Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
CreepyD

Support beams

16 posts in this topic

I can't seem to find an explanation of how they are suppose to work now.

Basically I just tried a simple thing, digging a straight 3 high, 1 wide tunnel.

I managed to get 2 beams in by 8 blocks apart digging out blocks next to that path - that seemed to work at first.

 

From above I was digging left to right..

OOOOO

B B OOOOO

===B======XB===OOOOO

B B

 

I started digging out a 5x5 (still 3 high) section at the far right end of my diagram above where the O's are.

I think I dug out the middle of the the 3 heights first once, and there was a massive cave in.. Blocks above 3 high came down too around me.

Also to my amazement, so did the block where the X is above?!  (Not even next to or touching the collapsing blocks in any way).

So where that X is 3 high cobblestone with 8 more gravel/soil on top of that, I had to dig the whole lot and refill it.

 

But the question is why did it collapse?

And why did height 4 collapse in the other room I was digging out when I had a successfully placed beam not 5 squares away at height 3?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beams provide protection 4 blocks out and 2 blocks up. A block three spaces above your beam (with only air below it) can collapse. When it does, it will break any support beam it hits on its way down. This may break other support beams, as they might no longer be connected to their vertical.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As support beams are right now I find it much easier to just smooth some blocks with the chisel and forget about the beams.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might be wrong about this, but to me it seems that now you should avoid cave-ins like the plague. Support beams stop cave-ins from happening while digging in the protected area. But it seems that digging anywhere outside the protected area can trigger a cave-in anywhere. In my mine I had all of my horizontal support beams destroyed by a cave in. 

 

Now I dig four blocks out from the support beam, place a temporary support beam, dig four more, place a permanent support beam and then I collect the temporary. This seems to eliminate the cave-ins.

 

I have yet to design a good mining strategy for digging out the heart of the veins. Start at the bottom of the vein, working your way up? Or start at the top, working your way down?

 

Also, how do you safely dig down? Just a hole in the ground with a ladder, or a staircase with a ton of beams?

 

 

--- 

 

After playing around in creative with the support beams, I found something really really odd. The "safe zone" around the support beams seems to be skewed.

The safe zone around the support beams is NOT 4 in each direction, as I thought. It's an unpredictable 4 in two directions, 3 in one direction and 5 in one direction. That surely must be a bug. I'll submit a post in the support section, if one isn't filed already.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah right interesting, that would fit what I saw.

I believe I was 6 blocks away from the beam, but as you say the cave in propagated (and jumped) randomly, even to right next to the beam about 3 blocks away from the next nearest block that caved (It was propagate only to a block next to it before right?)

 

Once you get how it works, you can work to avoid it much more effectively!

 

I guess the difficult thing is I was digging with only 2-3 stone above me before the top dirt layer, so it was difficult to dig out enough to put the first beam in place without exposing that layer of dirt.

Although admittedly I have once again upped the cave in chance to 1 in 2, masochist or what :D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be nice to see support beams adding strength with the addition of other beams, real mineshafts use one on either side of the tunnel with beam across for the added support.

Maybe since one beam only holds 4 horizontal beams, it'd make sense that if two verticals are holding the same set of horizontal beams would increase the vertical block strength. This would make the issue of using more resources but it seems the developers like the idea of having real uses for collected resources, that way they don't pile up unnecessarily.

I'll try to give an example, but with this top down example of beam placement, you have some generally uniform placement for straight line paths, and vertical beams being placed at maximum of 4 blocks away should really increase the neighboring beams to be much more sturdy.

VHHHHV

HOOOOH
HOOOOH

HOOOOH
HOOOOH
VHHHHV

  • V: Vertical
  • H: Horizontal
  • O: Empty

Just add another set of horizontal beams 4 blocks inline with the path, and repeat the process. As for angled or downward paths, those have always been a real risk to miners as I'm aware, so building ladders down to another level or taking right turns to get around may just need to be necessary.

This is just my idea on the matter though to make the best of it. It seems a lot like vanilla mineshafts, but it's not like the idea for those just appeared out of squares, know what I mean? That and this method is already known, so it is believable.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as you are standing under a block that won't collapse (smooth stone, wooden planks, logs) you are completely safe from any harm caused by a collapse. In addition once you mined out a room you can safely dig down as much as you want, the ceiling won't come down. If you combine both, you can easily dig mineshafts without any support beam. You have to clear the occasional rubble, but that also clears the space above, allowing you to find ore faster.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be nice to see support beams adding strength with the addition of other beams, real mineshafts use one on either side of the tunnel with beam across for the added support.

