Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
RobearM3

Mod or addition to TFC

21 posts in this topic

It would be nice if someone could make something like the stone wood splitting mod like jackd23 made, but updated for the latest builds. I'd make it, but I have no clue how to do that. 
This is the original http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/4439-1627715-stone-splitting-wedge-mod-axe-plank-crafting-replacement/
But it's outdated, or at least, I can't get it to work for the 78.17. 
The original stone knapping pattern was a bit odd, and I saw someone post this picture, this could be a better pattern if anyone will take on this task. post-13725-0-76132100-1410624695_thumb.p

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The primary reason that nobody has updated the mod or released a newer version is because it drastically breaks the progression in TFC. TFC is not aiming to be as realistic as possible, and many times things are compromised for the sake of balanced gameplay.

 

Being able to unlock the 3x3 crafting grid and make all of the wooden things including doors, chests, beds, etc is something extremely OP for a player still in the stone age. Instead of trying to justify the "extra work" that the addon gives to try and balance it (keyword: try), just put in the little bit of effort that it takes to make a copper saw. You can either get lucky and find pieces laying around on the ground, or just do a little bit of gold panning to get the 10 nuggets.

 

http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Gold_Pan

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though, I would like to be able to make a type of 'rough lumber' of sorts that could be made as a wood-type stone age building block. I'm tired of living a cave blocked of with dried-out grass

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though, I would like to be able to make a type of 'rough lumber' of sorts that could be made as a wood-type stone age building block. I'm tired of living a cave blocked of with dried-out grass

 

Then progress out of the stone age? People who didn't have metal tools generally lived in things made out of dirt, mud, and grass. 'Rough lumber' was really never a thing for building during the stone age.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technically speaking, we already have a "rough lumber". It's called Logs :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate the idea of an addon that creates a stone wedge with the only purpose of bypassing the stone age. 

I would love to have the stone wedge added to the game and have the whole stone age redesigned.

Like in my post http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/6419-to-make-each-age-in-tfc-longer/

The stone age was a lot richer than most people think. Ingenuous people were able to make a lot.

Using only stone tools prehistoric man were able to wedge logs for planks and make houses with it, they made canoes and actual boats, they made doors and chests 

Using hot vapor they were able to bend wood to make several kinds of utensils.

Here are some pictures and references:

Posted Image

That structure was  a water well  around 5200 BC using only stones no metal.

So yeah stone knifes can do a lot more than people think.

This is a webpage describing a wood house in stone age circa 3200 BC

http://www.pcl-eu.de/virt_ex/detail.php?entry=01

some diagrams:

Posted ImagePosted Image

I first got interested in stone age by reading the books by Jean M Auel, The Clan Of The Cave Bear.

They are fantasy but they are backed by research and the descriptions of stone age achievements are very detailed. 

Archaeologists find submerged Stone Age settlement and 6,500 year-old boat in Denmark - See more Here 

One of the Technics used in stone age was to dugout a boat from a large tree log and then sew planks to the sides of the dugout making the boat higher and capable of caring more cargo.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I would love to have the ages get expanded out with more meaningful goals between each age, you have to remember: "TFC is actually not trying to achieve realism. The goal is believability, while keeping in mind that not only is this a game, but also a mod for Minecraft."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kazerima if you haven't figured it out yet, the real goal of TFC is like all devs goals to implement what the devs what to implement

 

They want realism when they like the idea of it being realistic (like other devs)

 

They implement unbelievable and outright ridiculous ideas whenever they want to (like other devs)

 

They implement changes for game balance (like other devs)

 

The only real difference is very few devs want to change Minecraft gameplay as drastically as the TFC devs do

 

For any suggestion you don't know if the devs will like it if noone suggests it. They also change thier mind about what is a good idea frequently. For example the original post in this thread is about re-adding a feature that used to be part of TFC, but is now considered overpowered and cheaty if re-enabled.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kazerima if you haven't figured it out yet, the real goal of TFC is like all devs goals to implement what the devs what to implement

 

They want realism when they like the idea of it being realistic (like other devs)

 

They implement unbelievable and outright ridiculous ideas whenever they want to (like other devs)

 

They implement changes for game balance (like other devs)

 

The only real difference is very few devs want to change Minecraft gameplay as drastically as the TFC devs do

 

For any suggestion you don't know if the devs will like it if noone suggests it. They also change thier mind about what is a good idea frequently. For example the original post in this thread is about re-adding a feature that used to be part of TFC, but is now considered overpowered and cheaty if re-enabled.

In the end you are absolutely right.

Of Course if any of us were to develop a mod we would do the way we like and since the devs are not getting paid to do it, we cannot say that they are wrong in implementing witch ever features they like.

But for the love of god don't tell me you are not trying to achieve realism and at the same time you try to code TASTE into the mod.

Many times I fell like We are being censor for the use of the world Realism.

I would say that 90% of the people that came to this mod were looking for more realism.

Again, I am extremely grateful to the Devs for the creation of this mod.

They have every right to just say "I will not include this in the mod because I don't like the idea".

I would only ask to stop the censorship of the word "Realism" on the Forum.

Believable is just another word and a question of semantics. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Realism" is never an end in of itself though. Nobody actually wants more realism. More realism means having to go poo in the woods every few hours, making something to wipe it, and getting poison ivy from it. Realism is a dirty word in gaming because people use it as a smokescreen to disguise their true aims, even to themselves. Reality is tedium, and games are made to get away from it all, to bring what's fun about reality or fantasy into a virtual environment to toy around with.

 

The most common things people mean when they say "Realism" is:

1. Make this part of the game easier because this real world solution is an easier way around this or things aren't exactly perfectly like that in reality. (see Stone Wedge Addon, slower food decay requests, and so on)

2. Want to add more to a part of a game and feel like they're partially responsible for the game, so they reach for the low hanging fruit of obvious ideas. "Make walls out of paper so I can attach my name to this and feel important. Then I can totally tell all my friends it's because of me that TFC now has paper walls"

3. They actually mean to suggest something beneficial to the actual game to improve the feel of it, but they lack the proper terminology for the kinds of things they want to add to the game. Much like "Better Graphics", what's actually desired is a better representation of the kind of environment the game provides.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I say I want realism it's because I see TFC as a tool for learning. History, biology and geology etc are all prevalent in this mod, so it's only right to try make it accurate. 

 

At any rate, a realistic approach will only work in tandem with an enjoyable mechanic. Not to mention the "realism" itself can be abstractly represented, like the smithing for example.

 

In the case of a wedge, it would make sense to build houses out of split wood. Generally speaking gathering the materials for straw and wedged wood would be equally time consuming, and you would still need a saw to unlock the crafting grid. In this case I see nothing overpowered, especially if the wedge has a low durability.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extra Cedits just did an episode on this a few days ago actually. Accuracy is more in the mechanics than necessarily the details of the thing. Building ough looking houses out of logs chopped down with your stone axe? that's plenty of representation for what you wanted to accomplish. A 'wedge' can be an abstraction of the process of laying the logs down on top of each other and not having the whole structure instantly fall apart in-game, The issue with a mechanical wedge is, it serves no purpose other than to destabilize the balance of the game.

 

The only purpose of planks blocks is to increase your available construction material per log harvested through reducing durablity of a metal tiered item. What would a wedge do? It would either allow the construction of a purely aesthetic alternate plank block that could not be used to make a workbench, but could be used to make other stuff of the same tier maybe.

The cost of a stone wedge? next to absolutely nothing, since rocks are incredibly easy to find and obtain, even before making a pickaxe. The only thing in the stone age that actually requires any real effort to get through in the current 78 build is actually getting enough metal for the saw to advance to the next tech gradient. Even then, that's not difficult so much as tediously keeping track of which chunks you've panned in and which you haven't as you grind for 10 copper.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we were going for the history aspect of things I would much rather see adobe or mud brick building blocks long before I see the wedge idea.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I say I want realism it's because I see TFC as a tool for learning. History, biology and geology etc are all prevalent in this mod, so it's only right to try make it accurate. 

 

At any rate, a realistic approach will only work in tandem with an enjoyable mechanic. Not to mention the "realism" itself can be abstractly represented, like the smithing for example.

 

In the case of a wedge, it would make sense to build houses out of split wood. Generally speaking gathering the materials for straw and wedged wood would be equally time consuming, and you would still need a saw to unlock the crafting grid. In this case I see nothing overpowered, especially if the wedge has a low durability.

Yes, that's why I would only support the addition of stone wedge if it was together with other changes in the mod to make stone age longer and not to just unlock the crafting grid.

The way I see TFC should try to fallow the historic progression, So no metal until all the prehistoric phases are done.

Off course no one wants a game to be true realistic.We want fantasy so we can forget reality.

But overcoming obstacles in a game makes us fell good about ourselves.

Is just that the arguments are used in so many different contexts that it feels like is just a censorship of the wording.

What is really the difference in saying something is believable or saying is realistic?

It gives me the impression that most people use the word believable just because they are tired of being hammered in the head every time  they use the word realistic.

Does anyone want the game to be truly realistic? I don't think so.

I believe most people like TFC because is more realistic than Vanilla minecraft. That's what atracts most people to this Mod.

So I think the mod should be as realistic as possible without losing the fun. We need balance, and I agree there is no need to add poo.

Once again I pay no money to play this mod so in the end it has to be about what the developers think it should be.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

Somehow it double posted. I have no option to delete it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with the term "realism" is it's not the term people should be using, because it's not really what they're asking for. It's not even 'increased believability' either. It's a desire for a very specific type of content to usually be catered for and presented as "because it's more realistic". People should really say what they mean deep down when suggesting things to the devs. "I don't like having to wait until metal to start on making things out of wood" is the reason the wedge mechanic was created for that addon.

 

The reason most people choose TFC over vanilla I believe is not truly "Realism", but rather because it provides something new to a game that's gone stale feeling, and provides a good deal of additional content to play with. It presents intriguing systems that allow for a more balanced mode of play that requires more time to reach endgame than vanilla. The design philosophy behind TFC is, as constantly quoted from kitty's signature, to enhance the balance of the game and provide a slight increase in difficulty over vanilla MC, not to make it more realistic. Because vanilla offers no difficulty in survival at all in its gameplay other than maybe accidentally getting creepered from above or skeletons that do more damage the closer to them you get.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before .77, you could use a axe to break a log into 3 TFC planks. In .77, this option was removed. The add-on was created because the author did not like the change. The justification for the add-on was not that it was more realistic, but that they did not like the change

 

The change in fact made one part of the game ridiculous. Boat construction. As we all know vanilla boats are extremely fragile and break a lot

 

And they were changed so you need to create a metal saw before you can make one. This is a mod where the oceans are huge and you have to travel vast distances to find things. And in future builds, you won't be able to swim for long periods of time in cold water due to body temperature mechanics. You broke your boat and you forgot your saw? Well better go back to base instead of making a new boat like you would in earlier builds

 

This is why the add-on was created. This is why the canoe thread is so popular. And why the mentioned canoe apparently will be made with a axe rather than a saw. The ability to be able to make a boat without a saw is definitely a good thing.

 

What the add-on author should have done is made a alternate 2x2 recipe for a boat instead of re-enabling the old recipe for planks. But he wasn't creative enough to think outside the box, and could only re-create previous gameplay. Gameplay that was now considered cheating

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's why in my suggestions I proposed the addition of the stone wedge. but also requiring nails ( metals) for placing non gravity wood blocks and mortar and trowel (metal ) for placing non gravity stone blocks.

So we would have balance and added content to the mod.

What bothers me is how fast you can get to metal age. I wanted to have a longer stone age. 

If I was able to code I would create a addon. No warranty that people would like it or use it.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, apologies palisight for the misinterpretation. Admittedly, in a game like TFC having a rather poor starting location can be a very difficult thing to deal with since you're required to keep returning there upon every death. The best option at present really is to just gen another world, but I can understand the sentiment of wanting to have some means of making a tiny island spawn lost in the ocean a more playable situation.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen a lot of people hating on the stone wedge idea in a couple of threads on here. I agree that the way it was done in the addon "deliberately undoes an intended game mechanic", and kind of ruins the game. To state the obvious, the issue is that early access to planks opens up the 3x3 grid and gives Steve lots of advanced wood things (doors, boats, barrels, buckets, chests, etc...) WAY too early. Personally I wouldn't want any of those things earlier than intended because I think the game currently has a good balance in that area.  However, if it was done slightly differently it wouldn't necessarily undo that mechanic. 

 

Having a primitive means of building with wood (other than whole logs) would be nice. That may not have been what Jackd23 was going for, but it sounds like some players would like that. A compromise would be to make a stone wedge that doesn't produce a standard TFC plank, but instead some new type of rough plank (maybe use the log texture or something to differentiate). It could still work like a plank for construction, but it couldn't be crafted into a plank block allowing you to open the 3x3 grid. That would give Steve a way to build primitive structures with gravity blocks, but not let him make advanced recipes.

 

Just a thought. I'm pretty indifferent to the stone wedge.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One idea would be to have any advanced wood thing to require metal in its recipe, like nails. This would free the 3 x 3 grid for use in the stone age and still be possible to control which items would be available before copper age.

If you don't want to change the recipes you could just require hammer and nails on the inventory to place advanced wood items. 

Another idea would be to need to make metal hinges on a anvil to be able to place a door, or make a chest. Maybe barrels would need metal rings and etc...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites