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Two

Some observations of how people play

64 posts in this topic

A not+not+not+not makes ridiculously for one flavor, while not+not+not+not makes not for another flavor.

It is only Not+not because your cooking skill is too low.However I find it kind of disturbing as well, that after eating tons of food, Steve still can't tell which one is even the slightest sweet. Not sure if this is a new bug or intended.
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.... I only realized that a update was released when I couldn't get on the server.

Well, can you blame me for not checking for updates every other day?

 

Also, I find that all my food comes out ridiculously sweet and savory.

Seriously, what effects the flavors of ingredients?

I also can't understand how the flavors add up. A not+not+not+not makes ridiculously for one flavor, while not+not+not+not makes not for another flavor. 

 

Because you're missing the fact that the tooltips are relative to your player's preferred taste profile.

 

For the sake of example, I'm going to make up a bunch of numbers.

 

Let's say that each flavor is on a scale from 0 to 100.

 

Let's say that your player has the following preferred taste profile:

 

Sweet - 15, Sour - 60, Salty - 25, Savory - 10, Bitter - 85.

 

Now let's say that the berry that you picked has the following profile:

 

Sweet - 60, Sour - 60, Salty - 0, Savory - 15, Bitter 50.

 

On it's own, that flavor profile makes sense for a berry that is picked in that climate.

 

However, your player doesn't necessarily have preferred tastes that make sense.

 

So now we compare the two:

 

60 is a lot more than 15, so the tooltip says "Ridiculously Sweet"

60 is equal to 60, so the tooltip says "Perfectly Sour"

0 Is a lot less than 25, so the tooltip says "Not Salty"

15 is a little bit more than 10, so the tooltip says "Moderately Savory"

50 is a lot less than 85, so the tooltip says "Not Bitter"

 

Now we have another player, who's preferred taste profile is this:

 

Sweet - 60, Sour - 10, Salty - 0, Savory - 85, Bitter - 50

 

If you give that exact same berry to the second player, the tooltips they see are completely different.

 

60 is equal to 60, so the tooltip says "Perfectly Sweet"

60 is a lot more than 10, so the tooltip says "Ridiculously Sour"

0 is equal to 0, so the tooltip says "Perfectly Salty"

15 it a lot less than 85, so the tooltip says "Not Savory"

50 is equal to 50, so the tooltip says "Perfectly Bitter"

 

Nothing with that berry ever changed, it's just that it tastes different to different players with different flavor profiles.

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It is only Not+not because your cooking skill is too low.However I find it kind of disturbing as well, that after eating tons of food, Steve still can't tell which one is even the slightest sweet. Not sure if this is a new bug or intended.

 

Eating food doesn't affect your cooking skill. Only cooking it does.

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To piggy-back on the above example, we can talk about meals.

 

Once again, for the sake of example, made up numbers.

 

Your preferred flavor profile is:

 

Sweet - 15, Sour - 60, Salty - 25, Savory - 10, Bitter - 85.

 

That berry's flavor profile is:

 

Sweet - 60, Sour - 60, Salty - 0, Savory - 15, Bitter 50.

 

Now to make a meal, let's add in a salted, pickled, smoked horse meat with this flavor profile:

 

Sweet - 0, Sour - 40, Salty - 75, Savory 85, Bitter 50.

 

Which in reference to your preferred profile, would look something like "Not Very Sweet, Not Sour, Ridiculously Salty, Ridiculously Savory, Not Very Bitter"

 

The meal ends up with a flavor profile something like this (fake numbers, not the actual calculation, but it gets the point across):

 

Sweet - 0 + 60 = 60

Sour - 40 + 60 = 100

Salty - 75 + 0 = 75

Savory - 85 + 15 = 100

Bitter - 50 + 50 = 100

 

60 is way more than 15 - "Ridiculously Sweet"

100 is way more than 60 - "Ridiculously Sour"

75 is way more than 25 - "Ridiculously Salty"

100 is way more than 10 - "Ridiculously Savory"

100 is more than 85 - "Very Bitter"

 

To prove the point, look at the bitter values. Starting out, they are both only 50, which comes to around "Not Very Bitter" in reference to your flavor profile. However, when you combine them together, you just doubled the amount of bitterness, throwing the value over what you consider "Perfect" into the "Very Bitter" range.

