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transcengopher

Slow down on animal model details

Mob Models   35 members have voted

  1. 1. Select any and all animals that you feel have models that are too detailed and should be simplified to fit with Minecraft's style. (You can check more than one box at a time).

    • Pheasants
      0
    • Deer
      5
    • Bears - New Model
      2
    • Bears - Current Model
      0
    • Cows (Horns)
      0
    • Roosters
      0
    • Pigs (Tusks)
      0
    • Fish - New Mob
      3
    • Sheep (Horns)
      0
    • None - I think all of Dunk's models are fine.
      27
  2. 2. Do you think that all of the custom animal models in TFC look good alongside the vanilla ones?

    • Yes
      10
    • No - The custom models should be simplified.
      3
    • No - TFC should add new, more detailed models to replace the vanilla ones.
      22

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

46 posts in this topic

Might I say, the head on the new bear model looks great, and I hope it can somehow be included in the reworked model of the bear. I think the new deer models also fits in nicely, so props on that. As well, I really enjoy the fish model, and hope it doesn't get changed to much. Just because the fish is composed of many small pieces doesn't mean those pieces(blocks) have to move independently of each other, does it? It seems like if just the tail/body swayed in the water, and the rest was for the most part stationary to each other it would look fine. Another thing, I'm assuming when everyone says things like "models should match vanilla models more closely", that doesn't mean vanilla models (like pigs and cows) aren't going to be reworked for TFC in the future?

Anyhow, keep up the great work!

I have no plans to change the fish. it's quite simple already

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On the topic of models, one thing that really annoyed me when I first saw it was the "model" for placed vessels and clay items. They really broke the immersion for me, and really didn't look good anywhere, causing me to "hide" the placed vessels, instead of proudly displaying them on a counter-top or shelf. It was kind of disappointing, Honestly I would have even been happier with a poor model with a texture, such as vanilla minecraft's horrible flower pot. I'm not asking for a detailed vessel model with curves, but some simple 3D object would be REALLY nice. If the issue with it is performance, then just add an option for disabling it in the new config option menu. That aside, great work on the mod, I love the depth of the features and the direction the mod is going in. Keep up the good work and amazing models.

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On the topic of models, one thing that really annoyed me when I first saw it was the "model" for placed vessels and clay items. They really broke the immersion for me, and really didn't look good anywhere, causing me to "hide" the placed vessels, instead of proudly displaying them on a counter-top or shelf. It was kind of disappointing, Honestly I would have even been happier with a poor model with a texture, such as vanilla minecraft's horrible flower pot. I'm not asking for a detailed vessel model with curves, but some simple 3D object would be REALLY nice. If the issue with it is performance, then just add an option for disabling it in the new config option menu. That aside, great work on the mod, I love the depth of the features and the direction the mod is going in. Keep up the good work and amazing models.

I actually made a 3d model way back for the vessels or any clay items, but it looked a little TOO real lol. We may move towards the flower-pot type models in the future, as we've "sort" of started it in b79. The crucible is sort of an example of it.

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I actually made a 3d model way back for the vessels or any clay items, but it looked a little TOO real lol. We may move towards the flower-pot type models in the future, as we've "sort" of started it in b79. The crucible is sort of an example of it.

 

To add onto this, please keep in mind the scale that we are working with. Trying to fit 4 3-D models within a single block is going to result in either super tiny models, or removing the feature of putting more than one in a block (which would result in everyone having to make 4 times as many pit kilns).

 

Take a look at the vanilla flower pot. Now imagine cramming 4 of those flower pots into a single block sitting side by side.

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I actually made a 3d model way back for the vessels or any clay items, but it looked a little TOO real lol. We may move towards the flower-pot type models in the future, as we've "sort" of started it in b79. The crucible is sort of an example of it.

I'm interested of how your "a little too real" vessel model looked like, if you still have it :)Could you post a picture of it?
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I'm interested of how your "a little too real" vessel model looked like, if you still have it :)

Could you post a picture of it?

I believe this is what you're looking for: 

 

I coded 3D pots before pottery was even really complete last summer but they were vetoed. I've posted the link a lot, but since it's relevant, I can do it again:

 

Posted Image

This is actually a really old image and the code is much more up to date now and handles a lot better. Pretty dynamic too, you can do a lot with it. In this image, all I've done is switched out the ingot model for this pottery model, which is why the pot is the colour of an iron ingot, and why there are ingots on my hotbar.

 

As far as lag, I was messing around with different shapes and i only noticed lag on my laptop when I had full (64) stacks of ingot-pots each with 100 layers. (The pots are created by specifying layers, which are then rendered with 8 faces for each space between two layers. The pot in the image has 7 layers) which would be roughly the same as having 224 full pottery blocks on your screen at once (64 pots in a block with 100 layers vs 4 pots in a block with 7 layers = 16 times the number of pots with 14 times the number of layers = 14 x 16 = 224). Just some math for anyone who wanted it.

