Arrow Heads: Stone and Beyond

[Eskamoe_II 7]

It seems for the man with a fondness for ranged weapondry that TFC offers a very limited prospect. Whilst adding the Javalin to the ranged weapon types, it is haranged on both the javalin and the arrow requiring flint (which can become quite rare, especially in SMP environments). What I suggest is adding alternative head types (Stone, zinc, tin, etc etc on to red steel) whilst also changing how arrows are created by adding detail to the head creation instead of just aquiring a stick, a feather, a piece of flint, and a little spit n' sunshine to cobble an arrow together.

Example:

The first tier of arrow head would be stone. Unlike stone tools that just take cobble to create, stone arrow heads require a piece of Stone. (ie mined all around to aquire)

1. Piece of Stone is collected.

2. Stone must be put on an anvil (stone or better) and with a "Arrow Head Plan" hammered into a "Stone Arrow Head."

(For those to whom it is a lynch-pin, think of it as taking a piece of stone and cracking pieces off with the hammer to make the arrowhead shape.)

3. Then taking that "Stone Arrow Head" and applying it with the traditional stick, feather, and spit n' sunshine, a "Stone Arrow" is created.

Further this same method could be used with the different metals available, slightly increasing the damage (and/or maybe survivability) of the arrows as their metal tech increases. Simply replace the stone collected with the metal ingot type wanted.

A few issues that came to my mind I'll try to head off right at the get-go with solutions:

1. A single ingot for a single "Arrow Head" would be a tremendous loss.

Have the recipe create multiple "Arrow Head" items when smithed. IE 1 zinc ingot hammered into 4 or 8 "Zinc Arrow Head"s. Additionally if you want the Stone to produce less arrows per hammering as its easier to aquire, just have the stone arrow head smithing only create 1 or 2, instead of the increased 4 or 8 for metal arrow heads.

2. Arrows already do a sizeable amount of damage, increasing their damage with each tier would end with devastating arrows.

If this is not desired there are two methods to head it off; 1st, lower the damage the inital "Stone Arrow" does so that the damage per arrow towards later tiers is still higher than the original arrow damage, but not "devastating". 2nd, if this is possible, negate some or all of the damage increase by instead giving the arrows an increased chance of surviving a successful hit by dropping as loot with the enemy upon death, or as an immediate drop like javalins do on some occasions.

Feedback?

[Lycheborne 37]

i would love more arrow tips and or recipes....id like stayin with flint too...but add the the kinds you talked about...flintnapping use to be a valued trait.

Id like to see this idea put into the mod....maybe include flintnapping to get arrow heads made...

Also like adjusting the arrow survival and damage idea to fit better with this idea...

[cornbread4u2 13]

iron/steel/bronze are the most commonly used arrowheads due to availability/hardness. being able to make a red steel arrow should imo be a waste of resources and shouldn't give much more than that. making maybe steel the max dmg on an arrow and leaving it at that dmg to just cap it at steel.

basically the dmg should increase till steel and then cap there but you can still make higher grade metal/alloy arrows it would just be a waste of resources.

[SierraKhaar 20]

Depends On how you look at waste of resources, no doubt new harder enemies will be added, getting a few arrows into them before clashing with swords will mean alot, but yes as the enemies are now it would be a waste.

[Teranz 37]

More arrow tips would be usefull like i said in another post; it is hard enought to find flint. So more arrow tips would be quiet good!

[barkingnoise 19]

The first tier of arrow head would be stone.

I would suggest making stone arrows do less damage than flint arrows. Flint is easier to make sharp, most other stones aren't, to my knowledge.

1. A single ingot for a single "Arrow Head" would be a tremendous loss.

Have the recipe create multiple "Arrow Head" items when smithed.

Fun fact, that's how it was in early minecraft.

But yes, I agree.

I also agree with capping it at steel, seeing how much more damage a steel arrow would do compared to flint.

