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Maga

Food decay based on food type / container

25 posts in this topic

After playing 79 SMP for a while I was wondering if it's feasible to tweak the way food decays. I think it's a little odd that fresh tomatoes and dry grain, both stored in the same conditions will decay at roughly the same rate. I think it's sensible to make the distinction between the decay rates of different foods more dramatic. If I throw barrel full of potatoes in a cool dry place they should last for months. MUCH longer than blueberries (which seem to decay at roughly the same rate) Apples should also last much longer compared to, for example, peaches, which should go to mush faster than they currently do. Grain silos keep dry grain perfectly good for YEARS irl but for some reason dry grain in a TFC barrel will be at 40% decay within a matter of months.

 

Now you might tell me to cut the decay off... and I would if it was single player, but TFC is said to be balanced for multiplayer and in my case I have time to log on for only about 2 months of the year (if I'm lucky). In the time between going to bed, getting up, working and coming home I've lost  60 pounds of maize. This, to me, does not seem balanced for SMP at all.

 

Long story short I think there should be an increase in foods that more closely mirror their real world counterparts. In SSP go ahead and chow down on plums and peppers, but on SMP there should be ways for people to store grains for longer periods of time so they aren't left with empty cupboards when they log on the next time.

 

What are your thoughts?

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The problem with this is that for simplicity reasons, the "base decay rate" for food is simply based on its food category. If we start making individual base rates for each different piece of food, it becomes a lot of work. Keep in mind that there are 20 different fruits alone. That's 20 different values to pick out and make sure they make sense when referenced against each other. If my counting is correct, there is a total of 73 different items in TFC that decay. The base rate for grains is a value that is balanced as an average of all the different things that you can make out of grain. While it may be true that grain can sit in a silo for years on end, dough decays fairly quickly, and most bread I know of is moldy within a week or two.

 

As for the problem of the food decaying a whole bunch when you are logged off, that is what the Food Decay Protection system is for. And this system is already configurable. If you are keeping all of your grain for yourself, and you are worried about it decaying while you are logged off because other players are loading the chunks where you live, then keep the grain in your inventory when you log off.

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When living in a cooperative town it's kinda rude to log off with everyone's food :S

 

Example: Game checks barrel, look at contents. Are all contents grain? If yes, consider it like a silo and lower decay. If no, assume the other food present helps spoil the grain and decay it away like normal.

Is that too much code to ask for? Or does it just not appeal to dev team?

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If it's everybody's food, why aren't they eating and maintaining it? If they are eating it, they should probably contribute to the trimming of decay every time they go to get more food, especially since trimming and combining is so quick to do with the new hotkeys.

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Because like me, they can't be on all the time. It would be nice if someone from the town was always online, but there's only a couple of us and the other's have busy lives too I'm sure. Frankly the decay system plans for the ideal. Usually I find it safer to plan for the worst and hope for the best, more so when there are multiple people involved.

 

EDIT: We don'ta actually starve, I should make it clear that salted dried meat keeps wonderfully, so thank you for that. I just wish there was a way to keep grains at the very least one year. More would be nice since we don't always catch the planting/harvesting windows.

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If you have a specific length of time when consistently no players are online, you should change the FDP system config to be less than that length. No players online has the same effect as logging off with it in your inventory.

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It's more like... people online but 4000 blocks away doing their own thing. There's a good chance this won't be a big issue when things die down in a few weeks and people aren't as active.

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That still works. The system works simply on the food being either in an inventory of a player who is logged out, or an unloaded chunk.

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I thought when you got into food that had been unloaded that it would check the times and decay itself the appropriate amount to catch up... is that no longer he case in 79?

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I thought when you got into food that had been unloaded that it would check the times and decay itself the appropriate amount to catch up... is that no longer he case in 79?

 

It does. The food decay protection system that has been in since 78 checks to see how long it has been unloaded first. If it has been unloaded long enough, then it only does "catch up" for a single in-game day's worth of decay, instead of "catching up" the entire time it was unloaded.