Maybe since one beam only holds 4 horizontal beams, it'd make sense that if two verticals are holding the same set of horizontal beams would increase the vertical block strength. This would make the issue of using more resources but it seems the developers like the idea of having real uses for collected resources, that way they don't pile up unnecessarily.

I'll try to give an example, but with this top down example of beam placement, you have some generally uniform placement for straight line paths, and vertical beams being placed at maximum of 4 blocks away should really increase the neighboring beams to be much more sturdy.

VHHHHV

HOOOOH

HOOOOH

HOOOOH

HOOOOH

VHHHHV

  • V: Vertical
  • H: Horizontal
  • O: Empty

Just add another set of horizontal beams 4 blocks inline with the path, and repeat the process. As for angled or downward paths, those have always been a real risk to miners as I'm aware, so building ladders down to another level or taking right turns to get around may just need to be necessary.

This is just my idea on the matter though to make the best of it. It seems a lot like vanilla mineshafts, but it's not like the idea for those just appeared out of squares, know what I mean? That and this method is already known, so it is believable.

 

Just want to clarify this, but we changed support beams in 79 in that they are required to be placed between two verticals.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just want to clarify this, but we changed support beams in 79 in that they are required to be placed between two verticals.

That in mind, vertical supports connected to more than one conjoined horizontal connection would probably have more strength than a pair of connected vertical supports. A supportive structure is much sturdier than a supportive bar. that's why minetunnels are still found with supportive arches connected by longer lengths of wood in the direction of the tunnel, so the arches aren't compelled to sway under the weight. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm 4 blocks appears to be the max distance from the horizontal beam.

5th block can cause a cave in which can and will bring down the supported ceiling as well as it propagates.

Just suffocated even though was standing well back pretty much under my beam lol

 

Can't remember how it was before, but the beams appear to support 2 levels below, but 0 extra levels above.

So you cannot dig any blocks above the support beam without risking a cave in.

 

Oh and it supports cobblestone and dirt (I think as it did before) but not gravel.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am now at the verge of iron age in my 79.6 world. what i noticed with the new support beams and cave-in frequency is the same as vidaj already did. a cavein outside of the supported zone will propagate into the supported region, so as a miner you are not safe anywhere unless you use one of the cheaty tricks suggested by Two. Furthermore i do also think that the region around the block where caveins can be induced after mining was increased. In several occations i mined a block, heard the falling of severall stones but didnt see any. lateron i realised that there was a cave like 4 blocks behind where i was mining, a cave that had quiet a lot of debris inside once i found it :D.

 

What i think about these changes: The increased frequency of caveins i do really like, as well as the new rules to supports where you have to build an upside down U to accually support the ceiling which does look a lot better. However the fact that caveins propagate into the supported region is really a trubble to me. one would have to place another support beam every 4 tiles to avoid caveins. taking into account that one does not only mine vertically but often has to mine up or down it really starts go get a pain avoiding ANY kind of cavein. I would really like to see that reverted back to what it used to be - once supported you are safe, unless you remove the support. I just started as well to think about different "cheaty" methods to avoid getting crushed like useing one single plank every ceiling block to "support" it magically. This does currently seem to be so much more rewarding since it totally removes the risk of being crushed to death.

 

lets see what dunk and bioxx think of their new changes once they found time to test them out.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually really like the fact that cave-ins propogate into supported areas, it means you cant just build a cheap safe-zone with a few supports and then mine from there, you have to support your whole mine to really be safe, and that makes mining much more interesting than it ever was before. My mines look like mines, and by necessity. That is really cool imo

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice if we could sneak and look at the beam and it would show an overlay of the protected areas. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice if we could sneak and look at the beam and it would show an overlay of the protected areas.

That's not a bad idea, actually. Not bad at all!It should be doable, with semi-transparent colours like the soil nutrition system in agriculture. Like all exposed save-to-mine Stone blocks would get a green overlay or something.I do feel, we should get some aid, seeing that mining has become so much harder now ...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that were to happen I would want it to be a mode on a tool like the hoe with nutrients,  Maybe on the propick and its unlocked at a certain skill level. I think if it were just by shifting it would happen unintentionally a lot and get annoying.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites