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Regnilse

Surgar cane growth in the cold

37 posts in this topic

I feel that either the temprature restrictions or the growth time for sugar cane is to harsh. I live at -11.5k z with an ave temp of 10 and with a full growing season the sugar cane is only half grown and dieing when I'm harvesting the rest of my crops, I've checked their nutrients and they are still half full. I dont feel that living at 11.5k north is too far north and too cold for most players as its only around 2 months of freezing tempratures.

The problem I see is that the sugar cane are able to die at ~6 degrees(even if this is accurate) and appear to grow at half the speed of other crops. I'd like to know if anyone else has had similar problems.

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Plants are based roughly on real life plants. Sugarcane grows in tropical and very warm temperate climates. If you get snow even once in an average winter IRL you are probably too far north for sugarcane to be happy. that said, this is a game, so looser restrictions can be fine if they improve gameplay, but ultimately you dont need sugar, so i dont know.

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Exactly, I do feel that sugar cane behaviour is accurate to the real stuff but I also feel that a significant number of people like having a winter in their game and saying that you cant have sugar cane is a bit much. If it were to grow as fast as other crops i think it would be fine. Some may die but you could also harvest some. Another reason I bring this up is I got my original sugar cane at the same z as my house.

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TFC is balanced for multiplayer. Making sugar cane a more tropical crop means encouraging players to spread out across the entire map, and trade goods between the different towns.

 

For reference, the minimum temperature for sugar cane to stay alive is 12. As soon as it gets colder than that, each day the chance increases that the crop will die. The minimum growth temp is 18. It should also be noted that while sugar cane is the slowest growing of all the crops, it also has the lowest nutrient usage.

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ouch, well yep that would explain the half grown sugar cane, for referance the surgar cane i got did spawn naturaly in my cold climate, so that can be a bit confusing if its not supose to be able to grow at that latitude. although that might not be worth taking the time to change if the sugar cane will die in 6 months.

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Maybe it's time to add the temperature mechanics of a greenhouse? as far as I know it's perfectly possible to grow warmer climate plants in colder climates in a controlled area made from pretty primative construction, probably takes extra nutrients for the plant to survive the limited circumstance, but it seems a fair trade off for keeping a harvest.As I recall not all crops like greenhouses, so maybe it should be specifics.

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Maybe it's time to add the temperature mechanics of a greenhouse? as far as I know it's perfectly possible to grow warmer climate plants in colder climates in a controlled area made from pretty primative construction, probably takes extra nutrients for the plant to survive the limited circumstance, but it seems a fair trade off for keeping a harvest.As I recall not all crops like greenhouses, so maybe it should be specifics.

 

From the research that I had done, greenhouses that do anything more than maybe a 5+ temp increase are a very recent invention that is far outside of the timeframe of TFC.

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Ya a greenhouse seems exessive, I mainly bring this up as northerners will have a significantly difficult time getting paper, I'm assuming the paper recipe is the same i haven't seen a change mentioned anywhere.

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Well, I understand the greenhouse idea is a bit far reaching, but for SP players I can see the temperature mechanics being a pain. I wouldn't know what to suggest to fix it, especially since I absolutely agree with the SMP mindset of purposeful trading between regions. Still, I haven't joined a server yet, and I'd really like to have me some sugarcane too.

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I vaguely recall reading about a design that was heavily based on something the uncovered that dated roughly in the mid-to-late 8th century, that they surmised could potentially raise the temperature a good bit. Granted it was only a estimation at the time because the article did state they probably improved the design unintentionally. Not entirely certain if I could find that article again.

 

The premise of the design was do the typical hole in the ground greenhouse, but they found what could have been a rudimentary piping in the walls and what could have been a fire pit of sorts to pump warm air through those pipes. Now keep in mind they didn't think it was a long term thing more likely they used it to extend the growing season maybe one last harvest for certain plants.

 

Not entirely sure what kind of framework the devs work under as far as dating TFC goes, but this might be something to look at. I'll see if I can hunt down that article, but I wouldn't hold your breath it was many years ago that I saw this.

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Kinda offtopic but roman Villa rusticas used simmilar in-floor and in-wall heating by having a oven in the basement and the "chimney" just going under the floor and up trough a wall.

 

Thinking about it lava should raise the environment temperature around it. (which it dosn't sitting in a lavapool shows nice 20°C :P)

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I do hope that as the temprature mechanic gets more fleshed out things like lava, hot springs and ice will have an effect on the appearant temprature, but using lava to heat a crop feels wrong. If it is able to do so in the future the sulfur spawning mechanic could be used to kill any nearby crops making it very unattractive as a makeshift greenhouse.

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Ya a greenhouse seems exessive, I mainly bring this up as northerners will have a significantly difficult time getting paper, I'm assuming the paper recipe is the same i haven't seen a change mentioned anywhere.

The crop  sugarcane and the wild waterside plant reed are different things now, as far as I can tell you can only get sugar from sugarcane and paper from reeds

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Oh they are. I missed that. thanks

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Hearing aritifical heating methods being brought up using fire constantly reminds me of a suggestion I took off the burner about man made hotsprings. Or really just a 3x3 stone flat bowl with a firepit under it to get the water warmed up.I don't think there's going to be much of a way to handle the heating problem. Maybe with the addition of metal sheets there can be a costly compromise for natural temperature issues. I wouldn't expect this to let someone build some giant prosperous crop, but a miniscule one for all the trouble of fighting with the elements.

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Well considering in real life deriving sugar from cane was, for most of history, a thoroughly unpleasant and horrific affair, sometimes even lethal as people would get caught in machinery (said people often being slaves).

 

So i'd say that simply having to keep the sugar cane warm and then magically grinding it into a fine powder with your hands is a pretty good deail.

 

(why am I preaching about this after the problem has been resolved, well why not). 

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Well considering in real life deriving sugar from cane was, for most of history, a thoroughly unpleasant and horrific affair, sometimes even lethal as people would get caught in machinery (said people often being slaves).

 

So i'd say that simply having to keep the sugar cane warm and then magically grinding it into a fine powder with your hands is a pretty good deail.

 

(why am I preaching about this after the problem has been resolved, well why not). 

 

We actually changed the refining mechanic as well. You no longer magically grind it with your hands. Instead you must soak the sugar cane in a barrel of fresh water, which result in an amount of sugar that is 10% the weight of the original cane. I.E. Placing 50 oz of sugar cane in a fresh water barrel and sealing it will result in 5 oz of sugar.

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The way to make sugar from sugar cane in real life is to squeeze the juice out of it and cook it. We could use a  quern to that and having it on top of a large vessel. Than the vessel on a firepit or forge to cook the juice. Once you cook it enough you have to let it cool and grind it to make the powder.

And that's how you make brown sugar. We already have all that in game it just need to be added together.

No coder myself, so not sure how much work is it to make it. I think it would be cool if it is ever done. 

 

Just found this on the change log:

"

  • [*]
Sugarcane is now a farmable crop. Raw sugarcane can be processed in a barrel to create sugar. This process will be expanded in the future once a way to boil water is created. This is a temporary solution.

"

I should have read the whole change log before posting.

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TFC is balanced for multiplayer. Making sugar cane a more tropical crop means encouraging players to spread out across the entire map, and trade goods between the different towns.For reference, the minimum temperature for sugar cane to stay alive is 12. As soon as it gets colder than that, each day the chance increases that the crop will die. The minimum growth temp is 18. It should also be noted that while sugar cane is the slowest growing of all the crops, it also has the lowest nutrient usage.

Well, Kitty, as the "Official Quote Fetcher" I feel much obliged to point out, that you are severely contradicting yourself with this statement: In THIS post regarding TFC Spawn protection you stated, "The only time that I ever really see this being an issue is if you aren't truly playing SMP as TFC intends, and are instead doing essentially single player on a server. (...) TFC is balanced towards an SMP environment in which players are working together, and therefore creating bases relatively close to each other. I never understood the reasoning behind players who join a server, and then travel off into the distance far away from everybody else."Now, I'm a little confused ... what is the one true way, that TerraFirmaCraft "intends" us to play?
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Well, Kitty, as the "Official Quote Fetcher" I feel much obliged to point out, that you are severely contradicting yourself with this statement:

In THIS post regarding TFC Spawn protection you stated, "The only time that I ever really see this being an issue is if you aren't truly playing SMP as TFC intends, and are instead doing essentially single player on a server. (...) TFC is balanced towards an SMP environment in which players are working together, and therefore creating bases relatively close to each other. I never understood the reasoning behind players who join a server, and then travel off into the distance far away from everybody else."

Now, I'm a little confused ... what is the one true way, that TerraFirmaCraft "intends" us to play?

 

Note how I stated "trade goods between the different towns". On larger servers, you're going to have multiple groups of people who are spread out all around the world in different towns. Within those groups, the players are still working together, and creating bases relatively close to each other. I never stated that every single person on the entire server should all be crammed into one little space. I simply implied that all players should be in an area that is close to some other players, and not venture completely off onto their own (i.e. single player on SMP).

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I get what you mean, but I still feel that everybody should be able to play as they want, and still enjoy their playstyle without specific features making that almost impossible.

Several people working together only should make things easier, not be a necessity. You should not have to rely on other players to keep up your spawn protection for instance, or relighting torches while you are offline ... ok, I'm aware that has already been discussed in several different threads, just wanted to add my 2 cents ...

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My 2 cents would be to add a more northerly option for sugar....beetroots maybe? :)

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Personally, my issue is mostly that I'd like to have paper but I guess that's scheduled for change anyway considering that nowadays you mostly use wood to make paper and AFAIK it's not like that's because it's a hightech thing.

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I think the ideal would be to have paper made of papyrus plant. It would be just like cat tails that we have now but it should have a whole mechanic to make it. Paper use to be so expensive that in middle age people would undress dead people to use their clothes to make paper.

Wood is really recent in making paper and sugar cane too. It is really out of the timeline for TFC.

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Personally, my issue is mostly that I'd like to have paper but I guess that's scheduled for change anyway considering that nowadays you mostly use wood to make paper and AFAIK it's not like that's because it's a hightech thing.

You would be looking for reeds then. Reeds and sugar cane are different things now and you only get paper from reeds. Now finding reeds is the next problem, i still havent and had to cheat in for a little progress.
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