Shields a defensive weapon

[Necoxus 54]

Shields a defensive weapon

 

I like the idea of shields, they could be made out of wood to start with then progress through the varies metals. In order to use them they must be on your hotbar, have a key to block with it so it doesn't have to be in you hand [Dual wielding is a thing, the Romans did it with shields and spears.] While blocking almost like deflecting a ghast ball in regular minecraft you block incoming projectiles. You can block and ram your enemy to inflict a low amount of crushing damage.

 

As far as crafting goes I mentioned above starting with wood, this would require the player too at least have a saw, and have enlarged their crafting space. I would suggest to go as far as have a knapping like system but for wood, or more comparable to how you need a knife to shape leather. However for the sake of not writing a new system just for one item, here is an example recipe below.

 

http://i.imgur.com/YufTBAs.png

http://i.imgur.com/uwvXHIJ.png

 

Now for the metal versions, I suggest a taking a metal sheet, or double sheet. Place in anvil while hot last 3 steps have to be hits. I got inspired form a post in this topic here: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/6989-1001-small-suggestions-community-brainstorming/page-2

[lightningtiger88 19]

I assume that by 'dual wielding' you mean a sword and shield, not two swords. I don't think that a shield would be all that good as an active part of gameplay, but I can see them being an extra piece of armour which you just put in a 'slot' to act as 'multipurpose' armour. That would be a good way to make it uniquely useful in the TFC system, because that would mean even if you are missing a helmet for example, your shield has a % chance to act as the 'armour' for your head. 

 

However, I'm not sure about the metal versions. They could be bucklers, but historically most shield were still made of wood and leather well into the medieval period. Metal is simply too heavy for a shield, although it can be used to reinforce a large wooden shield with a boss or binding.

[AllenWL 186]

I agree with lightningtiger I think shields should be 'worn' in a slot(maybe the back slot? Dunno) then have a certain chance to work.

 

However, instead of reducing damage like armor, I think shields should negate all damage if it blocks. Of course that means the shield should have some limitations, such as only works for damage coming from the front, or has low durability, or a low block chance or something.

 

Or, we could do something like if the shield is work in the slot, and you block using a sword/mace/whatever, you use the shield instead

[lightningtiger88 19]

That could work too, but I think that the 'multipurpose armour' would mesh better with the current combat system. Shields would be an easily replaceable, dispensable type of armour which you can 'get better with'. I think it's certainly believable for a person to get better with a shield and thus have a higher chance of blocking with it, and so a player who has died and can't afford to replace their armour will still be doing better having leveled up their 'Shield' skill, since the Shield would be quite cheap. If it were to block 100% of damage for a certain amount of hits, I can see it being abused with people carrying several or if it had only a low block chance it wouldn't be reliable enough to use. 

 

Of course, being made of wood, I wouldn't expect it to last long. 

 

EDIT: This would also allow for shield designed against certain damage types. The armours at the moment lack customisability against damage types, largely all having similar distributions of protection except for leather. Different kinds of shields could fill that spot and allow customised protection against certain damage types, using large and round shields with a high area but mostly made of lightweight leather for piercing damage, knights/heater shields to protect against the slashing damage, and small bucklers to try and deflect the heavy power of a mace by parrying it away.

[Necoxus 54]

I was think along the lines of just one shield for the sake of not confusing everyone, but a couple different shield types would be cool too. As far as damage types goes, I think it would be defensive against piercing and crushing damage, and very weak to slashing. The reason being is an axe/sword could simply split the shield down the middle. To address the metal shields maybe it be a larger process, make a metal frame then fit the wooden piece inside, then attach the handle.To prevent players from abusing  the shield and having to many there is a way [idk how this is done, I do code in javascript but not at the level modders do, at least not yet.] to make the player drop the item to balance the shield, however I don't think its a problem to have them in there inventory other it is only a problem when more than one is on their hotbar because the shield is only active when its on the hotbar. Even though it being a type of armour and wearable would work better with the current system, I feel that wouldn't do it justice as AllenWL suggested above with right click of sword or mace it makes the shield block instead. It should be something that players have to learn to use, like how not every player in regular minecraft figures out how to deflect a ghast ball back. In that sense though the arrows and javelins shouldn't go flying back at the thrower just they should fall to the ground beside where you blocked.