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I just start jumping when I hear a cave in coming, rarely even take damage. :D 

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When you combine food together it just adds the flavor profiles?!, then when you add too much into one thing, every stat will be way too high. Why doesnt it like use persentages, for example with the above example, if the two were mixed at a 50-50 ratio, then the numbers, once added, should be divided by 2, which would make sence as each amount of flavor has twice as much food to season.

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My character must be really, really tollerant. Raw ingredients for me all start out as "Not", and the highest level they reach with flavors is basic...plain "Savory", or one of the other flavors.

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My character must be really, really tollerant. Raw ingredients for me all start out as "Not", and the highest level they reach with flavors is basic...plain "Savory", or one of the other flavors.

No. Your cooking skill is too low for your player to tell the difference. When your skill is low, there are very few options. Everything is either the taste, or it isn't. As your cooking skill increases, the messages become more descriptive.Edit: To clarify, let's say my player has a preferred taste of 75 sweet. When my cooking skill is low, everything with a sweet value of less than 75 is "Not Sweet" and everything with a sweet value above 75 is "Sweet." When my cooking skill increases, I see more descriptive values, such as "Not Very Sweet" when the taste is within a certain range below 75 or "Very Sweet" when it is within a certain range above 75.
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I just start jumping when I hear a cave in coming, rarely even take damage. :D

That sound made me throw my mouse and jump dead from my chair a few times. But so far no damage either.@Kittychanley: thanks for the very detailed explanation, I do understand a lot more about cooking now and why I do get everything as "Not ...". However as there is obviously lots of confusion about it, I have a suggestion for a minor change that hopefully will help all those other players out there that didn't read your post: change the tooltip to say "tastes not sweet"Because the following would be a lot clearer to me if I'd see it: 
BreadTastes not sweetTastes somewhat sourTastes ridiculously saltyTastes perfectly savoryTastes very bitter
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No. Your cooking skill is too low for your player to tell the difference. When your skill is low, there are very few options. Everything is either the taste, or it isn't. As your cooking skill increases, the messages become more descriptive.Edit: To clarify, let's say my player has a preferred taste of 75 sweet. When my cooking skill is low, everything with a sweet value of less than 75 is "Not Sweet" and everything with a sweet value above 75 is "Sweet." When my cooking skill increases, I see more descriptive values, such as "Not Very Sweet" when the taste is within a certain range below 75 or "Very Sweet" when it is within a certain range above 75.

Kitty, what happens when we combine stacks of the same food item but with different flavors? for example fruits from different areas or meat from different animals. Do they get averaged, the flavor of one replaces the other or something else?

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Sounds to me from Kitty's previous example that they are simply added together.

I guess the thing that makes it tough is that we don't know our flavour profile, this could take some time to work out!

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Kitty, what happens when we combine stacks of the same food item but with different flavors? for example fruits from different areas or meat from different animals. Do they get averaged, the flavor of one replaces the other or something else?

 

If you craft two pieces of food together that have different flavor profiles to create a single stack of food, it reverts the flavor profile to the default value. Averaging or combining profiles for that case would have just been too complicated, so we went with the "revert to default" route.

 

The combination of flavor profiles only happens when you are combining different ingredients together to make a meal or sandwich. Crafting two of the same ingredients together to make a larger piece of that ingredient is a whole different thing.

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When i started game i had 1000/1000 points of health. After some days of searching, and gathering food i had only 150/150. I understand mechanics of nutrition levels. I have to eat every kind of food (grain, vegetable, diary, etc.) but it is A LOT easier to put every item i have in the safe place and kill myself than keep trying gain some nutrition and be killed in unexpected moment and loss valuable items. This mod and especially this version is for suicidal type. This is very frustrating to keep trying really hard to stay alive and despite of this keep loosing this fight. It would be better even to start always with 100 hp than this. 

 

Generally bugs are commonly used by players because they have more sense than the way meant by author. For example in real world hut build from big wooden logs is normal thing with low tech. I don't use them, because of time needed to remove them. Instead i use small log piles. This is not normal or logic but this way is more useful.

 

I don't know if this is intended but i find it strange that full stack (160oz) of food don't fit in a ceramic vessel, but not full does. If this is intended then would be nice to have some sort of message to know when something is to large to fit.

