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IStoleThePies

Realistic Mining and Metal Extraction

14 posts in this topic

I think the mod should make extracting metals a bit more realistic. What I mean is that nearly every type of stone in a world would be considered an ore, but getting the metals from that ore would be more difficult. Here are the steps:

 

Step 1, breaking the rocks:

In real life, you can get minerals from a rock by crushing it in in a grinder, thus breaking it into smaller pieces.

In the mod, the grinder would turn a stone block into multiple "Crushed (name of stone)". For example, putting granite in a grinder would earn you 3 Crushed Granite. Each of these crushed granite would contain a different mineral (depending on which type of stone you used). The name of the mineral shows up below the item's name, like how enchantments do. Minerals can even be quartz or, rarely, gems like diamond. Now we have to separate the minerals from the rocks.

 

Step 2, separating the minerals:

The separation process in real life requires leaching, emission, gravity methods and magnetic separation.

This process would be really complicated if it were based off real life. As a result, we can just smelt all the crushed rocks and get their respective minerals. Certain minerals are composed of useful metals, like iron, silver, etc.

 

Step 3, extracting the metals:

Minerals only contain a very small amount of liquid metals, so you'll need to do a decent amount of mining before you get an ingot. You can extract metals from certain minerals by heating them up at high temperatures. Once you get enough of that metal, you can continue using it as you normally would with this mod (like welding it, etc.).

 

So what do you all think?

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The goal of this mod isn't realism, it's versimilitude & good gameplay.

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If you want it, you will need to make a add-on

 

1.) A grinder is too mechanical for the devs to want to implement it

 

2.) Modern separation techniques aren't going to make into the mod. You will still be using bloomeries late game in vanilla TFC

 

3.) I'll take it you haven't got far enough in the mod because I don't think you know how the existing metals system works

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Why don't we just build fission reactors then? Iron is the most common final product of those, you know.

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Given that Ore veins are extremely large and spread far apart, I can see a benefit to creating a less-efficient-but-more-intensive method for gathering ore. This was similar to something on my massive idea list, however the mechanic that would make this be viable was kinda tossed.Instead of your idea of this, how about a change?

Ore VeinsOre veins would have 2 different layers:The Vein: This is the ore veins we're used to. Loosely scattered, but very condensed ore Yields the standard 15-35 units of ore

The boundary layer: This would be surrounding the vein, and somewhere around half or a quarter of the amount.What it doesThis would create a transition into the vein, and offer a method and an option to continue mining a "dried out" ore vein to get a reduced but still considerable amount of metal.

It also makes a more gradual vein, that looks more convincing, instead of "this cubic meter has ore, this doesn't" 

But, even though this method would return a bit more ore, it would be a huge investment in time and effort. So, just throwing it out there as an option, however the parent suggestion, to improve TFC rails, was discarded. Rail carts would help with moving the load of ores, as in a normal mine, you'd usually get 10-20 stacks of ore, and this new addition would add probably 30-40 stacks of lower-quality ore. So alot of space is needed =PJust my 2 cents. TFC has a much more unique mining system than any other mod, so it's a major highlight of gameplay

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You know... you can always create a sluice if you want an inefficient way of gathering ore.

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Wow, some pretty harsh reactions to this suggestion. I'll try to be a bit kinder.

 

I can say to begin with that this isn't going to happen, sorry :/

 

The focus of the mod isn't to follow reality to the letter, only as far as we think it's fun and interesting, which can mean generalizing or glazing over certain aspects of processes we are representing.

 

 

I appreciate the suggestion, but I feel it strays too far from the direction we'd like the mod to grow in.

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Why don't we just build fission reactors then? Iron is the most common final product of those, you know.

I think you mean fusion.

 

Fission products tend to be asymmetrical fractions of the fissioning nucleus, most frequently with a mass number of ~95 or ~135. See here.

The fusion reactions that occur in our sun combine lighter elements into heavier elements. This is called Stellar Nucleosynthesis. This process reaches a quasi-equilibrium point when nuclei are about as heavy as Iron, which is what I think you're referring to. However, this is not necessarily the most common product. Carbon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen are also created by nucleosynthesis, and are more abundant in our universe than Iron. Also, Iron is not the upper limit of what can be produced by fusion, if that fusion occurs at energies much higher than in stellar nucleosynthesis where the S-process is more dominant, or in explosive situations like supernovae.

 

disclaimer: I'm not a physicist, I'm just interested in nuclear science.

