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-Foxley46-

Things you think should be added to agriculture.

168 posts in this topic

Sorry for my briefness.

In real life, hunter gatherers needed food so they farmed. UNTIL they started farming, they did not have enough time to make a mill to grind wheat into flour, so they used hand tools.

If you wanted to farm but not make a giant mill in TFC, then you would use simple hand tools. It gives you some choice.

As a side, you shouldn't be able to advance into any metals until you have food, and therefore you probably shouldn't be able to make a mill either.

It does fit with the technological progression of TFC.

Sorry again. I would like to tell you that this message is not meant to sound angry.

Simple solution: construction of mills should require materials that can only be acquired via basic agriculture.

They could be fairly simple to get, just needed in sufficient quantities to make anything less than a real farm inconvenient for their acquisition. For instance, maybe they could flax rope to tie stuff together (that is, until you have metal to make nails). Flax needn't be hard to get, you will just need quite a bit of it.

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Simple solution: construction of mills should require materials that can only be acquired via basic agriculture.

They could be fairly simple to get, just needed in sufficient quantities to make anything less than a real farm inconvenient for their acquisition. For instance, maybe they could flax rope to tie stuff together (that is, until you have metal to make nails). Flax needn't be hard to get, you will just need quite a bit of it.

Farming progresses like metalurgy, and they are seperate.

I like it.

Now I'll try to think out a further tree of progression from gathering to advanced irrigation and crop rotation! :D

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I agree with the last post, but it doesn't have to be so clear cut. If hunger is fixed so you have to eat regularly and frequently, and a mill required several components like moderately high metals, then the work required to with your way up the tech tree to the point would require enough food to make *primitive* agriculture a necessity.

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I agree with the last post, but it doesn't have to be so clear cut. If hunger is fixed so you have to eat regularly and frequently, and a mill required several components like moderately high metals, then the work required to with your way up the tech tree to the point would require enough food to make *primitive* agriculture a necessity.

Well of course, you can't spend long periods in the mines without having to come back up for food. If certain metals could only be found below certain depths then you would have to dig deep shafts for them, it would take longer till you could get back up and get food, so you'd want a more steady supply.
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@EternalUndeath

No. No no no. You can use a hammer or a manual grinder. It's just inefficient and slow, just like a firepit compared to a bloomery/forge.

Hammer and stone? Pssh, you want a Quern. Yeeaaaah baby. B)
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Hammer and stone? Pssh, you want a Quern. Yeeaaaah baby. B)

we all got pwned! :o

:P

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Well of course, you can't spend long periods in the mines without having to come back up for food. If certain metals could only be found below certain depths then you would have to dig deep shafts for them, it would take longer till you could get back up and get food, so you'd want a more steady supply.

Additionally, bread loaves should not stack, or at least not very high, and the bread produced from the basic recipe should fill far less of the hunger bar than bread produced in the mill. That way there is incentive to progress beyond those basic farming techniques.

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the bread produced from the basic recipe should fill far less of the hunger bar than bread produced in the mill.

Nope.

Instead, the mill is more efficient at processing wheat; therefore, you get more bread instead of more hunger per bread.

Crop rotation is a technique that makes it so you don't need to fertilize, or at least not as much.

I think irrigation should be optional and not just "build your farm next to a body of water". you would need to dig long ditches to hold enough water to water a large field (yes, farming does need to take up more acreage.) or you can just let the rain do the watering. The soil should be able to stay moist for a long time, but irrigation would be nessisary for plants with high water needs or dry areas.

You need to plow and hoe you fields! Hoeing and plowing are to remove weeds growing in your fields, which would use up nutrients that would otherwise be used by your crop.

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Nope.

Instead, the mill is more efficient at processing wheat; therefore, you get more bread instead of more hunger per bread.

My intent was not to convey what happens in reality, but rather to create a good reason for players to make a mill. If the mill provides better bread, rather than just more bread, then it is providing a service that no basic farm, regardless of its size, can replicate. :)

You need to plow and hoe you fields! Hoeing and plowing are to remove weeds growing in your fields, which would use up nutrients that would otherwise be used by your crop.

Perhaps weeds could occasionally appear on already planted tiles, and only a hoe could remove them without destroying the wheat already growing? Failing to do so would result in the wheat getting choked out by the weeds, and the weeds quickly spreading to surrounding tiles.
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My intent was not to convey what happens in reality, but rather to create a good reason for players to make a mill. If the mill provides better bread, rather than just more, then it is providing a service that no basic farm, regardless of its size, can replicate. :)

Personally, I wish all hunger fill was capped at 1 1/2, because while filling food can be good sometimes, at 1 1/2 if you eat to perfectly fill up every time you can, then the only time where you arn't regening is when your eating.
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Personally, I wish all hunger fill was capped at 1 1/2, because while filling food can be good sometimes, at 1 1/2 if you eat to perfectly fill up every time you can, then the only time where you arn't regening is when your eating.

Perhaps better bread could fill the saturation level much more significantly than normal bread does?
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Perhaps better bread could fill the saturation level much more significantly than normal bread does?

Now THAT would be useful. Great idea!
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@EternalUndeath

No. No no no. You can use a hammer or a manual grinder. It's just inefficient and slow, just like a firepit compared to a bloomery/forge.

