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Bioxx

Torch Discussion

184 posts in this topic

Jack o' lanterns are hideous. Lanterns look freaking sweet. Sorry but I'm a builder and I can't ignore aesthetics.

 

I can't stop thinking how great it would be to come home at dusk, the lights gently flickering in cages along my garden path, eating diner, refueling and dialing down lanterns before going to bed, snuffing out a tallow candle on my bedside table... The feels...

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Jack o' lanterns are hideous. Lanterns look freaking sweet. Sorry but I'm a builder and I can't ignore aesthetics.

 

I can't stop thinking how great it would be to come home at dusk, the lights gently flickering in cages along my garden path, eating diner, refueling and dialing down lanterns before going to bed, snuffing out a tallow candle on my bedside table... The feels...

 

You aren't forced to use the default, ugly texture for jack o' lanterns. You can always re-texture them to be something more appealing, like look like a lit redstone lamp or something.

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Isn't it true that pumpkins not being able to be planted is more of a accident than a designed feature that will probably be fixed some unknown time in the future?

 

If so shouldn't that be taken into acount that pumpkins will be farmable? Of course one could argue the farming would require pumpkin seeds to justify the inifinite light source

 

Another issue that hasn't been mentioned. The chisel. Am I right that chiseled slabs/stairs work the same way as in vanilla for preventing mob spawns on that block? Of course one could argue that chiseling your floor uses up chisel durability (and therefore metal) to justify the mob spawn prevention

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Isn't it true that pumpkins not being able to be planted is more of a accident than a designed feature that will probably be fixed some unknown time in the future?

 

If so shouldn't that be taken into acount that pumpkins will be farmable? Of course one could argue the farming would require pumpkin seeds to justify the inifinite light source

 

Another issue that hasn't been mentioned. The chisel. Am I right that chiseled slabs/stairs work the same way as in vanilla for preventing mob spawns on that block? Of course one could argue that chiseling your floor uses up chisel durability (and therefore metal) to justify the mob spawn prevention

 

It is indeed planned for pumpkins to be farmable someday. When that time comes, it is also likely that jack-o-lanterns will get an overhaul and possible burn out like torches do.

 

You are correct that using the chisel to remove the flat surfaced at the very top of the block height will indeed prevent mobs from spawning. However, I think you're kind of missing the point. Torches burning out wasn't implemented just to make mobs spawn more often. Torches burning out was implemented to help stop the common Minecraft mindset of doing torch forests and just spamming torches everywhere.

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It is indeed planned for pumpkins to be farmable someday. When that time comes, it is also likely that jack-o-lanterns will get an overhaul and possible burn out like torches do.

 

You are correct that using the chisel to remove the flat surfaced at the very top of the block height will indeed prevent mobs from spawning. However, I think you're kind of missing the point. Torches burning out wasn't implemented just to make mobs spawn more often. Torches burning out was implemented to help stop the common Minecraft mindset of doing torch forests and just spamming torches everywhere.

 

well this will definitely be something that changes that. I'm also just going to call this right now, there will be many more 3x3 staircases and light shafts built now to be able to light up the underground. 

 

I wonder will we be able to create different types of torches? perhaps the ones that are we use right now ,just sticks on fire, last only so long but if you wrap a piece of coal onto the stick and

set it alight it will burn for a just a bit longer?  perhaps two or three more days at most. more uses for cloth and coal are always nice.

 

 

edit: also yay 100th post  I'm not just lurking in the depths of the forums and necroing dead topics from time to time :D

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Torches once placed now each have an internal timer that tracks when they were placed. After 48 hours (this is configurable, set to 0 to turn off) the torch will burn out and enter an unlit stage.
This worries me a little bit regarding my play style. 
I try to avoid combat whenever possible, and generally only carry a sword. 
Looks like I'll be instigated to forge copper and bronze armor, rather than skip everything and start in iron armor.
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This worries me a little bit regarding my play style. 

I try to avoid combat whenever possible, and generally only carry a sword. 
Looks like I'll be instigated to forge copper and bronze armor, rather than skip everything and start in iron armor.

 

Once again, this change doesn't really affect mob spawning as drastically as all of you are assuming. Spawn protection plays a great deal in whether or not mobs will spawn, you just haven't noticed it because you unnecessarily spammed torches everywhere and assumed they were stopping the mobs.

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With the torch in the hand not going out, I feel the dynamic lights mod is almost a necessity. Not a bad thing either. 

