a feature/enhancement comes from so long as its implementation makes the product better?

 

No ones getting paid based on their ideas.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Unless they're a jerk, I'm unsure why any developer would actively discourage suggestions. 

 

Who cares where the idea for a feature/enhancement comes from so long as its implementation makes the product better?

 

No ones getting paid based on their ideas. 

I'd have to disagree strongly with the last one. That is entirely what consultants are for.

[furiousuk 2]

I'd have to disagree strongly with the last one. That is entirely what consultants are for.

 

Yeah, I meant no-ones getting paid for ideas for minecraft mods, not for TFC and BTW anyways.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

Yeah, I meant no-ones getting paid for ideas for minecraft mods, not for TFC and BTW anyways.

this is correct

[jammasterz 7]

It would be nice if they could be stacked on the ground like logs but instead of 4 stacks of 16, maybe 4 stacks of 64.

 

I don't know if it can be done in real life, but you might also be able to use the piles in the charcoal pit(of course with lesser charcoal gain). 

2 very easy things to implement that completely solve this problem.

[Palisight 34]

You could make charcoal out of bundles of sticks. The question is how many sticks would it take to be a 1 m^3 bundle

[Kazerima 4]

Unless they're a jerk, I'm unsure why any developer would actively discourage suggestions.

 

Who cares where the idea for a feature/enhancement comes from so long as its implementation makes the product better?

 

No ones getting paid based on their ideas.

 

Well, there is a story to this, so gather round and I'll tell the story of why FlowerChild hates suggestions.

 

It used to be, back in yonder days of lore, he actually rather encouraged suggstions, and implimented them when he felt them worthy enough of adding to the mod. However, as days went by, the signal to noise ratio of viable suggestions began to dampen as more and more players began playing the mod, each with their own visions on how he should have built it. Many of these suggestions were all the same, crying out for "steam power" and "diamond bladed saws" all self justified beneath the slipshod banner of "moar realism". Hours he would spend pouring through crap suggestions from players who never bothered to read about the others who suggested before, the same topics rearing their ugly heads again and again with each smite of the mighty banhammer. When eventually another idea came about worth doing, he found it hard to remember whether he'd come up with the idea himself, or if he'd just be implimenting some other person's desire to force the game to their mould. He actively enjoyed the problem solving aspect of figuring out what features to add, wanting to savor the pleasure of building his own mod for himself, by himself, to be shared with others of likened mind. But the trolls never ceased, the cries for obvious low hanging fruit unending, until finally, on a darkened day he decided to begin bringing the mod to close, the suggestions forum was locked once and for all. Some say suggestions still rear their ugly heads in the balance observation section, others have glimpsed them in the addons, but now they are forever met with the swing of that most terrible bludgeon. Smote into exile from that sheltered garden community of the official game forums.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Well, there is a story to this, so gather round and I'll tell the story of why FlowerChild hates suggestions.

 

It used to be, back in yonder days of lore, he actually rather encouraged suggstions, and implimented them when he felt them worthy enough of adding to the mod. However, as days went by, the signal to noise ratio of viable suggestions began to dampen as more and more players began playing the mod, each with their own visions on how he should have built it. Many of these suggestions were all the same, crying out for "steam power" and "diamond bladed saws" all self justified beneath the slipshod banner of "moar realism". Hours he would spend pouring through crap suggestions from players who never bothered to read about the others who suggested before, the same topics rearing their ugly heads again and again with each smite of the mighty banhammer. When eventually another idea came about worth doing, he found it hard to remember whether he'd come up with the idea himself, or if he'd just be implimenting some other person's desire to force the game to their mould. He actively enjoyed the problem solving aspect of figuring out what features to add, wanting to savor the pleasure of building his own mod for himself, by himself, to be shared with others of likened mind. But the trolls never ceased, the cries for obvious low hanging fruit unending, until finally, on a darkened day he decided to begin bringing the mod to close, the suggestions forum was locked once and for all. Some say suggestions still rear their ugly heads in the balance observation section, others have glimpsed them in the addons, but now they are forever met with the swing of that most terrible bludgeon. Smote into exile from that sheltered garden community of the official game forums.

 

Which is why our Suggestions forum has a set of rules in place regarding duplicate posts which results in merging and not deleting, to prevent exactly this from happening.

[Kazerima 4]

Which is why our Suggestions forum has a set of rules in place regarding duplicate posts which results in merging and not deleting, to prevent exactly this from happening.

 

The main issue is that of the good intentions of the admins against the laziness of the average minecraft player. In general though, the main problem was people's suggestions were wasting his time and interfering with his design process, though a few from people who'd played a lot still got in every now and then. There was also a whole problem with the forum mods who would have helped with that stuff, but some of them backstabbed him and he erased the moderator positions.

[GopherAtl 22]

Well, there is a story to this, so gather round and I'll tell the story of why FlowerChild hates suggestions.

 

It used to be, back in yonder days of lore, he actually rather encouraged suggstions, and implimented them when he felt them worthy enough of adding to the mod. However, as days went by, the signal to noise ratio of viable suggestions began to dampen as more and more players began playing the mod, each with their own visions on how he should have built it. Many of these suggestions were all the same, crying out for "steam power" and "diamond bladed saws" all self justified beneath the slipshod banner of "moar realism". Hours he would spend pouring through crap suggestions from players who never bothered to read about the others who suggested before, the same topics rearing their ugly heads again and again with each smite of the mighty banhammer. When eventually another idea came about worth doing, he found it hard to remember whether he'd come up with the idea himself, or if he'd just be implimenting some other person's desire to force the game to their mould. He actively enjoyed the problem solving aspect of figuring out what features to add, wanting to savor the pleasure of building his own mod for himself, by himself, to be shared with others of likened mind. But the trolls never ceased, the cries for obvious low hanging fruit unending, until finally, on a darkened day he decided to begin bringing the mod to close, the suggestions forum was locked once and for all. Some say suggestions still rear their ugly heads in the balance observation section, others have glimpsed them in the addons, but now they are forever met with the swing of that most terrible bludgeon. Smote into exile from that sheltered garden community of the official game forums.

 

That's a fine tale. Very compelling. Very... familiar.

 

Familiar, because every suggestion forum in the history of suggestion forums is exactly like that. The only unique factor in the story is FC's chosen strategy for dealing with it. The more usual response is for the devs not to read the suggestion forum, or at least, not read it faster than their forum moderators can prune the worst offending posts, and ban the repeat offenders who keep suggesting things from the nigh-universal, stickied "don't suggest these common suggestions" threads.

[rhodance 37]

just for color variety, can we get a way to make stick blocks like we have thatch blocks? because i sometimes am building something and think thatch is just a little too yellow/light.

[smoothpop 3]

i was thinking of a way of using sticks and wool yarn(both things i always have an abundance of on my sp world) my idea was a stick Lilly pad so to speak i dont know what the crafting recipe should be but im pretty sure the Greeks and Persians used them. and there is some evidence to suggest that Alexander used them in northern India militarily, so  there is a historical president.

 

i would find them usefull for my semi regular passages across rivers, as i tend to explore a lot and there are many rivers that i cross regularly on my trips out of my local 1km area  as they are not crossed regularly enough nor close enough to my home to warrant such a standout and substantial structure like a bridge.

 

perhaps the crafting recepe could be the same as a ladder with 2 wool yarn in the remaining empty slots and they can only be placed on water when adjacent to a solid block of another stick-lilly thing

 

well thats my idea for that id also give a +1 to stick thatch block and firepit fuel bundles too