Instead, the mill is more efficient at processing wheat; therefore, you get more bread instead of more hunger per bread.

Actually that's what I was thinking more along the lines of.

By hand, 1 wheat = 1 flour.

Toss it in a mill, and 1 wheat = 4 flour, or something along those lines

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Actually that's what I was thinking more along the lines of.

By hand, 1 wheat = 1 flour.

Toss it in a mill, and 1 wheat = 4 flour, or something along those lines

The problem I still have with this approach is that there is no real incentive to make a mill. It's nice that you can get more wheat and all, but by the time you actually have the resources to build a mill, you will probably already have a huge farm up and running. I can see people appreciating the reduction in effort such a mill would provide, but I personally wouldn't bother with it if all it did was multiply my grain a bit.
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The problem I still have with this approach is that there is no real incentive to make a mill. It's nice that you can get more wheat and all, but by the time you actually have the resources to build a mill, you will probably already have a huge farm up and running. I can see people appreciating the reduction in effort such a mill would provide, but I personally wouldn't bother with it if all it did was multiply my grain a bit.

Well presumably it could perform more functions than wheat grinding. This would be a case of 'add first, make it do shit later'. Although the fact that it can multiply wheat drops would make it already more useful than many of the things added to the mod so far

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I did not know English, because I'm from Russia, but try using a translator to talk with you. I have a question. Will there be added to the potatoes? I just would be very interesting dig the ground in late spring and plant the potatoes, then it spud in mid-summer and early autumn to dig and collect it)))))

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I did not know English, because I'm from Russia, but try using a translator to talk with you. I have a question. Will there be added to the potatoes? I just would be very interesting dig the ground in late spring and plant the potatoes, then it spud in mid-summer and early autumn to dig and collect it)))))

Potatoes would be interesting. It's a fairly simple and hardy plant. I like it.
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This kind of replies to an earlier post about crop rotation. A simple way to add soil fertility to the mod would be to have it scale with darkness of the soil. I know this isn't exactly true to life, but it would give an easy means of implementing and a visual means of checking in game. As the soil loses natural fertility it'll get lighter and provide less yield, with the extreme being that if allowed to get too light some may convert to sand blocks.

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This kind of replies to an earlier post about crop rotation. A simple way to add soil fertility to the mod would be to have it scale with darkness of the soil. I know this isn't exactly true to life, but it would give an easy means of implementing and a visual means of checking in game. As the soil loses natural fertility it'll get lighter and provide less yield, with the extreme being that if allowed to get too light some may convert to sand blocks.

I think that this fits well with the mod, and would be easy to understand and visually notice. You pretty much implied it, but I would add fertilization (whatever we end up using to make it happen) makes it get darker. I don't know for sure, but it sounds easy to code at least.
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I think that this fits well with the mod, and would be easy to understand and visually notice. You pretty much implied it, but I would add fertilization (whatever we end up using to make it happen) makes it get darker. I don't know for sure, but it sounds easy to code at least.

You can fertilize by either growing beans or adding fertilizers.
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The problem I still have with this approach is that there is no real incentive to make a mill. It's nice that you can get more wheat and all, but by the time you actually have the resources to build a mill, you will probably already have a huge farm up and running. I can see people appreciating the reduction in effort such a mill would provide, but I personally wouldn't bother with it if all it did was multiply my grain a bit.

A big farm would be difficult to manage if land fertility were added. It would also be difficult to manage without an irrigation system if plants suck up finite water. If a mill makes 1 wheat into 4 flour, then you could have a farm 1/4th the size with the same yield. Let's also remember how important yield is to SMP. The main problem i've been having in SMP is food, we've been surviving mainly off of rotten meat, some fish, and what little food we can raise. Having something that would quadruple our bread yield would make all the difference when we're stuck on a mountain top with two cows and a small farm.
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The problem I still have with this approach is that there is no real incentive to make a mill. It's nice that you can get more wheat and all, but by the time you actually have the resources to build a mill, you will probably already have a huge farm up and running. I can see people appreciating the reduction in effort such a mill would provide, but I personally wouldn't bother with it if all it did was multiply my grain a bit.

So make it take a lot of flour to do anything useful.

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im sure bioxx is planning some of these, but id like to see more staple crops, like Rye, Corn, Rice, Beans, etc.

Fermentables would be nice too, beer, wine, and most of all, Cheese!!!!1!

maybe some lettuce, tomatoes, and onions so i can make sammiches too ;)

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im sure bioxx is planning some of these, but id like to see more staple crops, like Rye, Corn, Rice, Beans, etc.

Fermentables would be nice too, beer, wiine, and most of all, Cheese!!!!1!

maybe some lettuce, tomatoes, and onions so i can make sammiches too ;)

Wine <3

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Wine <3

With the addition of Cheese, wine and grapes, it would be possible to host a kind of middle aged party in minecraft. All we need now are in game "Grey's Anatomy" box sets, coffee tables and people to look down on :L :L :L

Edit: Scrap that, just re-add tesctificates, we can be the racist kind of middle aged people. (I worked in a bar full of them, my cynicism knows no bounds :P)

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