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I apologize if I come off as harsh. The fact of the matter is that spawn protection has been a massive part of TFC since it was added back in Beta v2 Build 52 so its frustrating when people still don't understand how it works even though there has been an explanation of it sitting in the changelog since then.

 

Well, yes i know it has been part of TFC a long time (though not everybody was there from the beginning). My confusion came from the new way the protection meters work, and i understand them now. Just to clarify, earlier on the protection meter placed in a chunk would show a gradient of coloured bars (from red to yellow to green) showing semi-quantitatively how much protection is left in the chunk. Now the meter just shows whether there is protection or no protection (like an on/off switch). I daresay, i wish the old implementation was brought back, or the look of the protection meter needs to be changed. 

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Well, yes i know it has been part of TFC a long time (though not everybody was there from the beginning). My confusion came from the new way the protection meters work, and i understand them now. Just to clarify, earlier on the protection meter placed in a chunk would show a gradient of coloured bars (from red to yellow to green) showing semi-quantitatively how much protection is left in the chunk. Now the meter just shows whether there is protection or no protection (like an on/off switch). I daresay, i wish the old implementation was brought back, or the look of the protection meter needs to be changed. 

 

No. The gradient was never removed. The spawn protection was bugged and was adding like 8 months instead of 8 hours, so the meter skipped from empty to completely full.

 

Edit: I say "was bugged" because spawn protection has been fixed for 79, so the timer is therefore within the values that the meter uses to represent each part of the gradient. The meter itself has never changed; it has always been each bar represents 48 hours. The problem is that the player would stay in a chunk for an hour, and the protection would jump from 0 (no bars) to like 8 months (full bars). You would never see the bars tick down on the meter because that requires being close enough to see it, which is also close enough to add more spawn protection to the chunk it is located in. There was however still the rare occasion where if you managed to unload the chunk for exactly long enough, you could come back to see the meter at like half full, but most of the time that wasn't the case, and it just looked like it was always either off or on.

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My concern would be aesthetics not mobs tbh.

 

An important part to any build is the lighting and I feel having to run around every few days relighting everything adds tedium not realism. I have no issue with torches burning out but I think I'll be disabling it in the config until a viable longer term lighting option is available. Lava and jack o'lanterns are clunky, lava is also very late game and carries the additional burden of starting fires. 

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My concern would be aesthetics not mobs tbh.

 

An important part to any build is the lighting and I feel having to run around every few days relighting everything adds tedium not realism. I have no issue with torches burning out but I think I'll be disabling it in the config until a viable longer term lighting option is available. Lava and jack o'lanterns are clunky, lava is also very late game and carries the additional burden of starting fires. 

Agreed

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Maybe it is just me and the way I build, but I personally have always hated the way pretty much every light source block has looked since forever and as such I have become particularly proficient in hiding my light sources from view. Now I haven't had a whole lot of opportunity to test out how the detail blocks work as far as transparency goes, but I'm hoping that with those being a thing that it should be even easier to hide all those grotty looking blocks that give us light. (and yes I am aware that texture packs exist, I am just unable to actually run any with my current computer, hell I can barely keep TFC running for more than a few minutes at a time)

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There is one thing that almost everyone is overlooking....

 

Lava. The infinite source of light, only reserved for those brave enough to venture into the blue steel territory and place it amongst their beautiful wooden homes.

 

I welcome the addition of burnable torches even thought it will probably give me great grief. At least lava has a good use now. 

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I've been playing for a bit with that other mod, 2 hour torch burnout time.

I've found I've automatically been using barely any torches.  Around my primitive house for quite some way at night there are no mobs in sight, I've yet to be attacked at home.

 

It would still be nice to have some kind of beacon light on my home to see from afar, or dim light at home for cosyness without putting fresh torches up.

What about an infinite lamp of some kind that only puts out light level 6?  So it doesn't stop mobs spawning but you can use it for more permanent aesthetics.

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It would still be nice to have some kind of beacon light on my home to see from afar, or dim light at home for cosyness without putting fresh torches up.

What about an infinite lamp of some kind that only puts out light level 6?  So it doesn't stop mobs spawning but you can use it for aesthetics.

 

Jack-o-lantern, Moody lighting setting, and a texture pack.

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Kitty, I'm well aware that there are workarounds to this issue. There will always be a more primitive, ugly and inconvenient way to play the game. However, there is a reason why people build castles and cottages in minecraft, why they plant flowers in their gardens and why they make pens and barns to keep their animals. Using the method of thinking that you apply when dismissing lanterns and candles one might argue that the game should be played in dirt huts with stone tools with texture packs applied to make it look better. The fact is that in an open world sandbox options are a good thing. Keeping doors open for people who want to explore further and build higher is the life blood of this game. Simply bashing an idea because the game is still playable with cumbersome workarounds seems very contradictory to the nature of minecraft.

Hell, we might as well remove everything past the bronze age since you don't need it to live and some people don't use it.

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I'm sorry, but at what point exactly did I bash lanterns or candles? Please, copy the exact quote for me. Bioxx stated at the start of this post that lanterns will not be included in this build. All my posts are doing is suggesting extremely legitimate alternatives until the lanterns are actually added.

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My point the whole time has been that there should NOT be a period of time where players need to use crude temporary solutions. Add the torch burnout, but only if more permanent lanterns are added along with it. If that means delaying the torch burnout to the next build I think that would be better than months of pumpkin-mania. They need to be added together, then we avoid the wait-around-for-months-until-the-next-build-is-out-alternatives.

 

Nowhere did you say "No, shaddup, lanterns r stuuped >8( "

But when you reply to a fairly comprehensive suggestion with nothing to address what was said and simply repeat "use pumpkins with texturepacks" it certainly comes across as a dismissal.

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My point the whole time has been that there should NOT be a period of time where players need to use crude temporary solutions. Add the torch burnout, but only if more permanent lanterns are added along with it. If that means delaying the torch burnout to the next build I think that would be better than months of pumpkin-mania. They need to be added together, then we avoid the wait-around-for-months-until-the-next-build-is-out-alternatives.

 

Nowhere did you say "No, shaddup, lanterns r stuuped >8( "

But when you reply to a fairly comprehensive suggestion with nothing to address what was said and simply repeat "use pumpkins with texturepacks" it certainly comes across as a dismissal.

 

Bioxx's style in developing TFC has always been "wait-around-for-months-until-the-next-build-is-out-alternatives." I'll agree that its not ideal, but it's the way it has always been done with TFC, and you're going to have a helluva time getting him to change it.

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I thought Jack-O-Lanterns were light level 15?

Changing them to light level 6 would be the key so spawning is still allowed but we get some light.

 

I look forward to it how ever it's done though, people can always turn it off in their config.

I don't think it's as big a deal as people think having played like it with the other mod.

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I don't think this will add any fun to the mod. It needs more interesting mechanics like the smithing, not tedium like cutting out rot from cabbage and relighting torches.

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You can craft redstone torches to get a dim light emitter. If I remember correctly, that hasn't been disabled here.

 

Other than that and to try to resolve some issues with current protection implementation - can we get slight protection value leak into the chunks outside of the 5x5, to make in not drop off instantly, but rather have stair-like decrease? I feel like that's more believable behaviour to what it's trying to achieve.

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Trust me the 5x5 is plenty.

In testing playing with no lights I'm not seeing mobs spawn anywhere remotely near me.

There already is value leak since you don't spend all your time in 1 chunk, you move about.

 

I'd even suggest reducing it to 4x4 maybe lol :P

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You can craft redstone torches to get a dim light emitter. If I remember correctly, that hasn't been disabled here.

 

Other than that and to try to resolve some issues with current protection implementation - can we get slight protection value leak into the chunks outside of the 5x5, to make in not drop off instantly, but rather have stair-like decrease? I feel like that's more believable behaviour to what it's trying to achieve.

 

The stair-like decrease already happens because players are walking around. It's not like they only stay inside of one chunk all the time so the same 5x5 area keeps increasing and everything else is 0. As the player walks around from chunk to chunk the edges of the entire area slowly get increases, while the more centralized chunks are part of the 5x5 more often, and therefore get more protection.

 

Edit: If you look at my earlier picture you can see exactly this happening. Because the player moved over a chunk, the edges of the entire area that has protection has slightly smaller values than just the center.

 

Edit 2: Something to keep in mind is that spawn protection is something that you leave behind. It isn't something that picks up everything and follows you around. A good example to compare it to would be a trail. As you walk around in an area, the ground becomes more and more worn down and creates a trail. The edges of the trail and areas you don't visit as often aren't as worn down, and can become grown-over fairly quickly. The parts of the trail that you are constantly walking over are greatly worn down, and would take a very very long time for nature to reclaim it. In this analogy, the heavily worn down trail is like an area with a lot of spawn protection, while the trail that isn't as worn down is like the areas with only a little bit of spawn protection.

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