 

In matter of light source if think that burning out torch is a good thing, but some other (expensive) permanent light source is needed (not pumpkin). Maybe oil lamp (made with metal, glass, etc.) for higher tech level. When we start burning out torch is not a problem, because we have small farm - easy to keep. In later game it is not pleasant running around to keep lit everything. In exploration and mines, on the other hand, torches are always good, because they are cheap.

 

Only one, little chunk of meat from cow? Really, this is cheap! Not real, not logical. I liked it more in previous version. A lot of meat, but very, very long time of animal breeding and fast decaying of meat. Maybe domestic animals should be wild in the beginning and run always from player?

 

On game start we have no food, but after a year there are plenty of it. What if some plants would needed more than a year to give a crop? Maybe giving better nutrition levels. This would give longer fun with developing plantation.

 

Wooden doors are useless because of a zombies. I don't use them at all. Instead i use sand or dirt. 

 

I just love cave ins ;) They enforce good planing of the mine and give thrill of emotions. I agree with others that they could do more damage.

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Generally bugs are commonly used by players because they have more sense than the way meant by author. For example in real world hut build from big wooden logs is normal thing with low tech. I don't use them, because of time needed to remove them. Instead i use small log piles. This is not normal or logic but this way is more useful.

 

I don't know if this is intended but i find it strange that full stack (160oz) of food don't fit in a ceramic vessel, but not full does. If this is intended then would be nice to have some sort of message to know when something is to large to fit.

 

Only one, little chunk of meat from cow? Really, this is cheap! Not real, not logical. I liked it more in previous version. A lot of meat, but very, very long time of animal breeding and fast decaying of meat. Maybe domestic animals should be wild in the beginning and run always from player?

 

The time it takes to break logs was decreased in 79, so it should be a lot easier to build with them now, especially since if you want 2 high log-piles, you need 17 logs because the bottom one has to be full to put the top one on, unless you do some weird workaround.

 

There is already a message on the food knowing if it will fit in the vessel or not. Almost every single item in Terrafirmacraft has a weight and a size value listed on the tooltip, this value changes for food depending on how many oz it is. Vessels can only hold items that are size small or less. So if your hunk of meat says "Heavy Large" then it is too big to fit in a vessel.

 

The only reason you are getting so little meat is because your butchery skill is too low. This means that you basically killed the cow by shredding its intestines, and contaminated all the rest of the meat. As your butchery skill gets higher, cows will drop more and more meat until it is back up to the ridiculously high value they dropped in 78.

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The time it takes to break logs was decreased in 79, so it should be a lot easier to build with them now, especially since if you want 2 high log-piles, you need 17 logs because the bottom one has to be full to put the top one on, unless you do some weird workaround.

I wouldn't call it a weird workaround, but you could just lay a bottom layer of sand or dirt and place the wood pile on it and you have a nice two high wall ...I do agree, that even with the reduced time, it still takes to long to take down placed logs, since they are supposed to be the building block for our first nights now!So we are all but forced to look for time saving workarounds ...
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I have to eat every kind of food (grain, vegetable, diary, etc.) but it is A LOT easier to put every item i have in the safe place and kill myself than keep trying gain some nutrition and be killed in unexpected moment and loss valuable items

This mod is not about being easy.  You're doing yourself a pretty big disservice to the spirit of the mod by playing this way.  Obviously you're allowed to play however you want, but balancing nutrition levels is a challenging part of the game and the point where you progress from eating nothing but carrots because that's all you can find to eating full meals which raise all your nutrition levels at once is a nice indicator of "Ok, I'm starting to get civilized and show this world who's boss".  I enjoy these little details that show my character progressing from a weak nomad just starting out to a healthy explorer.  However, in b78 you used to respawn with 1/2 full nutrition instead of completely full like in b79 and I'm not sure why it was changed.  I think spawning with half is better because it discourages things like what you suggested with just killing yourself to get back up to full health.

 

 

 

Only one, little chunk of meat from cow? Really, this is cheap! Not real, not logical. I liked it more in previous version. A lot of meat, but very, very long time of animal breeding and fast decaying of meat. Maybe domestic animals should be wild in the beginning and run always from player?

As Kitty pointed out, this too was changed from 78 to 79.  The amount of meat you get is now based on your butchering skill and is certainly more realistic than the previous meat explosion that would occur.  I could tell you for a fact that if I went out and slaughtered a cow right now I would mess a lot of stuff up and not get much usable meat.  Plus this also limits the amount of food available to players at the beginning to make it a bit more challenging, and makes you really avoid having to waste killing an animal if you can since you know you won't get much from it.  Kind of a "life or death" type situation.