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It does. The food decay protection system that has been in since 78 checks to see how long it has been unloaded first. If it has been unloaded long enough, then it only does "catch up" for a single in-game day's worth of decay, instead of "catching up" the entire time it was unloaded.

 

Ah, that's nice. Wasn't aware of that. Still haven't wrapped up my thoughts on grain, which I guess is really the food that gets my goat. The others are fine as long as you put in the time and resources to take care of them.

 

So, to try and finish up with my main concern, I still don't know of a good way to store grain. Meat has salting and smoking, veggies and fruits can be pickled... dairy has always been a champ with the cheese making and there's grain, off on it's own, rotting away and crying silent tears from lack of attention. Is there any plans to add a long term storage solution for grains? It's the only food group left without one which seems kinda out of place. Granary multiblock perhaps? Just tossing that idea out there, could be fun.

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Ah, that's nice. Wasn't aware of that. Still haven't wrapped up my thoughts on grain, which I guess is really the food that gets my goat. The others are fine as long as you put in the time and resources to take care of them.

 

So, to try and finish up with my main concern, I still don't know of a good way to store grain. Meat has salting and smoking, veggies and fruits can be pickled... dairy has always been a champ with the cheese making and there's grain, off on it's own, rotting away and crying silent tears from lack of attention. Is there any plans to add a long term storage solution for grains? It's the only food group left without one which seems kinda out of place. Granary multiblock perhaps? Just tossing that idea out there, could be fun.

 

The plan hasn't been finalized, so I'm not going to say anything more than this - If you put jute fibers on a loom, it makes burlap.

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!!!

 

:D I had seen burlap in nei addon and was hoping against hope that there would be burlap sacks full of onions and potatoes in my root cellar... Holy smokes that's exciting. I love blocks that add a "feel" to rooms. Like large vessels, just one more block to store things instead of everything being in boring labelled chests makes  such a difference to home decor. #Hype

 

I know this is a long shot but... potato sack races? If you could wear those bad boys on your feet for randomly changing speed/jump effects that might be the best Easter egg since alcohol. 

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I think that the both of you are bringing a good point. One is that different type of food should have different decay rate and that there is too much items to get them all custom values.

 

However, I think that food can be easily regrouped in categories and make these categories have their own decay rate, their own preservation techniques and even their own preservation container

 

I would propose something like this.

 

1. Grain

Have a really long shelf live, it include all whole grain, grain, ground grain (flour), maize and soybeans. These items could have the best shelf life if stored in the right container (a sile chest?) or else, it can get humid and start molding or germinating. This is assuming that it's not sweet corn that be usually cook and eat with butter, but maize we use to make cornmeal and transform into tortillas for example. It also assume that the soybeans are harvested when dry and not fresh (it's commonly called Edamame). The only thing is that raw dry soy beans are not really edible, it should be soaked in water and cooked or transformed in some ways.

 

2. Bakery products

Relatively short shelf life, about the same as other fresh product. That would be for the dough and bread and potentially any other products made from flour.

 

3. Fresh product

Relatively short shelf life. That categoty include all the watery plants like berries and fruits (in the botanical way, so pepper and tomatoes for example). These items could be conserved longer if dried, candied or sealed in vinegar (depending of the type of product). It would also include milk, that can be better conserved as cheese.

 

4. Long life fruit/vegetable

These are some items that can be stored for a long time if they are in a coold and dry place. These are Potato, carot, garlic, onion, rutabaga, cabbage, and apple. If properly stored, these can last almost a year in real life.

 

5. Meat

Meat have relative short shelf life, but many ways to preserve it, like smoking and drying.

 

6. Chesse

You know, cheese can stay good  for a long time, it mostly depend on the condition and kind of cheese.