 

Fire pit hasn't been attempted for 3d rendering. Personally, i kind of like them the way they are.

 
Question: If we can have 3D models for placed ingots, why can't we have it for vessels? I think the fact that ingots can be placed and rendered in 3D contrasts highly with the spinning sprites we have for pottery. Also, while I'm at it, I'm going to express my desire for more 3D models in the game, using the example of mods like thaumcraft to back up my position. One of the main things that makes thaumcraft so awesome is the detailed 3D models and animations. Sure, functionality may be more important, but having some decent 3D models for certain very used items/blocks is really nice, and just adds to the overall quality and professionalism of the mod. Here's a link to another thread that touches on the topic of 3D models and has some interesting images: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/5003-3d-models-yay-nay-addons/
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Question: If we can have 3D models for placed ingots, why can't we have it for vessels? I think the fact that ingots can be placed and rendered in 3D contrasts highly with the spinning sprites we have for pottery. Also, while I'm at it, I'm going to express my desire for more 3D models in the game, using the example of mods like thaumcraft to back up my position.

 

Like I stated before. Comparing ingot piles to pottery doesn't really work, because you can stack ingots very nicely. Pottery is all sorts of random shapes, so it's really hard to cram 4 different models into the same block and still have it look good. The only way that I can see 3D pottery happening is if it is changed to 1 piece per block. The plus side of doing that is that we would then be able to possibly consider accessing a vessel's contents while it is placed on the ground. The down side is that the amount of space required to store stuff, and the number of pit kilns that you have to fire was just multiplied by 4. That means that to fire 4 items, instead of taking 8 straw and 8 logs, it would take you 32 straw and 32 logs.

 

One of the major reasons I think that Bioxx shot down Dunk's pottery model is exactly that desire that you just expressed. As soon as we add in a model for one thing, you guys are going to complain until there are models for everything. A key difference between TFC and Thaumcraft is that the thaumcraft dev started creating his mod based on the idea of making it look awesome. I can guarantee you that many features and content of thaumcraft is pushed back because making things look pretty took priority.

 

The development style of TFC is definitely function over form. We want everything working properly as the absolute first priority. Only after all of that has been finalized can the time be taken to go back and make things look pretty. TFC is a massive mod. If we worried about absolutely everything looking amazing, we wouldn't get anywhere in actual feature progression.

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I'm not sure how I would feel about 3d pottery, so I'm not endorsing that suggestion or anything, but...  I'm really not following your argument about the models not fitting 4 to a block. If you can constrain the models to fit in a block, you can scale them by half and they fit in an 8th of a block (4 on bottom layer, no stacking)...? how "random" the shapes are doesn't seem relevant, in either the 1 per block or 4 per block - or, hell, 16 per block - you have the same, very simple, cubic bounding box all the shapes must fit in, just larger or smaller...?

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I'm not sure how I would feel about 3d pottery, so I'm not endorsing that suggestion or anything, but...  I'm really not following your argument about the models not fitting 4 to a block. If you can constrain the models to fit in a block, you can scale them by half and they fit in an 8th of a block (4 on bottom layer, no stacking)...? how "random" the shapes are doesn't seem relevant, in either the 1 per block or 4 per block - or, hell, 16 per block - you have the same, very simple, cubic bounding box all the shapes must fit in, just larger or smaller...?

 

Keep in mind the default resolution for a texture of a block (16x16). The models need to have a certain blockiness that goes along with that in order for them to actually fit within the block, and still look good at such a small scale. Take Dunk's above vessel model, in order to fit 4 of those inside of a single block, it would have to be scaled down to 1/4th the volume, cutting each dimension in half. That 16 pixel tall pot is now only 8 pixels tall, and 8 pixels wide. The majority of the detail is lost, and the walls of the pot will almost seem ridiculously thin. When taking a larger model and scaling it down to fit into that itty bitty space, it just doesn't look good.

 

To help get the point across, here's a picture of a chiseled block that takes up the maximum amount of space that the model can. Next to it is my player, and a flower pot for scale:

 

Posted Image

 

With the exception of pottery that makes sense to be tall and skinny, that block would essentially be cut in half for height as well.

 

A flower pot is 6 pixels wide, with walls 1 pixel thick. In order for the pottery to really look good, all of its parts at a minimum should be 1 pixel thick. There can still be angles in the model, but the wall should still be thick along those angles.

 

I would imagine the vessel would have to be something similar to just a slightly larger flower pot that has some sort of neck. However, vessels aren't the only pottery item. In order to add models for the vessels, you would also have to add models for the jugs, the ingot molds, all of the tool molds, the fire bricks, and any other item in the future that would be fired in a pit kiln. I just don't see being able to make models that would look good on such an itty bitty scale and still have any sort of distinguishing details.

 

Now, the argument can be made that we are currently fitting 2 16x items side by side in the block, and therefore you could possibly scale it as being 32 pixels wide, instead of only 16. However, place down a flower pot and take a good long look at its rim. Now imagine a vessel that has walls that are only half of that thickness. To me, it would seem like that would be an extremely fragile piece of pottery, and not something you easily fit 4 stacks of small items inside of.

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Not entirely certain how people would welcome this idea nor how one would implement it exactly, but 'a' solution to the issue would be to add a proper kiln to the mix. It could be another use for fire clay, which as I understand the devs (or at the very least dunk) are always looking for more uses for some stuff. There is a historical precedent of bricked kilns existing pretty early in the grand scheme of things, I'm a bit fuzzy on the dates so I'll leave those be for the time being. If we used fire clay obviously this would be a post stone age technology, but it could be used as a way to facilitate multiple items cooking, as you wouldn't necessarily need to render the individual pots/vessels/molds.

 

In short we could 'have our cake and eat it as well', so they say. Just a thought.

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Oh, I guess I could post the images of the model I made for kitty earlier. Obviously vessels are the easiest model to create, and the tool i made can't really handle asymmetric shapes.

 

Posted Image

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how old are those pictures, dunk?

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Oh, I guess I could post the images of the model I made for kitty earlier. Obviously vessels are the easiest model to create, and the tool i made can't really handle asymmetric shapes.

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

how old are those pictures, dunk?

The one up there is from yesterday. I dug up the old code and designed the vessel. It's really simple, the whole thing is just a few lines:

Object[] dataArray = new Object[10];dataArray[0] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,0,8,8};dataArray[9] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,1,8,5};dataArray[1] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,4,8,13};dataArray[8] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,4,8,9};dataArray[2] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,11,8,12};dataArray[7] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,11,8,9};dataArray[3] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,13,8,8};dataArray[6] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,13,8,5};dataArray[4] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,15,8,8};dataArray[5] = new float[] {0,0,0,8,15,8,5};

Obviously the code that builds the model is separate, but that's all that defines the shape.

 

The format is (float originX, float originY, float originZ, float offsetX, float offsetY, float offsetZ, float width)

The first 3 floats define where the model is located, the next 3 define where the "centre" of the layer is and the last defines the diameter of a circle around that centre. The length of the array is irrelevant. Adjacent Objects are assumed to be attached together, and so squares are built between them. The first ring is assumed to be the bottom, so it is closed off. Optionally, you can seal the top so that that the interior is fully contained. I do that here. The reason I have started at index 0 and index 9 and count up and down is because the first 5 indexes represent the outside of the vessel, and the last 5 represent the interior, corresponding to the exterior but counting down.

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I think adding only the clay vessel as a 3d model, leaving the rest as they are is not so bad idea. I can't speak for the rest of players, but the only clay blocks I place outside of pit kiln are the vessels, with few exceptions before I can make a chest. I don't know what the dev team is thnking about it, but for me putting a vessel in a chest seems cheesy and out of place. And right now a storage area filled with chests and vessels looks weird to say the least. Or Dunk could just release it as an add-on, that would be pretty nice too :)

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Can you please make a broken version of this that can be found - empty - in generated structures? It could be the same block with a metadata value that makes it render differently. It would just be a really nice aesthetic addition.

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Can you please make a broken version of this that can be found - empty - in generated structures? It could be the same block with a metadata value that makes it render differently. It would just be a really nice aesthetic addition.

 

what generated structures? O_o

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Can you please make a broken version of this that can be found - empty - in generated structures? It could be the same block with a metadata value that makes it render differently. It would just be a really nice aesthetic addition.

You are making some interesting assumptions there

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Just to chime in, I love the detailed models.  They're awesome.

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You are making some interesting assumptions there

 

 

If ya ain't gonna make 'em, don't ask people for sample models :V

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That model could work for Large Vessels, couldn't it? Although, as stated by Kitty, that might have an inconsistency with the smaller vessels that has the plebs screaming for more models, so maybe not.

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  • 3d Models for Vessels Nice!
  • 3d Models for drinking vessels, okay, but they fit in chests and in my inventory most of the time.
  • 3d Models for ingot molds, uh only if you really want to they are flat items anyway and stay in my inventory for the majority of their lifespan.
  • 3d Models for tool molds, see above.

Nice new deer.

Bear model does need work maybe stick the new head on the old one? Instead of that adorable teddy bear face staring at me, the guilt is tearing me apart.

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