[Crysyn 179]

iron/steel/bronze are the most commonly used arrowheads due to availability/hardness. being able to make a red steel arrow should imo be a waste of resources and shouldn't give much more than that. making maybe steel the max dmg on an arrow and leaving it at that dmg to just cap it at steel.

basically the dmg should increase till steel and then cap there but you can still make higher grade metal/alloy arrows it would just be a waste of resources.

Let people figure out on their own what is a waste or not (Like is anyone actually using metal shovels? For Shame! Hehe).. Anywho.. Yeah flint is nice and heading on up the chain all the way to the end would be good. But you would definitely need multiple arrow heads per ingot.. No way you will ever convince me the metal needed to make a solid hammer or pick axe would make me less than 20 arrow heads or not around 40 or so. I think the biggest problem here would be how to register that into the smithing interface.. Maybe 'quality' in smithing arrowheads directly relates to the quantity you get?

[Eskamoe_II 7]

The quantity you get in exchange for the durability as it effecs other items would be a nice touch. I assume it could be made so that multiple items can be stacked on the output slot when you smith it?

[Michidez 9]

It would be mutch better if the metal arrowheads have a chance of not getting destroyed, but being a part of the loot or bouncing off. How higher the tier of metal, how higher chance and the more damage.

[Peffern 94]

I think that normal stone arrows should do 1 heart (1.5 with crit), metals(bismuth, tin, zinc, copper, iron) would do 2.5 (3 with crit), then alloys(basically everything else except for blue and red steel) would do 3.5 (4 with crit) and then blue and red steel would do 4 (4.5 with crit) considering normal vanilla arrows do 5 with crit, this seems like a good parabolic progression. It fits with the tin pickaxe is several times stronger than stone but copper is only 50% better than tin, etc. However, there would have to be some incentive to make alloys so maybe every next tier has a chance of popping off like has been said.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I disagree with the stone arrows, simply on the grounds that flint is chips of (certain kinds of) stone already. I can see maybe adding a functionality to combine certain types of cobble with a stone hammer in the crafting area to make flint (I say the crafting area because I can make bits of flint on just my porch irl with a hammer, no anvil required). Shale cobble would be a good starting choice I think.

As for the bronze, iron, and steel arrows tho, I completely agree - maybe not quite for the other metals, like tin and such... But bronze, iron, and steel are definitely a must.

Maybe even a way to craft recurved bows at some point? It's hardly advanced tech, composite recurved bows made from hardwood, leather, and sinew were being used by the grecians and turks even before the rise of the holy roman empire. Obviously recurved bows would deal a tiny bit more damage and have a MUCH longer effective range. Not sure how you'd go about crafting one though, if anyone's got any ideas...

[letalhell 8]

The 0-tier should be wood arrow. 3 sticks of wood in a row and the use of a knife or even a axe to make it sharp.

For damage progression.

Wood - 1 damage(1.5 crit)

Stone - 1.5(2 crit)

Flint - 2(2.5 crit)

Low-Metal(tin, zinc, copper, bismuth) - 3(3.5 crit)

Mid-Metals(Iron, any other?) 4.5(5 crit)

Low Alloys(Brass, Bronze, basicly tier 2 metals) - also 4.5(5 crit)

Mid alloys(Steel, black steel) - 5(5.5 crit)

High Alloys(Blue and red steel) - 6(6.5 crit)

Also, the bows should influnece in the damage, while a wood-cheap bow would add no damage, a composite hard-wood bow would add up to 2~3 damage. And a crossbow(advanced stuff) would add 5 damage but have a limited range) and use darts insets of arrows.

[Peffern 94]

that is way overpowered. as best i can understand, the tech tree is parabolic, meaning that the jump from stone to tin is much greater than the jump from black steel to blue steel. In vanilla a bow on crit does 5 damage, so since that's a twohit kill it is too overpowered and you suggest making it easier? 2-3 damage is a lot. I think maybe a composite bow would fire further. maybe that's it.

[RogueHydra 32]

How about all the metal arrowheads do roughly the same damage (3 or 4?) So all the metals are equal and you don't go hunting for a specific metal just for arrowheads when you have piles of a lower quality metal sitting around because you don't need it anymore. Composite bow could increase damage by 1 or 1.5 too maybe.

[letalhell 8]

@Peffern

But those are end-game alloys, not any cheap metal or flint arrowhead, all the others(iron and downwards) are less powerfull than the regular vanilla arrow.

@RogueHydra

That wouldn't change anything, only that you could make arrows out of more materials.

[Peffern 94]

@letalhell sorry. I meant nerf or remove vanilla arrows.

@RogueHydra I assume that there would be some benefit to better arrows.

[JDCollie 66]

@OP

I REALLY like the idea of having arrow quality increase the likelyhood of the arrow being retrievable. It prevents "power-creep" as metal tier increases while still providing a quantifiable return for using better materials.

More than anything, the fact that you cannot get back your arrows is what stops me from using them.

I'd also be interested in a fletching dynamic. Creating arrows isn't as simple as tying some feathers to a pointy stick. Granted, it may just be adding needless complexity, but if there were a way to make it meaningful, I'd love to see fletching, and maybe even a bowyer added.

[Peffern 94]

Power creep?

[JDCollie 66]

Power creep?

"power creep" is a trend in games where of weapons or items become more and more powerful (to an unbalanced degree) with each higher tier.

The result is that, if you want your mobs to still be at least a little challenging to a player with top tier gear, you must make those mobs so powerful that early tier players will be utterly crushed by them.

(The Equivalent Exchange mod suffers from this. Can you imagine mobs capable of providing a challenge to players with Red Matter Katars?)

The best way to avoid power creep is to provide utility or resource benefits for higher tier items, rather than simply increasing the damage.

[letalhell 8]

"power creep" is a trend in games where of weapons or items become more and more powerful (to an unbalanced degree) with each higher tier.

The result is that, if you want your mobs to still be at least a little challenging to a player with top tier gear, you must make those mobs so powerful that early tier players will be utterly crushed by them.

(The Equivalent Exchange mod suffers from this. Can you imagine mobs capable of providing a challenge to players with Red Matter Katars?)

The best way to avoid power creep is to provide utility or resource benefits for higher tier items, rather than simply increasing the damage.

But the human kind only had troubles with animals and stuffs in the begining, after they mastered how to craft armor and good quality metals animals posed no threat.

But I see your point, perhaps if mobs spawned with relation to the metal tier you are? Llike a dragon would only show when you have blue steel.

[Peffern 94]

No that last problem is terrible. It should be that the dragon lair/ dragons are "optional" meaning avoidable, until the player wants to tangle with the dragon. I don't want it to be forced it should be up to the player if they want to attack the dragon with tin boots.

[Ryuugumo 88]

Then why not leave arrows the way they are and simply add new ways to get them. Have wood, stone, flint, and metal all allow you to make arrows. Just have them produce different amounts. I.E. wood - 1, stone - 2, flint - 4, metal (of various types) 10-40 (depending on the type of metal used.) These are figurative numbers so don't complain about them, I'm just using them to explain my idea. No need to do anything more than the crafting table for any of these except metal and you could easily put plans in for those. When you use any of those matierals in the crafting table the recipe you use would translate it into numbers. So wood is the regular recipe without the tip, stone, flint, and metal are still the same recipe shape, but metal is the only thing you have to work with before you tie them together on the crafting table.

[Peffern 94]

That doesn't make any sense.

[Lumireaver 101]

That doesn't make any sense.

It's a gameplay thing, and unless there are stronger monsters to facilitate the need for stronger weapons, I think it's the most sensible solution.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

It's a gameplay thing, and unless there are stronger monsters to facilitate the need for stronger weapons, I think it's the most sensible solution.

I think the most sensible solution has already been stated - better materials means better chance of retrieval, instead of higher damage