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-snip-

 

Fantasticly put, thanks for that and it mirror's my thoughts as well. The burlap sounds great but I still hope they will add something like this on top of it. We don't need dozens of cross-referenced decay rates, just these 6 would do fine.

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I think that the both of you are bringing a good point. One is that different type of food should have different decay rate and that there is too much items to get them all custom values.

 

However, I think that food can be easily regrouped in categories and make these categories have their own decay rate, their own preservation techniques and even their own preservation container

 

I would propose something like this.

 

1. Grain

Have a really long shelf live, it include all whole grain, grain, ground grain (flour), maize and soybeans. These items could have the best shelf life if stored in the right container (a sile chest?) or else, it can get humid and start molding or germinating. This is assuming that it's not sweet corn that be usually cook and eat with butter, but maize we use to make cornmeal and transform into tortillas for example. It also assume that the soybeans are harvested when dry and not fresh (it's commonly called Edamame). The only thing is that raw dry soy beans are not really edible, it should be soaked in water and cooked or transformed in some ways.

 

2. Bakery products

Relatively short shelf life, about the same as other fresh product. That would be for the dough and bread and potentially any other products made from flour.

 

3. Fresh product

Relatively short shelf life. That categoty include all the watery plants like berries and fruits (in the botanical way, so pepper and tomatoes for example). These items could be conserved longer if dried, candied or sealed in vinegar (depending of the type of product). It would also include milk, that can be better conserved as cheese.

 

4. Long life fruit/vegetable

These are some items that can be stored for a long time if they are in a coold and dry place. These are Potato, carot, garlic, onion, rutabaga, cabbage, and apple. If properly stored, these can last almost a year in real life.

 

5. Meat

Meat have relative short shelf life, but many ways to preserve it, like smoking and drying.

 

6. Chesse

You know, cheese can stay good  for a long time, it mostly depend on the condition and kind of cheese.

I love this.

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I don't think that could be too hard to add to the game, make the 6 groups like with the current types of food. Then have a list that holds the names/ids of the items in said group. Then maybe a customizable decay rate per group, this would make it easy for devs later on to add/remove/tweak things. The same system could also work with config files if the player base would want/need that. However, I'm just happy with better balanced decay rates.

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I loved the latest addition of smoking and the barrel mechanics that deal with preservation are great too. I'm glad that burlap is in the works for root and tuber type veggies.

 

I look at the wheat that has been sitting in sealed buckets in my garage, it's been there for 3 years. It's absolutely fine. Then I log into a server and the grain I harvested 2 weeks ago has been sitting in a loaded chunk and it's half gone. My personal opinion is that in addition to burlap sacks, a multiblock granary is desperately needed but my ideas regarding the specifics of that are fairly fleshed out probably deserve a massive post elsewhere, if not a new thread entirely.

 

These two new things (burlap and granaries) combined with a handful of different classes of food with carrying decay rates more or less identical to what alice has suggested would turn the food decay system from a work in progress to a fully rounded out and enjoyable finished project.

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It appears there may have been a bit of miscommunication. The burlap is for grain, there are no plans for root/tuber veggies.

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It appears there may have been a bit of miscommunication. The burlap is for grain, there are no plans for root/tuber veggies.

 

Oh... I see.

 

Well then, that's... ok I guess. Better than the current system but I still believe what I had outlined above would be a better solution. More code no doubt, but better for the end users.

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Keeping code very simple isn't the best way to go, it's why Minecraft is so boring. Majority of Minecrafts features either feel incomplete or lack depth. This type of change would be well worth the wait, even if it takes months. I know there are impatient people who want things updated as soon as possible so they ask for very simple things, but those things get boring very fast. Major releases is what keep games fresh and fun.

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For thousands of years people stored grains in clay pots and vessels. 

We already have large vessels in the mod, and they can be sealed. 

It makes sense to be able to store grains in large vessels indefinitely, Or at least for many years.

I have no idea how hard would be to code that, but it seams like we should differentiate between seeds and all other stages of grains.

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