[lightningtiger88 19]

Good thinking, but unfortunately I know from experience that it's very hard to split a shield unless the shield is legitimately a plank of wood and nothing else. Contrary to popular belief, wood is actually quite a strong material and steel swords aren't just going to cut through it cleanly. If shields were that easily broken, they would never have been used as commonly and as often as they have been throughout history.

[Necoxus 54]

Good thinking, but unfortunately I know from experience that it's very hard to split a shield unless the shield is legitimately a plank of wood and nothing else. Contrary to popular belief, wood is actually quite a strong material and steel swords aren't just going to cut through it cleanly. If shields were that easily broken, they would never have been used as commonly and as often as they have been throughout history.

 

I thinking more along the axe breaking it not so much the sword. But either way I didn't mean for the shield to break I was just explaining damage types. So if it is not weak to slashing could it just be a defense against all types just on a lower scale?

[lightningtiger88 19]

It could be, but we already have that with armour, which is why i think it would be interesting to have specific shields.

[AllenWL 186]

How about a shield acts sorta like a anvil or a loaded barrel/large vessel, only able to be carried in the back slot, and if not, prevents you from moving? That would prevent players from being able to tote around tons of shields.

 

As for what a shield does, I thought a bit about it, and what if, you use the shield when you 'block' with a sword/mace/etc, but, the moment you block, you get say, half a second of time when you are immune to all damage coming from your front. After that time, the shield just acts as a multipurpose armor . There could be a delay from you blocking, and the block being initiated, and a small 'recharge' timer for shield blocking to prevent spamming the block button for damage immunity.

 

This way, you could deflect all damage as long as you have a shield and you're skilled enough, but even if you aren't, you can still use it for a multipurpose armor when you don't have enough stuff for a full set. And since you can't attack when you're using it, and can't use it while you attack, it's not a real replacement for armor.

[Necoxus 54]

I don't think making a shield a back slotted item is valid, shields are meant to be light and strong. Other mods have done things, where you can't hold more than one item in you hotbar. Plus in my opinion the shield should only be active when its on your hotbar.

 

I like the idea of you block with your sword or mace, and this instead triggers the shield while it is active on your hotbar. It would be really cool to see players holding shields like they hold items, but like in the other hand so it almost looks like dual wielding. As for the bonus while blocking it gives protection from on 3 damage types but at a lower level than armour.

Plus while players are blocking, the shield will take damage for every hit the player takes while blocking and they can't attack while blocking.

 

I think we need a devs opinion at this point.

[AllenWL 186]

I don't know about the shield in hotbar thing, because people don't normally go around with shields on their belts or whatever, you know? They put it on their backs, or on saddles and such, and put it on their arm just to battle.

 

And if a shield just needs to be in the hotbar, what's to prevent people from toting along tons of shields? I think the shields should be in the back slot or similar slot. We can still have people hold shields in the other hand by having something like, when people equip a weapon that they can block with(sword, mace, etc), the shield instead of rendering on their backs, render on their other hand.

[Necoxus 54]

I don't know about the shield in hotbar thing, because people don't normally go around with shields on their belts or whatever, you know? They put it on their backs, or on saddles and such, and put it on their arm just to battle.

 

And if a shield just needs to be in the hotbar, what's to prevent people from toting along tons of shields? I think the shields should be in the back slot or similar slot. We can still have people hold shields in the other hand by having something like, when people equip a weapon that they can block with(sword, mace, etc), the shield instead of rendering on their backs, render on their other hand.

 

I think I've said this a few times just as you have said the "what stops people" part a couple times, so for the shields powers to be used I think it should be on the hot bar "like in the hands" kinda. Plus many mods and plugins and whatever can prevent players from having certain things in their inventory and such, so IF player has shield on hotbar and player tries to put another shield on hotbar player leaves inventory extra shield jumps out of hotbar.