 

 

 

On game start we have no food, but after a year there are plenty of it. What if some plants would needed more than a year to give a crop? Maybe giving better nutrition levels. This would give longer fun with developing plantation.

If we're going for realism, I don't think there are many food types that require more than a year to grow.  However, I think it'd be interesting to try drastically increasing the decay rate of some of the foods which would force you to have a pretty decent farm to stay alive.  I mean if you leave meat sitting out for a few hours, it's going to be gross pretty quickly.  Obviously this would be too fast for TFC, but I think if food decayed in a matter of a few days instead of a few weeks it would add some purpose to having a big farm.  But I'm sure some people would complain that that's just tedious and they don't want to have to spend so much time collecting food, they'd rather build, mine, etc.  Maybe an option in the config files to change the decay rate so each person can play how they want?

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This mod is not about being easy.

I know, i don't like easy either. I'd like progression not regression. So if it should be hard then lets start from 100 hp.

However, I think it'd be interesting to try drastically increasing the decay rate of some of the foods which would force you to have a pretty decent farm to stay alive.

I dissagree. In my opinion better way is going to diversity of food. Different difficulty to find species and grow them.
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Averaging or combining profiles for that case would have just been too complicated

 

To this I just have to say: not at all.

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However, I think it'd be interesting to try drastically increasing the decay rate of some of the foods which would force you to have a pretty decent farm to stay alive.

Food is already decaying fast enough. Without conservation methods, it will usually be gone before the next harvest. It is currently even a good idea to not harvest until the crop begins to die, to keep your food from decaying for as long as you can.
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I tend to play nomadically with a small group of 1-3 other people. We move almost every other in-game day, collecting crops and materials, as well as finding the locations of animals. Once we have accumulated a large number of bronze-giving ores, we settle down somewhere with an iron-bearing ore. Then we set up a house and split up, heading out to bring home various types of animals, ores, or other things that we encountered but did not pick up. Then we progress from there in our big house. Since until the house stage we keep  undoing and redoing our house, the torch thing isn't really an issue. Once the house gets going I'm sure it'll be a pain, but hopefully there will be some kind of lantern we can use in the future (I refuse to use pumpkins).

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  Maybe an option in the config files to change the decay rate so each person can play how they want?

 

There IS an option in the config files to change decay rate. There has been one ever since decay was implemented.

 

Here is a quote of the option in the config.

 

 

"food decay" {   # This is a global multiplier for food decay. Unlike FoodDecayRate which only modifies the base decay and not the environmental effect upon decay, this multiplier will multiply against the entire amount. Set to 0 to turn decay off.   D:FoodDecayMultiplier=1.0   # This number causes base decay to equal 50% gain per day. If you wish to change, I recommend you look up a y-root calculator 1.0170378966055869517978300569768^24 = 1.5   D:FoodDecayRate=1.0170378966055869 

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I think the mod should have worked more on food variety for full nutrition instead of taste. Taste is just too surreal for a game. We would be better off making sure people eat a variety of different fruits vegetables and grains. The way it is right now, once you find the tasty food you can eat just that one food (ok 5 foods) for the rest of your life. Also  the concept of sandwich as the healthiest food is really odd. 

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I think the mod should have worked more on food variety for full nutrition instead of taste. Taste is just too surreal for a game. We would be better off making sure people eat a variety of different fruits vegetables and grains. The way it is right now, once you find the tasty food you can eat just that one food (ok 5 foods) for the rest of your life. Also the concept of sandwich as the healthiest food is really odd.

I guess, sandwich is just a name in this case, it has nothing at all to do with the sandwiches filled with sauces etc. that we eat today. That aside, I also do not really like sandwich and salad as the names of all meals we can cook together. I like the old "meals" much better ...
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I'm looking forward to cauldrons of stew and casseroles baked in clay ovens... butter churn, pies and porridge. It's all just speculation and dreams at this point but I'm still hopeful.

 

The day I can invite my friends over and serve them a proper feast will be a happy day indeed.

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A stews seem great to me, I was expecting them instead of salads actually. You can just chuck a whole bunch of random ingredients together and you'll be eating for a month.

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