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But Dunk, have you considered adding a boundary layer to ore deposits? Something that transitions into the main vein, that only has a small amount of ore in the rock. It'd add the option to "Clean out" a depleted ore vein, at the expense of alot of effort. Of course, carrying all of this low-quality ore provides another unique issue: running out of inventory space

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I don't think that's really a viable sort of thing because it would make veins a lot easier to find. Think about it. The bigger that veins are, then the easier it is for them to be picked up on a propick, since it doesnt really test for rich/normal/poor. They would have to be bigger because the net amount of metal you could get from the vein would have to be about same as previous versions for balance/gameplay reasons. Even if the central 'rich' part was smaller, the outer area can still be picked up with a propick. As it is now, if you aren't paying attention, the veins are about the right size. If you changed it, you'd have to change the propick calibration, and people would have to relearn how to use it with the new radii.

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I think you mean fusion.

 

Fission products tend to be asymmetrical fractions of the fissioning nucleus, most frequently with a mass number of ~95 or ~135. See here.

The fusion reactions that occur in our sun combine lighter elements into heavier elements. This is called Stellar Nucleosynthesis. This process reaches a quasi-equilibrium point when nuclei are about as heavy as Iron, which is what I think you're referring to. However, this is not necessarily the most common product. Carbon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen are also created by nucleosynthesis, and are more abundant in our universe than Iron. Also, Iron is not the upper limit of what can be produced by fusion, if that fusion occurs at energies much higher than in stellar nucleosynthesis where the S-process is more dominant, or in explosive situations like supernovae.

 

disclaimer: I'm not a physicist, I'm just interested in nuclear science.

I did, in fact, meant fusion. Though I seem to recall reading somewhere that forced nuclear fission in general (not specifically the one we as a race are using, that would be too narrow of reference to it as a process) also has iron as one of its more common results.

 

Or rather this:

Nuclear fussion stops yielding energy when producing elements heavier than iron. Nuclear fission stops yielding energy when producing elements lighter than iron.

But since I can't remember where I read it, I won't really hold onto my words here.

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I think you mean fusion.

 

Fission products tend to be asymmetrical fractions of the fissioning nucleus, most frequently with a mass number of ~95 or ~135. See here.

The fusion reactions that occur in our sun combine lighter elements into heavier elements. This is called Stellar Nucleosynthesis. This process reaches a quasi-equilibrium point when nuclei are about as heavy as Iron, which is what I think you're referring to. However, this is not necessarily the most common product. Carbon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen are also created by nucleosynthesis, and are more abundant in our universe than Iron. Also, Iron is not the upper limit of what can be produced by fusion, if that fusion occurs at energies much higher than in stellar nucleosynthesis where the S-process is more dominant, or in explosive situations like supernovae.

 

disclaimer: I'm not a physicist, I'm just interested in nuclear science.

 

I did, in fact, meant fusion. Though I seem to recall reading somewhere that forced nuclear fission in general (not specifically the one we as a race are using, that would be too narrow of reference to it as a process) also has iron as one of its more common results.

 

Or rather this:

Nuclear fussion stops yielding energy when producing elements heavier than iron. Nuclear fission stops yielding energy when producing elements lighter than iron.

But since I can't remember where I read it, I won't really hold onto my words here.

 

 

Iron and nickel are the two most stable elements on the periodic table, from a nuclear standpoint. They are too heavy to easily fuse, but too light to easily split apart; so while it can be done, the nucleus of an iron atom is simply not conducive to the complicated chains necessary to sustain nuclear reactions in either direction. It's why iron is one of the more common elements in the universe; lighter elements are made in stars, but those stars tend to keep fusing them into heavier things over their lifespan - and heavier elements are only created when a star with an iron core goes supernova

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I don't think that's really a viable sort of thing because it would make veins a lot easier to find. Think about it. The bigger that veins are, then the easier it is for them to be picked up on a propick, since it doesnt really test for rich/normal/poor. They would have to be bigger because the net amount of metal you could get from the vein would have to be about same as previous versions for balance/gameplay reasons. Even if the central 'rich' part was smaller, the outer area can still be picked up with a propick. As it is now, if you aren't paying attention, the veins are about the right size. If you changed it, you'd have to change the propick calibration, and people would have to relearn how to use it with the new radii.

You wouldn't have to change anything at all. What I'm proposing is something like an extra 50% of ore that is of lesser quality than the main vein.This offers somewhat of an incentive to "clean out" an entire mine, instead of just emptying it in one go. It also would take a helluva long time to do, considering an average ore vein is several stacks of ore, so the boundary ore would be much larger, in inventory space. 

Basically- Once you find ore, it's all up to how patient you are to get all of the ore out.

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More work for a single player...

Some work for multiplayer, a lot of miners slaved....

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