[lightningtiger88 19]

The thing is, if you put it in the hotbar it takes up valuable space. Considering that it's being used in a combat scenario, having everything you need on the hotbar is crucial. 

 

TFC already introduces an extra tool and an extra weapon that we should keep on the hotbar during combat as best practice. We have nine slots:

 

Pickaxe

Pro Pick

Sword

Mace

Bow/Javelin

Torches

Blocks

Water Bottle

Food

 

^That's already filled out. And then there's also these

 

Axe

Shovel

Rope (For your horse)

Support Beams (If you're in a cave)

Stupendous amounts of junk that make their way into your hotbar

 

So you see, the shield, which wouldn't serve an active purpose on your hotbar and would simply serve to enable your rightclick block with your weapon a bit more effective, would be a bit of a bother. Even though it might simulate the fact that you can't carry a shield and a bunch of other stuff, at that point it's not a lot of fun. You'd be missing a couple crucial things and have a bunch of stuff to mess around with when you need to swap your hotbar around.

[Vaelkyri 26]

People are overthinking this.

 

We have the option now to mount objects on the player -see barrels.

 

Mount a model off the left arm, change the block animation  that already exists to use that arm/create basic block animation, add in when blocking with shield equipped then damage is reduced/blocked for durability.

 

 

Now I know its not as simple as that, but the ideas being thrown around about hot bars etc are just over complication.

[Donnie 0]

shield and spear would be pretty OP if it worked realistically. Provided you dont let a zombie get close to you then you are pretty untouchable

[AllenWL 186]

I think I've said this a few times just as you have said the "what stops people" part a couple times, so for the shields powers to be used I think it should be on the hot bar "like in the hands" kinda. Plus many mods and plugins and whatever can prevent players from having certain things in their inventory and such, so IF player has shield on hotbar and player tries to put another shield on hotbar player leaves inventory extra shield jumps out of hotbar.

But that won't keep the player from shoving shields into his inventory then shift-clicking them into the hotbar. So the player will still be able to carry around tons of shields, he just won't be able to switch as fast as if it was all in the hotbar. I mean, the hotbar isn't exactly the only inventory we have. And that would mean we have to make a new code to do that.

But on second thought. Hmm...

Is there a need to limit how much shields someone can carry? 

 

 

The thing is, if you put it in the hotbar it takes up valuable space. Considering that it's being used in a combat scenario, having everything you need on the hotbar is crucial. 

 

TFC already introduces an extra tool and an extra weapon that we should keep on the hotbar during combat as best practice. We have nine slots:

 

Pickaxe

Pro Pick

Sword

Mace

Bow/Javelin

Torches

Blocks

Water Bottle

Food

 

^That's already filled out. And then there's also these

 

Axe

Shovel

Rope (For your horse)

Support Beams (If you're in a cave)

Stupendous amounts of junk that make their way into your hotbar

 

So you see, the shield, which wouldn't serve an active purpose on your hotbar and would simply serve to enable your rightclick block with your weapon a bit more effective, would be a bit of a bother. Even though it might simulate the fact that you can't carry a shield and a bunch of other stuff, at that point it's not a lot of fun. You'd be missing a couple crucial things and have a bunch of stuff to mess around with when you need to swap your hotbar around.

 

Ah.. not really.

Think about it. You would need food and water more or less all the time, and blocks, especially non-gravity effected ones are very useful, but the rest of the items?

 

I don't need to carry a sword, a mace, and a javelin/bow. I just need to carry one to counter whatever mob I suck at dealing with.The only time I'll need to carry two weapons is if the weapon I'm using is a piercing one. Then, I have to carry another weapon for skeletons.So really, I just need to carry a sword or a mace(depending on whether zombies or skeletons are more dangerous to me) and possibly a ranged weapon.And If I'm going to go caving, a ranged weapon is more or less useless due to the cramped space, so I'm better off just taking a good mace or sword.If I'm going to fight mobs, I have no need for any block-breaking tools.Unless I'm going to move animals, rope isn't needed as well.Torches are only needed for caving/night travel or building.Pro-pick are only needed when I'm looking for mining, same as support beams, and shovels aren't really needed for anything other than charcoal pits and saving time. Axes are only useful for chopping trees or building with wood as well.And the stupendous amount of junk that ends up in the hotbar should not really bother you at all if you planned accordingly.Really, the only reason you would carry all those items in your inventory is if you can't be bothered to get the appropriate gear for what you want to do, or are planning to go around doing everything until your inventory is full to the brim or something.For mining/caving, all you need is food, water, a pick, propick, support beams, shovel, torches, blocks, and a weapon. You won't need a shield as your goal is to get ores, not fight. And you should have lit up the cave beforehand anyways, and just have the torch/jack-o-lantern and weapon for stragglers and any area you dig out.For 'cleaning' a cave, all you need is food, water, pick, blocks, light source, weapon ,shovel. You won't need more as you're trying to light up a cave to make it safer, not get ores from it.If you want to explore, food, water, light, block, and weapon is all you really need, with the possibility of a rope, shovel or axe if you need. That leaves 1~4 slots open.

TL;DR

Unless you're bad at organizing your inventory and choosing what you need, you shouldn't need all those, and should have plenty of space.

 

shield and spear would be pretty OP if it worked realistically. Provided you dont let a zombie get close to you then you are pretty untouchable

But we don't have spears and a javelin won't be usable with a shield, you know, you can't block with it?

But yes, if we had a spear as a long-reaching melee weapon that could be used with a shield, that would be very OP

[Faelanira 3]

I'm with Vaelkyri, mounting the shield on the player, say when its in that back slot, sounds like the best way to go. However I think to keep the shield from being too op it should only block damage in two areas, head+torso or torso+legs (maybe make it toggleable). 

[Necoxus 54]

What if we had some more slots like with the baubles mod, I know me and a few other players use back-slots for other things. Having to place the shield there would be counter-productive to the idea I was suggesting. If we had a slot for the arm, then that would be a better place for the shield, however the shields aren't that heavy they were made light and durable. So player should be able to carry shield in the inventory, however let's go with they can't use it if it's not in the arm slot or back slot, or the whatever slot.

[Guest Elagn]

Much of this topic is linked to inventory, but for me, i would make it so you can have 1 item in each hand at any one time, for ballance, tools such as a pickaxe or axe or shovel would require both hands on it to operate. The shield should be an option you can have for the off hand that has a small pasive armor increase and a much larger increase when used to block incoming shots, but it only operates for a short time at a time, and only blocks in front when in use. The other hand can have a melee weapon that only requires one hand, such as a sword or mace. Their would be a cooldown between when you can use the shield, so it isnt the end all in a fight against several other melee assultants, but is pretty good at blocking ranged weapons when used correctly. A spear or halberd with a longer reach would be awesome too, get like 10 people together and form a phalanx to attack or defend. For ballance, bows and javelins when being used should also require the use of both hands

[Necoxus 54]

Good idea, sums up everything talked about and I like your idea.

[lightningtiger88 19]

I feel like anything to do with dual wielding things departs too much from conventional Minecraft mechanics. We should try to keep things within the system we already have, not work out an entirely new system. I feel like TFC at the moment lacks the inter-connected nature of many other mods in that each mechanic is cool on its own but there isn't a lot of cross-disciplinary things. Rather than adding an entirely new system why not try to fit the shield idea into the system in a way which enhances it?

[Necoxus 54]

Dual wielding was my way of comparing, to such real life things. I was not meaning to suggest another slot for the other hand or whatever. I think that one thing that TFC hasn't spent much time on is the pvp aspect of it. This was intended to go along with some other improvements to pvp gameplay. I do understand your point, however I disagree as far as defense goes everything like that is passive, meaning the player doesn't control it. A shield is something that should be controlled by the player and only grants defense when used correctly.